2021 best 22 (and sub)

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Is it unfair to compare Rayner to Brennan? Rayner works harder and does the one percenters but Brennan could influence games more early in his career

I wonder how Fagan would have handled Brennan
 
I am a big fan of Rayner, but he is still at risk of becoming the next Colin Sylvia IMO. Someone with amazing potential and can have amazing moments in games, but never dominates a full game due to work ethic (i.e. fitness).

I agree with Sizematters, Rayner is exactly the player we need for the midfield next year. A contested ball beast who can play forward. I would be happy if we tailored his game around how Richmond uses Dusty (i.e. defensively he doesn't do any running). But from afar it seems he isn't at Dusty's fitness levels yet even...
 
Next year another pre season you hope Rayner moves up a level.
So much talent although like a few of our talented players can go missing in games.
 

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I agree too, the way he can attract multiple opp players and still release the ball to the right option is an asset, and when he gets free and clear himself he can deliver expertly to a good lead, or have a ping on the run and score, can block as mentioned, has improved decision making so can be a playmaker, and could probably find himself on a mismatch at times to take a mark on a centering ball
 
I'm thinking Robbo could pass the batten onto T. Berry.
He's quick , aggressive, great at running in defense and can get his own contested ball when it's near him.
Only thing with him this year is he was prone to bang it on the boot, factor taking over Mitch's role that would suit perfectly.
He would need to improve his weapons and disposal , but a player with his speed and aggression should be in the team. Wing role.
The other fringe player is Hinge.
Sounds like I'm a little outside of most people , I thought he showed a great deal in his what two games this year or was it 1?
Good size with agility , could he play the wing if we are looking for a taller player.
Not sure how fast he is , we need to add pace out there.
Otherwise he played his role in the forwards better than some this year when the opportunity was there.
 
Kernel Kurtz said:
I'm thinking Robbo could pass the batten onto T. Berry.
He's quick , aggressive, great at running in defense and can get his own contested ball when it's near him.
Only thing with him this year is he was prone to bang it on the boot, factor taking over Mitch's role that would suit perfectly.
He would need to improve his weapons and disposal , but a player with his speed and aggression should be in the team. Wing role.
The other fringe player is Hinge.
Sounds like I'm a little outside of most people , I thought he showed a great deal in his what two games this year or was it 1?
Good size with agility , could he play the wing if we are looking for a taller player.
Not sure how fast he is , we need to add pace out there.
Otherwise he played his role in the forwards better than some this year when the opportunity was there.
Click to expand...

I think Berry is at least another season away from being best 22 but it's hard to tell without NEAFL reports
 
That 2017 draft was a really interesting one.
2017 AFL Draft
RoundPickClubPlayer
11Brisbane LionsCam Rayner
12Fremantle DockersAndrew Brayshaw
13Carlton BluesPaddy Dow
14North Melbourne KangaroosLuke Davies-Uniacke
15Fremantle DockersAdam Cerra
16Collingwood MagpiesJaidyn Stephenson
17St Kilda SaintsHunter Clark
18St Kilda SaintsNick Coffield
19Western BulldogsAaron Naughton
110Carlton BluesLochie O’Brien
111GWS GiantsAiden Bonar
112Adelaide CrowsDarcy Fogarty
113West Coast EaglesJarrod Brander
114Sydney SwansMatthew Ling
115Brisbane LionsZac Bailey
116Western BulldogsEd Richards
117Richmond TigersJack Higgins
118Brisbane LionsBrandon Starcevic
119Gold Coast SunsWil Powell
220Richmond TigersCallum Coleman-Jones
221West Coast EaglesOscar Allen
222Geelong CatsLachlan Fogarty

Not too many have come on quickly. LDU is just starting to fire. Hunter Clark is becoming a player, as is Cerra. Brayshaw’s probably the best thus far. Dow has disappointed but Bluebaggers hope for an improvement; with O’Brien they’re philosophical. Stephenson has had an ordinary year but he had glandular fever pre-season.Naughton is loved at the Bullies but injuries have hampered his progress. And on it goes.
I think we need to cut Rayner some slack.
 
Dom PC said:
I am a big fan of Rayner, but he is still at risk of becoming the next Colin Sylvia IMO. Someone with amazing potential and can have amazing moments in games, but never dominates a full game due to work ethic (i.e. fitness).

I agree with Sizematters, Rayner is exactly the player we need for the midfield next year. A contested ball beast who can play forward. I would be happy if we tailored his game around how Richmond uses Dusty (i.e. defensively he doesn't do any running). But from afar it seems he isn't at Dusty's fitness levels yet even...
Click to expand...

It's easy to forget a couple of his moments of individual brilliance amongst all the talk about our goalkicking, the two that come to mind are the big mark and goal against GWS to win the game and the crucial long-running goal against Tigers in QF. He is a future matchwinner in the making for me.
 
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fugitive said:
It's easy to forget a couple of his moments of individual brilliance amongst all the talk about our goalkicking, the two that come to mind are the big mark and goal against GWS to win the game and the long-running goal against Tigers in QF. He is a future matchwinner in the making for me.
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As I said, he can produce some amazing moments in games and I certainly was referring to instances such as those. He could be a future match winner no doubt, but not at his current output level.

Right now he doesn't impact enough contests. We need him to be regularly getting 15-20 touches a game. Not 6-12 touches. That increase will come through some midfield time, which requires a certain level of fitness. I do worry he might not have the mental strength/discipline to develop that required level of fitness and he is hiding behind playing as a forward as an excuse to not push himself into developing a decent tank. I'd argue Fagan would be playing him in the midfield a lot more already if he had the tank for it (i.e. ideally he shouldn't be playing in the team as a pure forward who plays like 5% midfield time).
 
Dom PC said:
As I said, he can produce some amazing moments in games and I certainly was referring to instances such as those. He could be a future match winner no doubt, but not at his current output level.
Click to expand...
Do not disagree we have a lot of players who best and worst can be miles apart.
They need to lift.. It either come with time or we will move them out.
Cutler, Taylor and Walker examples last year all 3 can be great at times now elsewhere.

Gardiner an example.. 3-4 years back he had some bad games and narrowed that right down now.

I do worry our forward line has a few..
Charlie and McCarthy I say have more good then bad games
Hipwood I thought started turning the corner so his good vs bad closing

We hear McStay does weekly although seeing less of them the past few months.
Rayner as said can light it up for 2 goals then next game 2 touches
Our resting ruck can sometimes do nothing.

Our Mids as well Lachie been great so too Lyons
Clugga/Bailey had more good then bad.
Zorko/Berry/M Robbo up and down then CEY added there as well.
 
Cam Rayner will be fine, his endurance has improved significantly since 1st arriving, he wants success badly, he will work his backside off again this off season and spend more time in the midfield in 2021.
 
jackess said:
Is it unfair to compare Rayner to Brennan? Rayner works harder and does the one percenters but Brennan could influence games more early in his career

I wonder how Fagan would have handled Brennan
Click to expand...
Brennan used to played in the ruck, get injured and miss the rest of the season. All we had to do is not put a skinny recruit in harms way and Brennan might have been anything. Fagan could not handle Rayner that badly as it is impossible to do unless Stef retires and we play Rayner in the ruck.

God forbid.
 

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Brennan would get injured and miss the rest of the season even without playing in the ruck. IIRC the ruck injuries happened twice. There were a lot more soft tissue injuries that persisted for weeks past their original "return" date by comparison, and that was across the team as a whole - not just Brennan. :(

I wonder how he'd do under Fagan but even better how he'd do under our new medical team.
 
dlanod said:
Brennan would get injured and miss the rest of the season even without playing in the ruck. IIRC the ruck injuries happened twice. There were a lot more soft tissue injuries that persisted for weeks past their original "return" date by comparison, and that was across the team as a whole - not just Brennan. :(

I wonder how he'd do under Fagan but even better how he'd do under our new medical team.
Click to expand...
The season-ending 1-2 week quad injury.
 
SizeMatters said:
Brennan was a gun playing ruck. Just a shame his body couldn't hold up. He played a season or two and was fantastic. Could have been anything that bloke.
Click to expand...

He played a few games in '09 as a back-up ruck to Clark because of injuries to Charman and Leuenberger, but his best was definitely when he played through the middle as a ruck rover. His agility through traffic and his ability to tackle was mesmerizing as was his at times lackadaisical disposal.

Still up there as my favourite Lions player ever. Crazy.
 
FromOldFitzroy said:
That 2017 draft was a really interesting one.
2017 AFL Draft
RoundPickClubPlayer
11Brisbane LionsCam Rayner
12Fremantle DockersAndrew Brayshaw
13Carlton BluesPaddy Dow
14North Melbourne KangaroosLuke Davies-Uniacke
15Fremantle DockersAdam Cerra
16Collingwood MagpiesJaidyn Stephenson
17St Kilda SaintsHunter Clark
18St Kilda SaintsNick Coffield
19Western BulldogsAaron Naughton
110Carlton BluesLochie O’Brien
111GWS GiantsAiden Bonar
112Adelaide CrowsDarcy Fogarty
113West Coast EaglesJarrod Brander
114Sydney SwansMatthew Ling
115Brisbane LionsZac Bailey
116Western BulldogsEd Richards
117Richmond TigersJack Higgins
118Brisbane LionsBrandon Starcevic
119Gold Coast SunsWil Powell
220Richmond TigersCallum Coleman-Jones
221West Coast EaglesOscar Allen
222Geelong CatsLachlan Fogarty

Not too many have come on quickly. LDU is just starting to fire. Hunter Clark is becoming a player, as is Cerra. Brayshaw’s probably the best thus far. Dow has disappointed but Bluebaggers hope for an improvement; with O’Brien they’re philosophical. Stephenson has had an ordinary year but he had glandular fever pre-season.Naughton is loved at the Bullies but injuries have hampered his progress. And on it goes.
I think we need to cut Rayner some slack.
Click to expand...
It would be interesting to see how they all "stacked up" in the votes at this years Charlie.

Just had quick squizz.....Brayshaw 9 and Allen 5....the most
 
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DERRINALPHIL said:
Cam was better this year then last. I would have dropped him several times LAST YEAR if his selection was purely based on form. The issue I suppose is how much improvement does he have? I was hoping for him to become a star this year which did not happen.
Click to expand...
He has only turned 21 today. He plays one of the most difficult position on the field. Stuck in the middle of no mans land. His pressure efforts and 1%s were up massively this year. He is going to be a beast once he develops a bit more
 
B: Starcevich, Gardiner, Lester
HB: Rich, Andrews, Ah Chee
C: McCluggage, Lyons, Bailey
HF: Rayner, Hipwood, Zorko
FF: Cameron, Daniher, McCarthy
Ruck: McInerney, Neale, Berry

Bench: McStay, Coleman, Birchall/Hinge/Answerth, Robinson/Ellis-Yolmen

Emg: The other 2 of Birchall/Hinge/Answerth, the other one of Robinson/Ellis-Yolmen, Fullarton
 
dlanod said:
He played a few games in '09 as a back-up ruck to Clark because of injuries to Charman and Leuenberger, but his best was definitely when he played through the middle as a ruck rover. His agility through traffic and his ability to tackle was mesmerizing as was his at times lackadaisical disposal.

Still up there as my favourite Lions player ever. Crazy.
Click to expand...

I still rate him higher than most here. Did a lot of the dirty work he does not get credit for. Like the Rayner draft, there is no one else in his year that I would say he was a mistake.
 
LIONS08 said:
He has only turned 21 today. He plays one of the most difficult position on the field. Stuck in the middle of no mans land. His pressure efforts and 1%s were up massively this year. He is going to be a beast once he develops a bit more
Click to expand...

This is exactly it. The fact that he is a lot more consistent at impacting games when he gets those very few limited chances a game playing that position is very promising.

He will continue to build his tank and play more midfield minutes, but he isn't going to be a big numbers ball winning mid. He could be dusty like in being the bog with 20 touches and 2 goals though. He seems to love the big moments.
 
chopperduck said:
This is exactly it. The fact that he is a lot more consistent at impacting games when he gets those very few limited chances a game playing that position is very promising.

He will continue to build his tank and play more midfield minutes, but he isn't going to be a big numbers ball winning mid. He could be dusty like in being the bog with 20 touches and 2 goals though. He seems to love the big moments.
Click to expand...
We can dream. I suppose it's possible. He's surer when he gets near it than when he started out.
 
chopperduck said:
This is exactly it. The fact that he is a lot more consistent at impacting games when he gets those very few limited chances a game playing that position is very promising.

He will continue to build his tank and play more midfield minutes, but he isn't going to be a big numbers ball winning mid. He could be dusty like in being the bog with 20 touches and 2 goals though. He seems to love the big moments.
Click to expand...

If he gets his average touches per game up to 15 he will be a fantastic player. Every single touch he had in the finals turned to gold basically - 2 goal assists and and a goal v richmond, a goal and the torp to set up charlie's second in a well beaten team against the cats.

I just hope and pray he has a massive offseason and comes back even fitter. He's doing the hard stuff and winning groundballs, I'd just like to see him take some easy marks up the ground and get some cheap posessions because his ball use is quality.
 

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2021 best 22 (and sub)

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