Analysis 2021 trade thread

[Dalions]

If Oscar goes down our season is over. Is there a team in the league who's ruck stocks are as thin as ours?

It is absolutely essential we get an archie type replacement.

I feel pretty certain that Darcy Fort is our man.

 

[briztoon]

There is so much focus on Brisbane getting a second established ruck to support Oscar. Most teams only have the one genuine ruck with another tall as back up.

This is incorrect.

Most teams have a genuine first choice ruck, with many playing a ruck forward as their chop out ruck in their best 22. Or they might play 3 tall forwards, with one providing ruck support. But they also have a backup ruck, or two, and might also have a reserve ruck forward.

It just depends on the ages of the reserve ruck/s.

Richmond last year had 7 players on their list capable of playing ruck (not all ready for AFL level yet).

Our “problem” is, should Oscar go down with anything more than a two week injury, we don’t currently have a player who could replace Oscar adequately, and that might cost us games.

We have neglected adding a young developing ruck or ruck forward, and carried Archie longer than was practicable, once Oscar went past him.

Obviously the club has invested in two young rucks now, but neither are ready to play at senior level if required.

So ideally we need a short term, senior ruck for a season or two.

And as has been mentioned, we don’t appear to have the salary to pay for a better quality ruck.

 

[briztoon]

If Oscar goes down our season is over. Is there a team in the league who's ruck stocks are as thin as ours?

It is absolutely essential we get an archie type replacement.

Geelong and Gold Coast come to mind. Can’t think of too many others off the top of my head.

But that’s different to teams looking for a new starting quality ruck.

 

[martinson]

I'm double jabbed Gadzorks, just a little light humour.

There's a lot of carrot & stick going on at the moment, but one of the big things with Aussies is they get their back up at being forced to do anything let a

This is incorrect.

Most teams have a genuine first choice ruck, with many playing a ruck forward as their chop out ruck in their best 22. Or they might play 3 tall forwards, with one providing ruck support. But they also have a backup ruck, or two, and might also have a reserve ruck forward.

It just depends on the ages of the reserve ruck/s.

Richmond last year had 7 players on their list capable of playing ruck (not all ready for AFL level yet).

Our “problem” is, should Oscar go down with anything more than a two week injury, we don’t currently have a player who could replace Oscar adequately, and that might cost us games.

We have neglected adding a young developing ruck or ruck forward, and carried Archie longer than was practicable, once Oscar went past him.

Obviously the club has invested in two young rucks now, but neither are ready to play at senior level if required.

So ideally we need a short term, senior ruck for a season or two.

And as has been mentioned, we don’t appear to have the salary to pay for a better quality ruck.

I think it's inevitable if we don't think Fullarton and/or Ballenden can be sufficiently improved in the pre season.

Daniher loved playing on the ball but he doesn't seem overkeen on rucking and with Hipwood down we need a tall focal point forward.

We can't really take the risk of Oscar getting injured or exhausted if we think we're a shot at it in 2022.

 

[beardancer]

I think it's inevitable if we don't think Fullarton and/or Ballenden can be sufficiently improved in the pre season.

Daniher loved playing on the ball but he doesn't seem overkeen on rucking and with Hipwood down we need a tall focal point forward.

We can't really take the risk of Oscar getting injured or exhausted if we think we're a shot at it in 2022.

Do we really need another not quite up to the task second ruck?
We've got Fullarton.....we had Archie, and we let him walk. we've got Payne, we've got Smith, we've got Ballenden, and next year we've got Lane who looks, imho, an a grade ruck prospect.
In my opinion we're wasting money and effort on fixing a problem that will be fading by round 10 next year. Smith, Ballenden, Fullarton and Lane will all be bigger, stronger and smarter next year.
We need another A grade midfielder not a VFL quality big man.

 

[martinson]

Do we really need another not quite up to the task second ruck?
We've got Fullarton.....we had Archie, and we let him walk. we've got Payne, we've got Smith, we've got Ballenden, and next year we've got Lane who looks, imho, an a grade ruck prospect.
In my opinion we're wasting money and effort on fixing a problem that will be fading by round 10 next year. Smith, Ballenden, Fullarton and Lane will all be bigger, stronger and smarter next year.
We need another A grade midfielder not a VFL quality big man.

That sounds a reasonable take Beardancer except if Oscar went down like say Hipwood did I wouldn't fancy any of the others having much impact through a whole season. They'd all be a big liability as first ruck.

It's important you have at least one player in your team who's competitive in the ruck and could go 80% TOG at it.

 

[briztoon]

Do we really need another not quite up to the task second ruck?
We've got Fullarton.....we had Archie, and we let him walk. we've got Payne, we've got Smith, we've got Ballenden, and next year we've got Lane who looks, imho, an a grade ruck prospect.
In my opinion we're wasting money and effort on fixing a problem that will be fading by round 10 next year. Smith, Ballenden, Fullarton and Lane will all be bigger, stronger and smarter next year.
We need another A grade midfielder not a VFL quality big man.

Fullerton is not a ruck. I’m becoming less and less confident he makes it in football.

Payne is a defender. I’ve never seen him ruck, at under age level, or even at training. May as well have mentioned Andrews ahead of Payne as a potential ruck.

Ballenden “might” come good, but he’s currently out of contract and is waiting on the clubs off-season moves to see if he’s offered another deal. He still needs to add some aggression and core strength to compete in the ruck.

Smith hasn’t even turned 19 yet, and is probably two years away from thinking about getting a game at AFL level.

Lane hasn’t spent 6 months in the system yet, and while a year older than Smith, is also a ways off from being ready to play at the top level.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Do we really need another not quite up to the task second ruck?
We've got Fullarton.....we had Archie, and we let him walk. we've got Payne, we've got Smith, we've got Ballenden, and next year we've got Lane who looks, imho, an a grade ruck prospect.
In my opinion we're wasting money and effort on fixing a problem that will be fading by round 10 next year. Smith, Ballenden, Fullarton and Lane will all be bigger, stronger and smarter next year.
We need another A grade midfielder not a VFL quality big man.

Agree 100% that we need another midfielder as a priority rather than another ruck option. Lane is coming along nicely as a specialist ruckman and Fullerton will be stronger and more experienced in 2022.

 

[mick1013]

I know it wont happen but i would really love to see Nathan Freeman

Nathan Freeman

Age

29

Ht

183cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.5

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.5

4star

CL

1.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.5

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.5

4star

CL

1.0

3star

added to our midfield, would be free and only cost 150k salary but dont think we have a list spot.

 

[lioninthesand]

I reckon if they recruit Fort he will play in the firsts and rotate with Mcinerney through the ruck. Mac will be able to play in the Forward line which will give us the more traditional structure we are use to. Whenever we have been introducing a new ready made recruit in the past few years it has been to play in the 1sts not as a back up. For this reason I believe that Fort will play in the firsts rather be purely as a back up.

I agree, he will essentially replace Fullerton in last year's finals team. That is still adding ruck depth.

Then when Hippy returns, we would either run the tallest set up in the comp, with an already slow midfield, or we would have to not play one of Joe, Hipwood, McStay, Oscar or Fort.

 

[lioninthesand]

Do we really need another not quite up to the task second ruck?
We've got Fullarton.....we had Archie, and we let him walk. we've got Payne, we've got Smith, we've got Ballenden, and next year we've got Lane who looks, imho, an a grade ruck prospect.
In my opinion we're wasting money and effort on fixing a problem that will be fading by round 10 next year. Smith, Ballenden, Fullarton and Lane will all be bigger, stronger and smarter next year.
We need another A grade midfielder not a VFL quality big man.

Fort can ruck, Fullerton can't.

 

[lioninthesand]

Geelong and Gold Coast come to mind. Can’t think of too many others off the top of my head.

But that’s different to teams looking for a new starting quality ruck.

Yeah Geelong have Stanley, Biclavs, Fort and Hawkins (the best forward 50 ruck in it just about) and are looking to add Cegler.

That is way better than us currently snd they are still looking to add more.

Gold Coast.. well the entire narrative around their season was their lack of ruck stocks and how it destroyed their season, which IMO - would be us if Oscar was to go down.

 

[KennyP#42]

I know it wont happen but i would really love to see Nathan Freeman added to our midfield, would be free and only cost 150k salary but dont think we have a list spot.

I just read his comments on the AFL website and thought the exact same thing. Low risk in regards to what it would cost, but potentially significant rewards - if we only had a rookie spot available

 

[Nuggo]

Now that Freeman is older his body might be able to withstand an AFL training load but still an unknown. Does he still have his speed? That could have dropped off a bit due to his injuries.

 

[LIONS08]

Hawks have made everyone above the age of 26 available by the sounds of things. I wonder if Jarman Impey could be available. Could be some pace out of the back half.

 

[mpal6]

Hawks have made everyone above the age of 26 available by the sounds of things. I wonder if Jarman Impey could be available. Could be some pace out of the back half.

We don't have the $$ unfortunately.

If Hawks are chipping in, then we have to pay a higher value of draft pick which is what they've been chasing.

 

[mpal6]

Reading through hawks supporter updates, it looks like we offered a decent 3 year deal for Ceglar last time which Hawks were forced to match and he re-signed over there. If this was like Mitch Wallis and Jamie Elliott scenarios of us getting played to get a bump with the incumbent club, we might keep Ceglar at an arm's length this time around and not actively pursue him. I have not seen Ceglar to Lions being actively thrown out there in comparison to Fort so it sort of makes sense to me.

So it might be Fort, Briggs or someone else at this stage.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Kalin Lane keeps coming up as some
sort of solution to our ruck problems
if O went down. What has he done that gives anyone this impression? He was picked up with a very low pick in the mid season draft and has played a few mediocre games in the 2’s. He may develop but is no where near ready now physically or experience wise and truth be known may never be. Anyone who thinks we don’t need a ruck who can at least hold his own/make a contest against Nic Nat, Gawn, Grundy etc is kidding themselves.

 

[Crimso]

I'm double jabbed Gadzorks, just a little light humour.

There's a lot of carrot & stick going on at the moment, but one of the big things with Aussies is they get their back up at being forced to do anything let alone being threatened with job security over it.

Here's a simple solution, come December 1st there will be enough vaccines available that everyone that wants one will have had at least one jab, from this date if you haven't been vaccinated with one dose & you don't have an exemption due to health issues then you forfeit your right for public hospital treatment if you get Covid. Simples. I trust my immune system. No probs, you've made your call then.

Edit: No exemptions for religious reasons either. If you get covid, your god can heal you

Double Edit: This is an even bigger potential derail isn't it.

critical vaccine theory?

 

[Quigley]

Kalin Lane keeps coming up as some
sort of solution to our ruck problems
if O went down. What has he done that gives anyone this impression? He was picked up with a very low pick in the mid season draft and has played a few mediocre games in the 2’s. He may develop but is no where near ready now physically or experience wise and truth be known may never be. Anyone who thinks we don’t need a ruck who can at least hold his own/make a contest against Nic Nat, Gawn, Grundy etc is kidding themselves.

I am confident he can provide as much of a contest as English did and that is enough to tide us over in an emergency.

 

[On the quiet]

Fullerton is not a ruck. I’m becoming less and less confident he makes it in football.

Payne is a defender. I’ve never seen him ruck, at under age level, or even at training. May as well have mentioned Andrews ahead of Payne as a potential ruck.

Ballenden “might” come good, but he’s currently out of contract and is waiting on the clubs off-season moves to see if he’s offered another deal. He still needs to add some aggression and core strength to compete in the ruck.

Smith hasn’t even turned 19 yet, and is probably two years away from thinking about getting a game at AFL level.

Lane hasn’t spent 6 months in the system yet, and while a year older than Smith, is also a ways off from being ready to play at the top level.

I agree with you that Payne is a defender, and I think potentially a solid one, although I think his development has already stalled due mostly to injuries and to a lesser extend not being able to consistently crack into the back 7 in 2021, and now some are talking about him going forward and playing back up ruck. Surely if nothing eventuates from the trade period we stick with Fullerton and hope he has a great pre season.

 

[dlanod]

Kalin Lane keeps coming up as some
sort of solution to our ruck problems
if O went down. What has he done that gives anyone this impression? He was picked up with a very low pick in the mid season draft and has played a few mediocre games in the 2’s. He may develop but is no where near ready now physically or experience wise and truth be known may never be. Anyone who thinks we don’t need a ruck who can at least hold his own/make a contest against Nic Nat, Gawn, Grundy etc is kidding themselves.

I think it's more a case that he's our only solution currently on our list.

 

[Fagenslions36]

whilst another legitimate midfielder would be great I really do think we can improve that area with the return of some players and tinkering with our side . Rayner comes back in and while
Not expecting miracles like Petracca from his he will be used In spurts to give our midfield more size . Crunch year for J Berry aswell needs to get through a full pre season and develop into a hard running big bodied mid who can go forward . Starcevich could also be used sparingly through centre if we want some more size that’s where he played his football as a junior and the inclusion of answorth back to full fitness would allow that . I’d also strongly consider using Andrews more as a swing man to give us another option up forward . Clearly our midfield lacks some speed but adding Rayner , starce and Bailey in there makes it more multi dimensional. Even if Rayner goes forward and Bailey plays basically all on ball it gives us more speed through the centre .

 

[jackess]

I think our midfield is fine as long as our young mids continue to improve and I'm sure they'll continue to try and change up the mix a bit.

If Kiddy continues to improve then we've found a bit of bounce out of our back half. Upgrading Robbo on the wing would be a huge win as well. Might even see guys like Cockatoo and Ah Chee step up

I think Bailey is the key. He can give us some real hurt factor when we do win the clearances and setup our dangerous forwardline.

 

[jackess]

I'd still love to get a third top 25-30 pick.

Walking away from this draft with an inside mid, outside mid/half back and a KPP all with the potential to be A graders would be a dream