List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Watch

[JasRulz63]

Current no. of players on the list
Senior list - 34 (2-4 free*)
Rookie (Cat A) - 4 (0-2 free*)
Rookie (Cat B) - 2 (0 free)
Maximum list size of 44. Up to 36-38 senior list, 4-6 category A rookie list and 2 category B rookie list.
* Total of four list spots available, with a minimum of 2 senior list spots needing to be utilised.

List changes
IN: Daniher, Cockatoo, Uosis (R)
OUT: Christensen, Wooller, Allison (R), Skinner (R), Eagles (R), C. Lyons (R), Martin, Witherden, Cox, Hinge.
PROMOTED: Fullarton.
ROOKIED: Birchall, Mathieson, Ballendan.

Current picks
25, 53, 58, 69, 70
(2021 - 1st (MEL), 1st, 3rd (WCE), 3rd, 4th (MEL), 4th (COLL), 5th)

Spoiler: 2020 draft order

Useful links
2020 trade news compendium
List changes, contract status and key dates
2020 draft discussion thread

 

[mpal6]

Small chance IMO. Geelong can trump our bid if they're interested. I reckon 7 will go to Essendon for Saad with a pick Essendon get for Daniher going the other way.

If Geelong are looking to land Jeremy Cameron, GWS could force a trade rather than take Band 1 compo. Geelong has 3 first rounders and GWS can definitely squeeze one or two out of them. I'm hoping we are the ones left standing with 2 picks so we can help Carlton and get 7.

 

[Scubaveg]

Yep, Daniher has made it abundantly clear that he wants OUT of the Bombers, no way they would re draft him.

Can’t see them matching either. They’ll posture to try and force a trade outcome and then match if they believe a trade outcome is achievable. We just hold our nerve, Jo has said he wants out two years in a row. There’s a system for compensation, you get that or GTFO.


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[beatnik]

PSD is no threat as Essendon has a pick before ours, if they have already matched our offer to force a trade.

Seriously the PSD threat only really has merit if you hold a top 3 pick, and any club before you is unlikely to cut your lunch.

not so sure about that - the Suns had a pick before Carlton last year but didn't pick Jack martin

...plus, as Sam Edmund says here:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/08/adam-saad-prepared-to-enter-the-draft-to-leave-essendon/

"While other clubs will have earlier picks than the Blues, they are the only club Saad is willing to meet with and potential poachers aren’t going to splash on a five-year, $650,000 deal without sitting down with Saad and completing a medical, especially when the defender doesn’t want to play there."


that being said, I hope it doesn't get to that...given the history, all parties should work towards letting Daniher switch to the employer of his choice

 

[BangyBangy]

Can’t see them matching either. They’ll posture to try and force a trade outcome and then match if they believe a trade outcome is achievable. We just hold our nerve, Jo has said he wants out two years in a row. There’s a system for compensation, you get that or GTFO.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Just on that. If you pay attention to the way the media release from the Lions yesterday was worded, it subtly indicates that too. Nothing as over the top as the 'I'll go to the PSD' news story today from Saad, but I picked up on it when I read it. Didn't mention Essendon at all. Maybe just me.

The Club will work its way through the process of Free Agency with the AFL during the Free Agency trade period

 

[Scubaveg]

Just on that. If you pay attention to the way the media release from the Lions yesterday was worded, it subtly indicates that too. Nothing as over the top as the 'I'll go to the PSD' news story today from Saad, but I picked up on it when I read it. Didn't mention Essendon at all. Maybe just me.

The Club will work its way through the process of Free Agency with the AFL during the Free Agency trade period

Yes noticed that too. At the time
I thought noting of it, then over the hour or so after reading it thought with the AFL, no mention of Essendon. I don’t think the club has any intention of getting caught up in Dodo’s rubbish.


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[3KZ is Football]

Yes been saying I think Witho goes IF Birchall extends. I wonder how long Payne will wait around, especially if Lester is resigned as Adams stills has two years. Can't help but think if Payne had been given first crack instead of Lester he would very likely be best 22 by now. Matho might also consider his options and Ely must be thinking if he is going to get an opportunity, Hinge also might explore going back to SA, so yes some players should feel confident based on Keys and Walker that they would perform a role at another club

We can expect movement from some players who are “on the outer” at present.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I personally see Witherden as profoundly tradeable.

I think he is a more limited player than others seem to. His kicking is very good, but not amazing, and its effectiveness is somewhat diminished by his slow decision making and flawed defensive game.

He’s just not a very dynamic player, quite one dimensional and a below average athlete by AFL standards.

 

[JasRulz63]

I personally see Witherden as profoundly tradeable.

I think he is a more limited player than others seem to. His kicking is very good, but not amazing, and its effectiveness is somewhat diminished by his slow decision making and flawed defensive game.

He’s just not a very dynamic player, quite one dimensional and a below average athlete by AFL standards.

I feel a bit that way too. I think with his skill set, his composure and decision making has to be very good to hold down a best 22 spot in competing side, with good defensive positioning to negate his lack of speed. Birchall this season is a good example of this (played on Aarts/Castagna on Friday), who's been in 14 one-on-one's this year and lost one.

He reminds me of Docherty when he first got to us, but without the pace and run-and-carry ability that made Docherty such an exciting prospect.

 

[Sanchez365]

I personally see Witherden as profoundly tradeable.

I think he is a more limited player than others seem to. His kicking is very good, but not amazing, and its effectiveness is somewhat diminished by his slow decision making and flawed defensive game.

He’s just not a very dynamic player, quite one dimensional and a below average athlete by AFL standards.

Harden, but true. I still think he could cover a similar position to a Birchall, who is not overly.quick either. But he really needs to develop elite kicking, and he has a way to go to get there imo.

 

[pod17]

I personally see Witherden as profoundly tradeable.

I think he is a more limited player than others seem to. His kicking is very good, but not amazing, and its effectiveness is somewhat diminished by his slow decision making and flawed defensive game.

He’s just not a very dynamic player, quite one dimensional and a below average athlete by AFL standards.

Spot on. He is a nice kick, but his decision-making has been well and truly overstated by some. Birchall for example - who has rightly taken his spot - knows when to bite off the dangerous kicks and when to be conservative.

Witherden doesn't yet (and may never) possess that judgement - from memory I recall a few howlers this year where he took the corridor only to hand it straight back to the opposition in a dangerous spot.

 

[pulpdriver]

I personally see Witherden as profoundly tradeable.

I think he is a more limited player than others seem to. His kicking is very good, but not amazing, and its effectiveness is somewhat diminished by his slow decision making and flawed defensive game.

He’s just not a very dynamic player, quite one dimensional and a below average athlete by AFL standards.

This feels harsh initially but it's realistic.

I'd still like to keep Witho and believe he has growth in his game, although having said this I've been doing some dummy 22s for next year after Joe has nominated us and have noticed that Witho hasn't actually been included in any of them beyond emergency.

It is true he is presently limited defensively and he will never have speed or athleticism to make up for that. Any defensive abilities he can offer need to be through reading the play, clever positioning and initiating offensive plays from defence, all of which he is not very good at. He is yappy/pointy but I've never been close enough to him to discern what he's saying and how valuable it is, though considering he's not in the team it's probably not missed.
His kicking, whilst technically great, can be marred by poor decision making and his turnovers per game isn't great. At this stage he's an effective kick, more often than not through short chips or switch kicks, but not a constructive kick which is much more preferable.
He is good at getting himself into attacking position at half forward and his inside 50s by position are high but despite this his scoring involvements aren't anything noteworthy and if we don't score a goal he often gets exposed on the turnover.

In his favour is that kicking proficiency, his ability to find the footy and a pretty good head on his shoulders. Many of his decencies could be improved with greater experience and education and he seems to have the ability and desire to learn. With what he has, if there was anyone to model his game on it's Shannon Hurn, who was never all that quick and only tightened up his one on one defensive stuff in the last 3 years, though has been a far better attacking play-setter from half back for like 8 years. To do this he needs to develop his reading of the game, be more measured and constructive in his kicking as well as get a lot stronger physically.

His deficiencies are pronounced and I don't know if this spiel is just me talking myself into thinking we should keep him based on his strengths but I would still rather keep him than actively seek a trade. I can definitely see him getting superseded within a year though equally wouldn't be surprised if he's locked into the best 22. Tough. If he does decide he wants to go I wouldn't stand in his way.

 

[The Stid]

Where’s Cedric Cox at? I see he’s OOC and didn’t get much game time this season (if at all?) I liked him in his draft year but haven’t followed his career since. What’s the knock on him?

Hope you guys don’t mind the intrusion.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Seems to me the easiest way out with Daniher and the Bombers is to sign him on a shorter contract with extra cash to ensure they get band one and pick 8. A nudge nudge wink wink deal so Essendon know we are helping them and Daniher knows he will resign in a few years on less. We may help one of our lesser lights get some games and add them to the deal.

 

[dlanod]

Where’s Cedric Cox at? I see he’s OOC and didn’t get much game time this season (if at all?) I liked him in his draft year but haven’t followed his career since. What’s the knock on him?

Hope you guys don’t mind the intrusion.

Delisting candidate or token trade if someone wants him. Definitely does some nice stuff but not consistently, others have gone passed him, and the list squeeze wouldn't help his case.

 

[Nuggo]

With Witherden I would like to see what he got after spending time learning from Birch.

 

[davemc_lions]

Where’s Cedric Cox at? I see he’s OOC and didn’t get much game time this season (if at all?) I liked him in his draft year but haven’t followed his career since. What’s the knock on him?

Hope you guys don’t mind the intrusion.

Had some family issues last year which interrupted his season.
Not seen the magoos this year, we drafted Coleman in who played 2 years for us NEAFL who I assume went past him.
Lack of seeing the non 22 play makes things really hard to judge this year.

 

[davemc_lions]

With Witherden I would like to see what he got after spending time learning from Birch.

I am not in the he is done camp.. Only young.
His kicking which is his strength although I will add he does some silly cute kicks that do not come off.
Slow to pull the trigger as well under pressure and options go. Birchall you saw a few times Sat night quick kick found target under pressure.
He only 21 a big preseason with some conditioning coach get is aerobic strength up.
Fagan uses peoples strengths rather than weaknesses.

Starc kicking seems good not sure he will be our second option. Hinge one game did not look bad.
I worry we need another Rich more, very rarely gets beaten one on one. he was BOG for me Sat night.
Although lack of leg speed for Rich can show like Witho and Birchall. Why we cannot play all 3.
Leads to Answerth can they spend some time with his disposal? has speed and good defensively.

 

[X AE A12]

Witho going would be a net loss regardless imo. We have put heaps of effort into him because we know his potential. Are Prior or Smith able to come in if Birchall breaks down

 

[Nunez]

Witherden is a limited athlete, but his weapon (kicking) is very good. Unfortunately for him though, he can play one role and one role only - Birchalls distribution role. If we did trade him I'd be okay with that, but would rather keep him as I can see him playing Birchalls role in 2021. He wasn't afforded the luxury of a run of games when low on confidence as Ah Chee and Rayner were, and think he needs a big off season and a run of games to find his best form.

 

[X AE A12]

Witherden is a limited athlete, but his weapon (kicking) is very good. Unfortunately for him though, he can play one role and one role only - Birchalls distribution role. If we did trade him I'd be okay with that, but would rather keep him as I can see him playing Birchalls role in 2021. He wasn't afforded the luxury of a run of games when low on confidence as Ah Chee and Rayner were, and think he needs a big off season and a run of games to find his best form.

This, we need Witho at least till the end of Birchalls stint with us, if he is then competing with Prior and Smith for 1sts time and wants to spread his wings after that then no hard feelings

 

[Dalions]

Witherden is a limited athlete, but his weapon (kicking) is very good. Unfortunately for him though, he can play one role and one role only - Birchalls distribution role. If we did trade him I'd be okay with that, but would rather keep him as I can see him playing Birchalls role in 2021. He wasn't afforded the luxury of a run of games when low on confidence as Ah Chee and Rayner were, and think he needs a big off season and a run of games to find his best form.

He is kind of one of those players who finds it hard to play on instinct and is a little slow with his decision making at times as a result.
You are right though, more games in the high pressure environment of today’s footy would help him no end.
I am hoping we do not move him on because Birch will not be around forever.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Noble will be looking at the Daniher trade from all possible angles. One angle that will limit the cost to us of making that deal is trading out players with some present value who are not seen as long term options. Witho is the most obvious example. I would say he is a better than even chance to be traded, either as part of that deal or otherwise.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Witherden is a limited athlete, but his weapon (kicking) is very good. Unfortunately for him though, he can play one role and one role only - Birchalls distribution role. If we did trade him I'd be okay with that, but would rather keep him as I can see him playing Birchalls role in 2021. He wasn't afforded the luxury of a run of games when low on confidence as Ah Chee and Rayner were, and think he needs a big off season and a run of games to find his best form.

Strongly disagree. I have no doubt Witho will be a good footballer given time and experience. It will be Brisbane's loss should he depart the club.

 

[Gadzorks]

With Witherden I would like to see what he got after spending time learning from Birch.

He played with hodge. Gotta think hodge is at least as good as birch as a learning opportunity.

I know Birchall is different type of player then hodge, but I think hodge is able to teach any defensive role, and probably every forward role. So footy smart.

 

[pod17]

Strongly disagree. I have no doubt Witho will be a good footballer given time and experience. It will be Brisbane's loss should he depart the club.

Curious as to what other role you think he might be able to play? He isn't suited to the lockdown defender role (lacking pace and strength to impact the contest), and in my opinion could not play on a wing or high half forward given he doesn't have the aerobic capacity to work both ways. Do not get me wrong, Witherden is AFL standard, and he might go on to fill a need at another club that requires a distributor, but he is replaceable given who we have on our list.

Additionally, I thought there were a couple of players that clearly struggled to adjust to the pace in last year's finals series which highlighted some deficiencies they had to work on. It might be harsh but I thought Bailey was one of them. However, he obviously worked hard over the summer on clean hands and knowing when to back his pace in and is now thriving. Witherden was exposed (quite publicly as it turned out) for his lack of pace and aerobic fitness and his decision-making under pressure (including when to impact the contest and when not to). 12 months on, from the games he played this year, I don't think he has addressed any of these sufficiently to warrant a spot in a team that is about to play in a prelim.

Having said all of that I agree with Nuggo's point that it would be good to see what he has learnt from Birchall before we move him out, and to give him one more pre season to see how hungry he is to work on his game, his fitness and ultimately win his spot back in the team.