VinnieB
Norm Smith Medallist
- Oct 28, 2021
- 7,439
- 11,589
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
If he has the same season they’ll put Sicily in.
2022 All Aus Predictions and Rolling teams
- Thread starter chopflop
- Start date
- Tagged users None
I hope so but I'm not convinced.
Unfortunately I think it has more to do with how well Hawthorn go (which it shouldn't).
I's not like this was Sicily's first elite year or anything. He had a better year than Stewart in 2018 and was on track for AA but got injured and missed too many games (6). He had a similar year in 2019 and was at least the equal of Stewart but was in the squad whilst Stewart was again the side (he was the incumbent and played for the better team so that call was fine in a 50/50).
This was Sicily's 3rd AA level year and his best yet, easily the number 1 defender across nearly every metric.
It's not as though he isn't a good story either - coming back from multiple injuries, including a knee reco, former bad boy now captaining the club and leading by example, being played under sized and out of position for the sake of the team and being the best overall defender in the league (and someone who didn't play nearly a third of the season getting in ahead).
Not convinced he'll ever get one after this year. Honestly, his best shot at getting in the side is requesting a trade to Geelong (I just threw up a little in my mouth)
- Jul 13, 2015
- 38,662
- 43,820
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Sicily should have been in 2019 and 2022. He will be like Leigh Matthews and Brownlows.
Great player offensively from defence but as a defender needs some work.I hope so but I'm not convinced.
Unfortunately I think it has more to do with how well Hawthorn go (which it shouldn't).
I's not like this was Sicily's first elite year or anything. He had a better year than Stewart in 2018 and was on track for AA but got injured and missed too many games (6). He had a similar year in 2019 and was at least the equal of Stewart but was in the squad whilst Stewart was again the side (he was the incumbent and played for the better team so that call was fine in a 50/50).
This was Sicily's 3rd AA level year and his best yet, easily the number 1 defender across nearly every metric.
It's not as though he isn't a good story either - coming back from multiple injuries, including a knee reco, former bad boy now captaining the club and leading by example, being played under sized and out of position for the sake of the team and being the best overall defender in the league (and someone who didn't play nearly a third of the season getting in ahead).
Not convinced he'll ever get one after this year. Honestly, his best shot at getting in the side is requesting a trade to Geelong (I just threw up a little in my mouth)
- Jul 13, 2015
- 38,662
- 43,820
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
So you havent looked at his defensive stats.
Also, Saad and Docherty are defenders? They are guys who are on the HBF and get the ball and run forward.
Yeah but how many can you have in a side?
- Jul 13, 2015
- 38,662
- 43,820
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
You'd have the one who did better. Sicily was better than May and Stewart too. Taylor is the only one better than him in a single stat, and only just.
Across all defensive positions (1 on 1, rebounding, intercept, goals against, etc.) Sicily was basically 1st or 2nd in the comp. Then throw in other things like metres gained, which the AA selectors used to love, and he owned that too.
He had double the coach votes of any other defender.
Which metric do you think he failed on?
I just don’t think he has as large defensive impact on his side as the others mentioned.
SSSSSS
Brownlow Medallist
- Apr 18, 2011
- 22,236
- 51,422
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Six decades of domination
Statistically he was the best defender both offensively and defensively with the exception of one stat in which Taylor had him beat.
#1 defender for coaches votes.
Passed both the stat and eye-test.
If you say so then fine , I just wouldn’t be picking him as a key defender.
Would get pushed around and too small to be compared to the key Backmen could only be picked as a mid sized to half back flanker and I think he was very close to being selected for that, I would prefer him in my side over Sinclair and Saad as well.
Did you watch a single Hawthorn game all year? He played both tall and small and did both super well while being offensively the best defender in the comp.
SSSSSS
Brownlow Medallist
- Apr 18, 2011
- 22,236
- 51,422
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Six decades of domination
Sicily is a CHB. Played CHB all season with a combination of either Frost at FB or Blanck at FB.
And even with the latter point he should have been the first picked HBF/BP in the side.
Statistically (and once again I point to the view of the coaches) he had a much better year than Saad and arguably Stewart (especially when you factor in the full season). Sinclair had more of the ball, and provided more drive going inside 50 but Sicily the better rebounder. Sinclair had a magnificent year so will not begrudge him getting selected on the HBF.
- Jul 13, 2015
- 38,662
- 43,820
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
You realise he was one of the best 1-on-1 defenders in the comp, and that was playing on key forwards?
How many Hawthorn games did you watch this year?
I assume about as many as the selectors.
He was comfortably the #1 offensive defender in the comp so that alone should be enough to get him in (even if he offered nothing defensively like so many of the others).
But, he did so whilst playing CHB. He played on guys like Lynch, Cameron, Curnow, etc and for the most part, shut them out of the game.
Was he the best nullifier in the competition? No, he wasn't. But he was the best overall given he was more offensive that any of the pure half back flankers and rebounders but did so whilst playing as a key defender.
Certainly did more defensively that half of those named, including Stewart (whilst also offering more offensively).
I won't post all the stats, rankings, coaches votes and media votes again but it is inarguable.
hawkman
Hall of Famer
When you are conceding 10-15 more inside 50s that is always going to be worse even with the best defense in the league
Last edited:
- Jul 13, 2015
- 38,662
- 43,820
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Taylor at GWS got in and GWS they were just as bad. West Coast worse. But the thing is, Sicily, Taylor and Barrass individually had brilliant seasons. All were better than May and Stewart, and in Sicily's case he was also better than Saad and Sinclair.
Do you keep Lockett out of awards because the Saints other than him were mostly terrible for most of his career?
Shooter#17
Team Captain
- May 9, 2015
- 444
- 525
- AFL Club
- Melbourne
- Other Teams
- Dees, KC Chiefs
Should have been in ahead of Stewart as that's the like for like, Not only was Sicily better on every metric but he also didn't miss 25% of the season. Stewart getting picked missing basically 6 games and having a poor last month is one of the all time howlers
It really doesn't.
That is a team based stat. No individual can be responsible for the scoring of an entire opposition - especially in a sport where midfield dominance and pressure and "team defence" is far more critical to preventing opposition scores than an individual's performance.
Hawthorn's midfield struggled more than any other in the league by some distance. Hawthorn were ranked 18th for Stoppage clearances and 18th for centre clearances. In fact, in terms of clearance differential - they were nearly 50% worse than the next worst (West Coast) and nearly twice as bad as the next worse team in centre clearances (which is the hardest to defend with 6-6-6).
To hold up like they did and still win 8 games and be well clear of the bottom 4 is testament to a backline that did pretty well under siege.
Last edited:
Yes, that's fine I reckon. He DID play as CHB (not 3rd tall or running defender) but as our best offensive weapon (as well as best defender) he zoned off and attacked as well as locked down - so if you want to pick him as an additional on top of a CHB/FB - I reckon that's fine.
Especially in a situation where the argument over Stewart (who missed nearly a third of the season) is clear cut. Wherever you choose to select him, he should have been the 1st defender picked.
Everyone will forget that in about 3 months though and he will end up with nothing to credit a good season.
Falcon3518
Norm Smith Medallist
- Mar 13, 2022
- 5,350
- 3,237
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Banned
- #6,800
Exactly, similar to Selwood not getting the Brownlow even though he’s a mid. His peak will never be considered great. Just a good consistent player like many others.
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
