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He’s tall which gives him a good frame to build on. The dogs big 3 are all 190cm plus. Macrae is 192 Dunkley is 191 Bont is 193. They’re big bodied but macrae manages to play out on the wing while also being able to win contested ball. They’re also fantastic runners. If we can build up Alison’s frame he can be a big bodied 197 endurance beast who can go inside the mid and outside. And since he played as a forward all his career it’ll come natural if he finds himself with a set shot drifting forward

I don't quite get the obsession with tall midfielders to be honest. What advantage does height give you at the stoppages? I can certainly think of some disadvantages. Once you've crossed a certain threshold (say mid 180s), I think any additional height is way way down the pecking order in terms of priorities.

I think that in typical footy fashion, people have seen some tall midfielders succeed and then confused it for causation.
 
I think we drafted him because we wanted a forward to be honest.

If we wanted a big bodied mid there were plenty of options with that pick. It would be a strange move to draft a forward who can play on the wing and try and turn him into an inside mid.
Fair enough but maybe it’s easier to teach a forward to play mid than teach a mid to be genuinely dangerous in front of goals? A lot of mids are touted as having the ability to drift forward but honestly only a few actually scare me. Dusty, Petracca, Danger (kicking is iffy). A lot of the others go up and just get a pump up from commentary.
 

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I don't quite get the obsession with tall midfielders to be honest. What advantage does height give you at the stoppages? I can certainly think of some disadvantages. Once you've crossed a certain threshold (say mid 180s), I think any additional height is way way down the pecking order in terms of priorities.

I think that in typical footy fashion, people have seen some tall midfielders succeed and then confused it for causation.
Might be confirmation bias but I do think it gives them extra weight to throw around. At a certain height there really is a ceiling to how heavy you can get. Tall people are naturally heavier at similar proportions. If they can maintain endurance and fitness they’re just gonna be impossible to move. Patrick Cripps is 195cm and 95 kg. Doesn’t look incredibly huge cause he’s tall. Gives him that power to just run through blokes in a stoppage. Fyfe is 191 and 92kg. Outside of a stoppage the height means they have that marking power around the ground and if they drift forward. And if they actually know how to kick goals they’re a threat.
 
Haha 4 months ago our recruiters were considered top shelf. 4 losses later and they’re no good. Fickle game is AFL.

Anyway still think we have a solid group of under 23s in King, Battle, Paton, Clark, Coffield, Higgins, Bytel, Byrnes. Our bigger issue is so many of our mature players are out of form.
If you are reffering to dicussions around our selections in last year's draft you might want to go back and read the threads from the days after the draft.

It was an issue well before we started losing.
 
We just don't have many kids in comparison to other sides. We chase older state league players and have chosen not to take players at the most recent draft.

The older state league players thing is interesting, here's the ones we've taken in the last 10 years or so:

2020 pick 45: Tom Highmore (2 games)
2020 SSP: Paul Hunter (3 games)
2018 pick 47: Matty Parker (19 games, delisted)
2018 pick 54: Nick Hind (21 games, traded for late picks)
2018 pick 67: Robbie Young (3 games, delisted)
2018 rookie pick 3: Cal Wilkie (47 games)
2018 SSP: Jono Marsh (11 games, delisted)
2016 rookie pick 10: Rowan Marshall (54 games)
2012 trade: Tom Lee (17 games, delisted)
2011 trade: Terry Milera (30 games, delisted)
2011 trade: Ahmed Saad (33 games, delisted)
2011 pick 68: Beau Maister (21 games, delisted)
2011 rookie pick 12: Sam Dunell (12 games, delisted)
2011 rookie pick 30: Cam Shenton (24 games, delisted)

Basically two successes there in Wilkie and Marshall. Could maybe count Sinclair as well since he was taken after his draft year.

The rest were basically taken in two big lumps in 2011-12, and 2018. 2011-12 had a strike rate of 0/6. 2018 had a strike rate of 1/5.

That said, the earliest pick used on any of them was pick 45 on Highmore last year. I guess also the picks we traded for Lee, Milera, Saad.

Not sure what the conclusion is from this? Certainly seems like a bunch of wasted time and list spots, but most of them weren't super expensive so I'm not sure if it's that bad. I guess we missed out on the players we chose not to pick.
 
If you are reffering to dicussions around our selections in last year's draft you might want to go back and read the threads from the days after the draft.

It was an issue well before we started losing.
I read the threads. I was surprised when Allison’s name was read out. Then again I was surprised when Brad Howard’s name was read out years ago. But what do you expect when our picks were diluted to bring in mature recruits. Essendons recruiters look like genius’ but they had pick 6 and 7, you and me could’ve read those names out.
 
But what do you expect when our picks were diluted to bring in mature recruits.
Well I expected us to take a mid.

Especially when we have only used one top 40 pick on a midfielder since Jade Gresham in 2015.

Seemed strange to have reached for a project key forward at that stage when you can usually find those types late in the draft.
 
The older state league players thing is interesting, here's the ones we've taken in the last 10 years or so:

2020 pick 45: Tom Highmore (2 games)
2020 SSP: Paul Hunter (3 games)
2018 pick 47: Matty Parker (19 games, delisted)
2018 pick 54: Nick Hind (21 games, traded for late picks)
2018 pick 67: Robbie Young (3 games, delisted)
2018 rookie pick 3: Cal Wilkie (47 games)
2018 SSP: Jono Marsh (11 games, delisted)
2016 rookie pick 10: Rowan Marshall (54 games)
2012 trade: Tom Lee (17 games, delisted)
2011 trade: Terry Milera (30 games, delisted)
2011 trade: Ahmed Saad (33 games, delisted)
2011 pick 68: Beau Maister (21 games, delisted)
2011 rookie pick 12: Sam Dunell (12 games, delisted)
2011 rookie pick 30: Cam Shenton (24 games, delisted)

Basically two successes there in Wilkie and Marshall. Could maybe count Sinclair as well since he was taken after his draft year.

The rest were basically taken in two big lumps in 2011-12, and 2018. 2011-12 had a strike rate of 0/6. 2018 had a strike rate of 1/5.

That said, the earliest pick used on any of them was pick 45 on Highmore last year. I guess also the picks we traded for Lee, Milera, Saad.

Not sure what the conclusion is from this? Certainly seems like a bunch of wasted time and list spots, but most of them weren't super expensive so I'm not sure if it's that bad. I guess we missed out on the players we chose not to pick.
I reckon if you plot the average games played from players taken p45 onwards, this would present as fairly normal.
 
The older state league players thing is interesting, here's the ones we've taken in the last 10 years or so:

2020 pick 45: Tom Highmore (2 games)
2020 SSP: Paul Hunter (3 games)
2018 pick 47: Matty Parker (19 games, delisted)
2018 pick 54: Nick Hind (21 games, traded for late picks)
2018 pick 67: Robbie Young (3 games, delisted)
2018 rookie pick 3: Cal Wilkie (47 games)
2018 SSP: Jono Marsh (11 games, delisted)
2016 rookie pick 10: Rowan Marshall (54 games)
2012 trade: Tom Lee (17 games, delisted)
2011 trade: Terry Milera (30 games, delisted)
2011 trade: Ahmed Saad (33 games, delisted)
2011 pick 68: Beau Maister (21 games, delisted)
2011 rookie pick 12: Sam Dunell (12 games, delisted)
2011 rookie pick 30: Cam Shenton (24 games, delisted)

Basically two successes there in Wilkie and Marshall. Could maybe count Sinclair as well since he was taken after his draft year.

The rest were basically taken in two big lumps in 2011-12, and 2018. 2011-12 had a strike rate of 0/6. 2018 had a strike rate of 1/5.

That said, the earliest pick used on any of them was pick 45 on Highmore last year. I guess also the picks we traded for Lee, Milera, Saad.

Not sure what the conclusion is from this? Certainly seems like a bunch of wasted time and list spots, but most of them weren't super expensive so I'm not sure if it's that bad. I guess we missed out on the players we chose not to pick.
I'm pretty happy with that after 2016

Marshall is in our top 2 or 3 players

Wilkie hasn't missed a game and is a good leader

Hind is proving this year he was a very good selection but played out of position here

Highmore early days

I think if we grabbed a heap of 18 year olds we'd probably get a similar result but have to wait a few more years.
 

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We said before the draft that we were looking for another key forward to develop since that was a hole on our list. A lot of clubs were looking him in that part of the draft, we just happened to take him first. He's also different from Battle since he is a genuine key position size at 195cm and could still be growing.

By your standards these days, everyone is a gun if they are wearing a different jumper. Hopefully for Poulter's sake, he goes on to having a very good and long career. But that has nothing to do with Allison and his development.

This current wave of writing off a kid whose been in the system for 5 minutes started off someone comparing him (plus King and Battle) to a key forward who is in his 2nd year and yet to debut, one who played his first game in his third year and one who has played 25 games in 5 years. But yes, ours is still finding his feet at rd7 of his first season after not playing last year due to Covid and growing about 6cm, and must be a complete failure because he isnt reaching the lofty heights of those Hawthorn players :rolleyes:

I wanted Poulter before the draft. I suggested a pile of players at our pick. I doubt anyone even new who Allison was before the draft. I certainly hadn't even noticed his name pop up in discussions. It looks like we took a wildly speculative grab at someone who didn't really have a defined role but if there was one it was as a third tall type. Wilkie, Highmore, Coffield, Battle etc are all similar not quite tall enough for KP types suited to third tall roles. They are our new half back flankers which we now disposed of and still don't have a great one.

Not chasing midfielders predominantly is crazy. Most sides have a pool to pick from. Allison might come on but the fact he grew 20 cm last year just makes him even more unpredictable about where he plays.

I just want them to stop trying to be too clever. get best available and don't overreach. We seem to think we are outsmarting everyone else with no evidence of any ability to uncover hidden talent.

We still need a KPF but finding one from another club to spread defences would have made more sense and finding a proper one to develop as well is logical. Could have kept Bruce to do that and grabbed a kid to develop under him.
 
I wanted Poulter before the draft. I suggested a pile of players at our pick. I doubt anyone even new who Allison was before the draft. I certainly hadn't even noticed his name pop up in discussions. It looks like we took a wildly speculative grab at someone who didn't really have a defined role but if there was one it was as a third tall type. Wilkie, Highmore, Coffield, Battle etc are all similar not quite tall enough for KP types suited to third tall roles. They are our new half back flankers which we now disposed of and still don't have a great one.

Not chasing midfielders predominantly is crazy. Most sides have a pool to pick from. Allison might come on but the fact he grew 20 cm last year just makes him even more unpredictable about where he plays.

I just want them to stop trying to be too clever. get best available and don't overreach. We seem to think we are outsmarting everyone else with no evidence of any ability to uncover hidden talent.

We still need a KPF but finding one from another club to spread defences would have made more sense and finding a proper one to develop as well is logical. Could have kept Bruce to do that and grabbed a kid to develop under him.
You might not have known he before the draft, but the the relevant people must have considering he was in the Vic metro squad, at all the testing days, was invited to the training day pre draft for all the top Victorian draft prospects etc. It's not as if they were looking at the Morwell 3rds squad and picked someone at random.

In our recruiter's eye - the people who spend their entire lives tracking these players, watching them play, speaking to them etc - Allison was the best available based off what we were looking for and wanted to add to our list. Many other clubs were looking at him for around the start of the 2nd round, and we got in first with last pick for the first round which in almost every other year is a 2nd round pick. We really didnt reach as much as is being exaggerated on here - Geelong took someone before us who had played 2 games of football in his life and a week before the draft was been as a bolter rookie selection so taking someone at the early part of their predicted range isnt reaching much.

Reading a bio and watching a 2 minutes edited clip doesn't give people online the authority or knowledge to claim it was the wrong decision 5 minutes into someones career. Just because they didnt do what you wanted, doesn't mean they are trying to outsmart anyone or trying to be too clever. They have more information than any of us have will ever have, and made the decision based off that - not the set of criteria you determined was more important.

Give the kid some time to actually develop and adjust to the AFL system before writing him off as a failure and a wasted pick. He's a genuine key position sized player unlike those you listed above.

We have added mids to our list over recent years, just through different avenues. Why is it we should be drafting mids but trading in KPFs? Does it really matter how we add them to our list? Someone isn't going to be a better player if we drafted them over trading them in.
 
I think if we grabbed a heap of 18 year olds we'd probably get a similar result but have to wait a few more years.

Probably right. Just glancing at the other taken after the Parker pick who've shown something:

49: Bailey Scott (22 games)
52: Jacob Koschitzke (5 games)
55: Noah Answerth (28 games)
56: Marty Hore (14 games)
57: Lachie Schultz (29 games)
59: Brett Bewley (19 games)
61: Connor Idun (6 games)
64: Lachie Sholl (14 games)
65: Darcy Fort (8 games)
72: Brayden Ham (21 games)
76: Boyd Woodcock (7 games)
78: Will Hayes (11 games)
R6: Lachie Young (14 games)
R11: Tom Atkins (41 games)
R16: Jake Aarts (20 games)
R39: Jordon Butts (8 games)
SSP: Matthew Cottrell (9 games)
SSP: Michael Gibbons (42 games)
SSP: Jay Lockhart (22 games)
SSP: Hayden McLean (13 games)
SSP: Sydney Stack (26 games)
MS6: Ryan Gardner (15 games)
MS7: Will Snelling (27 games)
MS13: Marlion Pickett (26 games)
MS14: John Noble (28 games)

Not a huge amount in there tbh, probably Ryan Gardner would have been the most useful for us, maybe Hayden McLean could have done a better job than Paul Hunter. Atkins, but he was never going anywhere except Geelong. Gibbons but we don't need another small forward. Kosi the most interesting one there probably, but as you say, long term.
 
Probably right. Just glancing at the other taken after the Parker pick who've shown something:

49: Bailey Scott (22 games)
52: Jacob Koschitzke (5 games)
55: Noah Answerth (28 games)
56: Marty Hore (14 games)
57: Lachie Schultz (29 games)
59: Brett Bewley (19 games)
61: Connor Idun (6 games)
64: Lachie Sholl (14 games)
65: Darcy Fort (8 games)
72: Brayden Ham (21 games)
76: Boyd Woodcock (7 games)
78: Will Hayes (11 games)
R6: Lachie Young (14 games)
R11: Tom Atkins (41 games)
R16: Jake Aarts (20 games)
R39: Jordon Butts (8 games)
SSP: Matthew Cottrell (9 games)
SSP: Michael Gibbons (42 games)
SSP: Jay Lockhart (22 games)
SSP: Hayden McLean (13 games)
SSP: Sydney Stack (26 games)
MS6: Ryan Gardner (15 games)
MS7: Will Snelling (27 games)
MS13: Marlion Pickett (26 games)
MS14: John Noble (28 games)

Not a huge amount in there tbh, probably Ryan Gardner would have been the most useful for us, maybe Hayden McLean could have done a better job than Paul Hunter. Atkins, but he was never going anywhere except Geelong. Gibbons but we don't need another small forward. Kosi the most interesting one there probably, but as you say, long term.
The only one I’d say we should have taken was Lachie Sholl. 2 rising star noms and most weeks one of Adelaides best. He’s an elite kick off half back and his preferred position of winger. People are saying he should have been taken much much higher up in the draft.
 
Not chasing midfielders predominantly is crazy. Most sides have a pool to pick from.
The thing about mids is that outside of a few inside mids, most can play other positions.

You can never have enough midfielders on your list. Some will work out, some will be busts but the rest you will often find a position for.

Last year seemed like the time to bring more in. At the moment we are putting all out hopes on Byrnes and Bytel to come good, both were taken fairly late in the draft.

And then there's the fact we have one decent key defender under 29.

People can take the piss and say "oh he must be a bust after 2 games" but the fact is most on here were gob smacked when we picked him. Not just because we hadn't heard of him but because of the type of player he was. It was clearly a risky pick.

Would have made much more sense to use that first on a midfielder and then a late or rookie pick on someone like Jackson Callow.
 
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I wanted Poulter before the draft. I suggested a pile of players at our pick.
So why didn't you drive down to Moorabbin and demand to speak to Satan rather than just emailing your suggestions to the Trainee Membership lass?

No wonder she had no time to respond nicely to Joffaboy if she's spent the last half a year trying to track down Geoff Poulter :rolleyes:
 
You might not have known he before the draft, but the the relevant people must have considering he was in the Vic metro squad, at all the testing days, was invited to the training day pre draft for all the top Victorian draft prospects etc. It's not as if they were looking at the Morwell 3rds squad and picked someone at random.

In our recruiter's eye - the people who spend their entire lives tracking these players, watching them play, speaking to them etc - Allison was the best available based off what we were looking for and wanted to add to our list. Many other clubs were looking at him for around the start of the 2nd round, and we got in first with last pick for the first round which in almost every other year is a 2nd round pick. We really didnt reach as much as is being exaggerated on here - Geelong took someone before us who had played 2 games of football in his life and a week before the draft was been as a bolter rookie selection so taking someone at the early part of their predicted range isnt reaching much.

Reading a bio and watching a 2 minutes edited clip doesn't give people online the authority or knowledge to claim it was the wrong decision 5 minutes into someones career. Just because they didnt do what you wanted, doesn't mean they are trying to outsmart anyone or trying to be too clever. They have more information than any of us have will ever have, and made the decision based off that - not the set of criteria you determined was more important.

Give the kid some time to actually develop and adjust to the AFL system before writing him off as a failure and a wasted pick. He's a genuine key position sized player unlike those you listed above.

We have added mids to our list over recent years, just through different avenues. Why is it we should be drafting mids but trading in KPFs? Does it really matter how we add them to our list? Someone isn't going to be a better player if we drafted them over trading them in.


He's not really a key forward though. Hopefully he's a gun but it was a weird pick choice.
 

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