Discussion 2021 General AFL Discussion

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plugger66 said:
Well that makes it true.
Click to expand...


11 players tested above normal levels. It was out there, should still be on the internet somewhere in old articles. I saw this one that is a pretty funny read.

Collingwood Magpies - Side-by-side in scandal

If there is a scandal in the AFL, you can be pretty sure that the Collingwood Magpies are involved in some way. Drugs, racism, or failing finals time, yep, side-by-side the black and white army will be there.
www.convictcreations.com

Not suprisingly, many players moved from alcohol to illicit drugs in the pursuit of a rap sheet. As a result, 11 Collingwood players tested positive to illicit drugs in the 2015 off season. As well as using illicit drugs, Collingwood also seemed to be fans of the performance enhancing variety. In 2013, Dean Robinson, architect of the Essendon supplement scandal, aired allegations that the Magpies' 2010 premiership against St Kilda came on the back of human growth hormone.
 
George said:
It's okay to make the argument that they were on a drug program based on this kind of stuff, whilst it's still speculation.

But to use win/loss records and on field results as a way to prove your point is stupid, and especially in the case of Collingwood in 2010 who only won 2 more games than the year prior.

If that is the baseline to start allegations of performance enhancements, then there would be clubs every single year that would fall into that category.
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If they were using small amounts it's probably not making them into the hulk overnight. Who knows what they did and what they got up to. They wouldn't be the first club or the last to cheat to win a premiership. Plenty of rumours that the Hawks were on something too. The 1980s WCE made the East German women's swimming team blush they were so blatant.
 
plugger66 said:
What I don’t get is even if all this crap is true which I highly doubt all it does is do your head in. We aren’t getting a flag. May as well bang your head against a wall for fun.
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I haven't thought about it for years. Can't imagine anyone actually still having a whinge about it. At some point I'll end up watching the replay of '09 and '10 like I did last year with '97. Takes a while to get to that point but it's not like it does my head in when stuff like this comes out, because if Collingwood were performance enhancing it didn't work very well and had no impact on the end result.

gringo2011 said:
If they were using small amounts it's probably not making them into the hulk overnight. Who knows what they did and what they got up to. They wouldn't be the first club or the last to cheat to win a premiership. Plenty of rumours that the Hawks were on something too. The 1980s WCE made the East German women's swimming team blush they were so blatant.
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Yeah but those rumours came from Dean Robinson who isn't exactly the most trustworthy source. Who cares anyway, it clearly didn't enhance their performance. We improved from 2019 to 2020 more than Collingwood from 2009 to 2010.
 

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gringo2011 said:
11 players tested above normal levels. It was out there, should still be on the internet somewhere in old articles. I saw this one that is a pretty funny read.

Collingwood Magpies - Side-by-side in scandal

If there is a scandal in the AFL, you can be pretty sure that the Collingwood Magpies are involved in some way. Drugs, racism, or failing finals time, yep, side-by-side the black and white army will be there.
www.convictcreations.com

Not suprisingly, many players moved from alcohol to illicit drugs in the pursuit of a rap sheet. As a result, 11 Collingwood players tested positive to illicit drugs in the 2015 off season. As well as using illicit drugs, Collingwood also seemed to be fans of the performance enhancing variety. In 2013, Dean Robinson, architect of the Essendon supplement scandal, aired allegations that the Magpies' 2010 premiership against St Kilda came on the back of human growth hormone.
Click to expand...
So illicit drugs means what. They had coke. And is it fact anyway? No. And 2015 means what? Nothing that’s what.
 
George said:
I haven't thought about it for years. Can't imagine anyone actually still having a whinge about it. At some point I'll end up watching the replay of '09 and '10 like I did last year with '97. Takes a while to get to that point but it's not like it does my head in when stuff like this comes out, because if Collingwood were performance enhancing it didn't work very well and had no impact on the end result.


Yeah but those rumours came from Dean Robinson who isn't exactly the most trustworthy source. Who cares anyway, it clearly didn't enhance their performance. We improved from 2019 to 2020 more than Collingwood from 2009 to 2010.
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Who's having a whinge, I'm just clarifying stuff that people have brought up. It came out in both newspapers in Melbourne after the GF when their tests came back reading that they were elevated but not over the legal HGH levels. It looks like the definitely took something but not in amounts likely to be illegal. Technically if proven they could have been stripped but they must have given a reasonable excuse that stopped it going any further.

Geelong look like they were using Essendon's people so to me it's very likely that Bomber bought them with him knowing the results.

It might not have given them a huge advantage but with a drawn game you only needed to be slightly less tired to stay in it or pull up ready to go in a rematch to have a distinct advantage. Anyway it doesn't matter, it's not going to change history now.
 
gringo2011 said:
Who's having a whinge, I'm just clarifying stuff that people have brought up. It came out in both newspapers in Melbourne after the GF when their tests came back reading that they were elevated but not over the legal HGH levels. It looks like the definitely took something but not in amounts likely to be illegal. Technically if proven they could have been stripped but they must have given a reasonable excuse that stopped it going any further.

Geelong look like they were using Essendon's people so to me it's very likely that Bomber bought them with him knowing the results.

It might not have given them a huge advantage but with a drawn game you only needed to be slightly less tired to stay in it or pull up ready to go in a rematch to have a distinct advantage. Anyway it doesn't matter, it's not going to change history now.
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I wasn't saying you were I was just making a general comment.

What would be the point in taking tiny doses of HGH? It had no effect.

As for the draw, if it went another 5 minutes we would've won that game. Not to mention coming back from 24 points down at half time. If anyone was on HGH it was us, haha.
 
gringo2011 said:
If they were using small amounts it's probably not making them into the hulk overnight. Who knows what they did and what they got up to. They wouldn't be the first club or the last to cheat to win a premiership. Plenty of rumours that the Hawks were on something too. The 1980s WCE made the East German women's swimming team blush they were so blatant.
Click to expand...
that is totally false .... i hate the WCE more than just about any other club but even i need to pull you up on this .. the WCE being bigger and stronger had more to do with the fact at that time the WCE were the first club to have their players as full time professional footballers so while vic clubs still had guys doing a 9-5 trade job monday to friday the WCE were in the gym every day they were .. it wasnt drugs or anything sinister it was just dedicated work to play footy better
 
George said:
I wasn't saying you were I was just making a general comment.

What would be the point in taking tiny doses of HGH? It had no effect.

As for the draw, if it went another 5 minutes we would've won that game. Not to mention coming back from 24 points down at half time. If anyone was on HGH it was us, haha.
Click to expand...

HGH is HUMAN growth hormone.
There is a level they have decided is normal and if you test above that you are deemed illegal.
If you are careful you can take enough to boost your level from where it is naturally, to a level just below where you will be deemed illegal.
Of course it does something.

Saints were running on guts and determination.
How did both teams back up the effort a week later?

What happened to Collingwood after there was a "focus" on "sports scientists".
 
SaintsSeptember said:
HGH is HUMAN growth hormone.
There is a level they have decided is normal and if you test above that you are deemed illegal.
If you are careful you can take enough to boost your level from where it is naturally, to a level just below where you will be deemed illegal.
Of course it does something.

Saints were running on guts and determination.
How did both teams back up the effort a week later?

What happened to Collingwood after there was a "focus" on "sports scientists".
Click to expand...
I know what HGH is.

You said they suddenly improved. Well, they didn't. They were top four the year before. They won two more games in 2010 than 2009. That doesn't scream drug program.

You say we ran on guts and determination in the 1st GF, but Collingwood weren't running on the same in the replay? Our players have publicly admitted they were completely stuffed after the draw.
 
George said:
I know what HGH is.

You said they suddenly improved. Well, they didn't. They were top four the year before. They won two more games in 2010 than 2009. That doesn't scream drug program.

You say we ran on guts and determination in the 1st GF, but Collingwood weren't running on the same in the replay? Our players have publicly admitted they were completely stuffed after the draw.
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And more so mentally after also losing a close grand final the year before. Or we can say the pies cheated. Now that makes me feel even worse. Just out of interest can anyone possibly tell me how we are going to play footy next year outside hubs. I can’t see how it’s possible.
 

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George said:
I know what HGH is.

You said they suddenly improved. Well, they didn't. They were top four the year before. They won two more games in 2010 than 2009. That doesn't scream drug program.

You say we ran on guts and determination in the 1st GF, but Collingwood weren't running on the same in the replay? Our players have publicly admitted they were completely stuffed after the draw.
Click to expand...
i think its easier for some to justify the loss in those g/f as some sort of cheating issue ...
if you look at the collingwood list there were not any players that suddenly went from zeros to heros , they had a very strong team in 09 and then in 10 they added to that strength (in part from taking Ball from us)...
they were even more dominant in 2011 but fell short of Geelong then started the decline .. this is a normal trend for teams to have a 4 -5 year window of dominance before falling away somewhat .. you can paint that as " What happened to Collingwood after there was a "focus" on "sports scientists". but really its just natural progression
 
st_trav_ofWA said:
that is totally false .... i hate the WCE more than just about any other club but even i need to pull you up on this .. the WCE being bigger and stronger had more to do with the fact at that time the WCE were the first club to have their players as full time professional footballers so while vic clubs still had guys doing a 9-5 trade job monday to friday the WCE were in the gym every day they were .. it wasnt drugs or anything sinister it was just dedicated work to play footy better
Click to expand...


Daniel Chick didn't think so as late as 2016. There has been rumours about it since they started. They looked like they were on roids even.
 
gringo2011 said:
Daniel Chick didn't think so as late as 2016. There has been rumours about it since they started. They looked like they were on roids even.
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I wouldn't taint a club because a group of idiots took drugs , every club most probably have a couple.
Just like our idiot President or CEO saying it was rife in our club even the coach at the time said some crap about it and Roo and Del arked up about it.
WCE came unstuck because the players are treated like celebrities and when they are out night clubbing with unscrupulous underworld types they were going to get caught which they did.
Anyone who knows Worsfold , Judd , Cox etc would take offense if they were linked to Cousins , Chick , Mainwaring or Kerr drug taking.
Do you group everyone who played under Bomber Thompson suspects.
We all know players do drugs at times , we just got one in the trade and of course Carlisle showed to the world.
Also testing for roids is a lot easy to detect than some party drugs because it stays in the system longer and if you take them and get caught you can wave your career away.
 
Premium said:
I wouldn't taint a club because a group of idiots took drugs , every club most probably have a couple.
Just like our idiot President or CEO saying it was rife in our club even the coach at the time said some crap about it and Roo and Del arked up about it.
WCE came unstuck because the players are treated like celebrities and when they are out night clubbing with unscrupulous underworld types they were going to get caught which they did.
Anyone who knows Worsfold , Judd , Cox etc would take offense if they were linked to Cousins , Chick , Mainwaring or Kerr drug taking.
Do you group everyone who played under Bomber Thompson suspects.
We all know players do drugs at times , we just got one in the trade and of course Carlisle showed to the world.
Also testing for roids is a lot easy to detect than some party drugs because it stays in the system longer and if you take them and get caught you can wave your career away.
Click to expand...
That's not really true though. It's not hard to modify the half life of steroids to make them fast acting and short lasting. This has been done with insulin analogues to treat different forms of diabetes.
 
Enclosed_Animal said:
Wow. Sydney having a lot of Coronavirus issues recently

www.news.com.au

Damning footage exposes AFL star

Footage has been released allegedly showing AFL star Sydney Stack in a brawl in Perth over the weekend as the 20-year-old was charged with breaching strict quarantine rules in Western Australia.
www.news.com.au www.news.com.au
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Jason Mifsud is now saying the WA police are racist becuase he thinks they have singled him out.

1608669733070.png
 
sammm said:
Jason Mifsud is now saying the WA police are racist becuase he thinks they have singled him out.

View attachment 1031572
Click to expand...

I've read several cases of imprisonment in W.A. for blatantly ignoring Covid restrictions.
In fact i believe home quarantine should be re-introduced, but you go to jail if you breach it.
Suddenly that trip to the cafe might not seem so important.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
I've read several cases of imprisonment in W.A. for blatantly ignoring Covid restrictions.
In fact i believe home quarantine should be re-introduced, but you go to jail if you breach it.
Suddenly that trip to the cafe might not seem so important.
Click to expand...


One was a guy who continually refused to abide by the quarantine restrictions. If it was a more high profile AFL player they probably wouldn't imprison them. Imagine if it was Jack Riewoldt instead. WA is a more racist state than Vic but there is also more indigenous social problems and it becomes an environment where it is easier to be racist, some of it because of individual behaviour. You wouldn't want to be an aboriginal facing the WA justice system that's for sure.

He's obviously got some issues and the whole entirety of disadvantage and generational disfunction that runs through some of the indigenous community makes it really hard for these kids. They generally have a really strong sense of family and community but often in communities that are totally unstructured and socially disadvantaged. Lots of the disadvantage started from institutionalisation of the grandparents and loss of cultural ties.

It's a ****ing mess that no-one really knows how to fix. Every footballer that reframes the way that indigenous kids see themselves should be congratulated because guys like Buddy and Goodes give them stable role models to aspire to. Over time that's the stuff that changes the way the wider community and the people see themselves.
 
gringo2011 said:
One was a guy who continually refused to abide by the quarantine restrictions. If it was a more high profile AFL player they probably wouldn't imprison them. Imagine if it was Jack Riewoldt instead. WA is a more racist state than Vic but there is also more indigenous social problems and it becomes an environment where it is easier to be racist, some of it because of individual behaviour. You wouldn't want to be an aboriginal facing the WA justice system that's for sure.

He's obviously got some issues and the whole entirety of disadvantage and generational disfunction that runs through some of the indigenous community makes it really hard for these kids. They generally have a really strong sense of family and community but often in communities that are totally unstructured and socially disadvantaged. Lots of the disadvantage started from institutionalisation of the grandparents and loss of cultural ties.

It's a ******* mess that no-one really knows how to fix. Every footballer that reframes the way that indigenous kids see themselves should be congratulated because guys like Buddy and Goodes give them stable role models to aspire to. Over time that's the stuff that changes the way the wider community and the people see themselves.
Click to expand...

Yeah sure , they also hate dentists.

www.watoday.com.au

Perth dentist jailed for treating patients while she should have been in quarantine

A Joondalup dentist who admitted working when she was meant to be self-isolating will spend two months behind bars.
www.watoday.com.au www.watoday.com.au
 
gringo2011 said:
Daniel Chick didn't think so as late as 2016. There has been rumours about it since they started. They looked like they were on roids even.
Click to expand...
now in the 2000's i dunno there were all kinds of dodgy things going down ... but i can tell you with some fairly solid intel that the WCE in the late 80's and eary 90's were bigger and better than others off the back of some brutal hard work ... lets not make a mistake this was basically a state team so they had the cream of WA footballers playing for them then on top of that they were the first to go full time professional spending up to 5 times as much time in the club doing football related training as the rest of the competition were doing...
its no shock then that once the other teams also joined suit to become full time professional footballers they also bulked up and became stronger footballers ...

as i said i hate the WCE but they were not on the juice in the early 90's
 

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