Analysis 2023 All Australian Team Awards Night

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HarryBeef said:
In what ways are Andrews and Moore better than Weiters?
Click to expand...
Because they run around and try and get the easy kick as "interceptors" and therefore have a higher player ranking, which is all that matters apparently.

I have seen Charlie kick 6 on Moore this year and Harry towell up Andrews when he tried to play him 1 on 1 a couple of years ago, but apparently they are better "defenders" than Weitering.

Full credit to mccrae and Fagan for understanding that Morre and Andrews add more value to their team as "inteceptors". No credit to you for believing that "interceptors" are better defenders than "defenders" and for believing that some oblique ranking points determine how good a player is and how much value he adds to his team.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
So eye test and the same player ratings that have Briggs and LDU ahead of Curnow, Dawson, Serong, Gulden, Neale this year... Okay
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you want more points against him?

coaches votes
Sicily - 52 (3.05/game)
Andrews - 47 (2.13/game)
Taylor - 45 (3/game)
Moore - 45 (2.14/game)
Weitering - 22 (1/game)

im not going to put any more effort into this. perhaps you and your compatriots should put some effort into showing why weitering should be in the team instead

will be back to laugh at the blues melts when weitering misses the team once again
 
BigFrizz36 said:
Because they run around and try and get the easy kick as "interceptors" and therefore have a higher player ranking, which is all that matters apparently.

I have seen Charlie kick 6 on Moore this year and Harry towell up Andrews when he tried to play him 1 on 1 a couple of years ago, but apparently they are better "defenders" than Weitering.

Full credit to mccrae and Fagan for understanding that Morre and Andrews add more value to their team as "inteceptors". No credit to you for believing that "interceptors" are better defenders than "defenders" and for believing that some oblique ranking points determine how good a player is and how much value he adds to his team.
Click to expand...
Defensive 1v1's per game

Andrews - 3.5 (15.6% loss)
Weitering 3.3 (11% loss)
Moore - 2.9 (13.1% loss)

not really making a compelling case for weitering being a much better 1v1 defender with such slight margins are we?

slightly better, as i originally acknowledged. but given the other twos intercept work, you would expect them to be far worse if we listen to the fairy tale youre putting out
 

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rye said:
you want more points against him?

coaches votes
Sicily - 52 (3.05/game)
Andrews - 47 (2.13/game)
Taylor - 45 (3/game)
Moore - 45 (2.14/game)
Weitering - 22 (1/game)

im not going to put any more effort into this. perhaps you and your compatriots should put some effort into showing why weitering should be in the team instead

will be back to laugh at the blues melts when weitering misses the team once again
Click to expand...
You've advised people to have a lie down because they don't agree with you and you're coming back to have a laugh if weitering misses the team?

What a life you must lead.
 
rye said:
Defensive 1v1's per game

Andrews - 3.5 (15.6% loss)
Weitering 3.3 (11% loss)
Moore - 2.9 (13.1% loss)

not really making a compelling case for weitering being a much better 1v1 defender with such slight margins are we?

slightly better, as i originally acknowledged. but given the other twos intercept work, you would expect them to be far worse if we listen to the fairy tale youre putting out
Click to expand...
I mean ur also here saying they are much better interceptors yet Weitering averages more intercept marks per game than Andrews.
 
rye said:
Defensive 1v1's per game

Andrews - 3.5 (15.6% loss)
Weitering 3.3 (11% loss)
Moore - 2.9 (13.1% loss)

not really making a compelling case for weitering being a much better 1v1 defender with such slight margins are we?

slightly better, as i originally acknowledged. but given the other twos intercept work, you would expect them to be far worse if we listen to the fairy tale youre putting out
Click to expand...
So Andrews has a worse 1 on 1 loss percentage despite not playing on the best forward (as you would know Jackson payne does that these days)?

Moore is a key player , launches plenty of attacks but quite simply his coach understands that the best way to use him is not to have him stuck up against the big power forwards (Murphy will chop out there).

Once again you need to appreciate the difference between "interceptors" and "defenders". Claiming a player is better than another because he has a higher player ranking than another despite playing a different role is just ridiculous.

Put it this way if Briggs from GWS and Charlie Curnow both became available would you pick Briggs because he has a higher player ranking?
 
BigFrizz36 said:
So Andrews has a worse 1 on 1 loss percentage despite not playing on the best forward (as you would know Jackson payne does that these days)?

Moore is a key player , launches plenty of attacks but quite simply his coach understands that the best way to use him is not to have him stuck up against the big power forwards (Murphy will chop out there).

Once again you need to appreciate the difference between "interceptors" and "defenders". Claiming a player is better than another because he has a higher player ranking than another despite playing a different role is just ridiculous.

Put it this way if Briggs from GWS and Charlie Curnow both became available would you pick Briggs because he has a higher player ranking?
Click to expand...
Will always remember Harry Mckay kicking 7.5 vs Freo a few years back yet being the worst rated player on field because he kicked 5 behinds. Just geniuses over there at Champion Data.
 
rye said:
Defensive 1v1's per game

Andrews - 3.5 (15.6% loss)
Weitering 3.3 (11% loss)
Moore - 2.9 (13.1% loss)

not really making a compelling case for weitering being a much better 1v1 defender with such slight margins are we?

slightly better, as i originally acknowledged. but given the other twos intercept work, you would expect them to be far worse if we listen to the fairy tale youre putting out
Click to expand...
Hate to break it to you, but Weiters averages more intercept marks than Andrews...
 
Goals and assists round 23:

1. Charlie Curnow 92 (75/17)
2. Taylor Walker 83 (67/16)
3. Toby Greene 78 (56/22)
4. Kyle Langford 69 (50/19)
5. Nick Larkey 67 (62/5)/Charlie Cameron (51/16)/Tom Hawkins (49/18)
8. Jeremy Cameron 66 (53/13)
9. Aaron Naughton 62 (41/21)
10. Joe Daniher 61 (49/12)
 
Aristotle Pickett said:
No he's only attended about 20% of cba's but he is leading the league in average clearances
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But he is going for a team as a forward, no?

So centre bounce rates mean **** all

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk
 
eth-dog said:
Goals and assists round 23:

1. Charlie Curnow 92 (75/17)
2. Taylor Walker 83 (67/16)
3. Toby Greene 78 (56/22)
4. Kyle Langford 69 (50/19)
5. Nick Larkey 67 (62/5)/Charlie Cameron (51/16)/Tom Hawkins (49/18)
8. Jeremy Cameron 66 (53/13)
9. Aaron Naughton 62 (41/21)
10. Joe Daniher 61 (49/12)
Click to expand...
So the top 3 are locks. I think they'll pick 2 from 4th to 8th but most will be in the squad.

Very interesting last round upcoming for that group. Hoping Langers has a big game on Friday.
 
adammania9 said:
Squad outs: Josh Dunkley, Stephen Coniglio
Squad ins: Jai Newcombe, Tom Green

Dunkley has played two iffy games after missing a couple a few weeks back. Think Newcombe has a bigger body of work. Thought Green was done for the year when I took him out, but he's back and when he plays he is clearly better than Cogs. Cogs has had a great year but there's so much competition.

DEF: Harris Andrews, Jacob Weitering, Nic Newman, Darcy Moore, Isaac Quaynor, Nick Daicos, Tom Stewart, Charlie Ballard, James Sicily, Dan Houston, Jack Sinclair, Callum Wilkie
MID: Jordan Dawson, Rory Laird, Lachie Neale, Adam Cerra, Josh Daicos, Zach Merrett, Caleb Serong, Noah Anderson, Tom Green, Jai Newcombe, Christian Petracca, Connor Rozee, Zak Butters, Tim Taranto, Errol Gulden, Marcus Bontempelli, Tom Liberatore
RUC: Max Gawn, Rowan Marshall, Tim English
FWD: Taylor Walker, Joe Daniher, Charlie Cameron, Charlie Curnow, Kyle Langford, Jeremy Cameron, Tom Hawkins, Toby Greene, Luke Breust, Nick Larkey, Dustin Martin, Shai Bolton

Team outs: Shai Bolton, Joe Daniher, Tom Liberatore
Team ins: Charlie Cameron, Jeremy Cameron, Jacob Weitering

3 changes this week is a lot, but I can justify them. Despite missing games, Jeremy Cameron is simply next level. Put up another bag against quality opposition and beats Daniher in many KPIs. The gap between Daniher's good and bad is too big compared to Cameron's. This is the same story for Shai Bolton, whose game today was pretty good, but patchy. Charlie Cameron has found his mojo again the last few weeks to catch up on his brilliant form early. It's a fine line for midfielders sometimes, and Liberatore who has had a brilliant year will miss next week after effectively missing today and I personally had him and Bolton as last picked in my side last week. Weitering who has spearheaded Carlton's return to finals down back comes in, with Wilkie moving to the interchange.

Team:
B: Tom Stewart - Jacob Weitering - James Sicily
HB: Nick Daicos - Darcy Moore - Jack Sinclair
C: Errol Gulden - Jordan Dawson - Zach Merrett
HF: Christian Petracca - Taylor Walker - Toby Greene
F: Charlie Cameron - Charlie Curnow - Kyle Langford
R: Tim English - Marcus Bontempelli - Zak Butters
I: Jeremy Cameron - Connor Rozee - Tim Taranto - Callum Wilkie

Second team:
B: Nic Newman - Harris Andrews - Isaac Quaynor
HB: Adam Cerra - Charlie Ballard - Dan Houston
C: Josh Daicos - Lachie Neale - Noah Anderson
HF: Dustin Martin - Tom Hawkins - Shai Bolton
F: Joe Daniher - Nick Larkey - Luke Breust
R: Max Gawn - Caleb Serong - Tom Liberatore
I: Rory Laird - Rowan Marshall - Tom Green - Jai Newcombe
Click to expand...
Squad outs: Isaac Quaynor, Adam Cerra
Squad ins: Nick Blakey, Stephen Coniglio

DEF: Harris Andrews, Jacob Weitering, Nic Newman, Darcy Moore, Nick Daicos, Tom Stewart, Charlie Ballard, James Sicily, Dan Houston, Jack Sinclair, Callum Wilkie, Nick Blakey
MID: Jordan Dawson, Rory Laird, Lachie Neale, Josh Daicos, Zach Merrett, Caleb Serong, Noah Anderson, Tom Green, Stephen Coniglio, Jai Newcombe, Christian Petracca, Connor Rozee, Zak Butters, Tim Taranto, Errol Gulden, Marcus Bontempelli, Tom Liberatore
RUC: Max Gawn, Rowan Marshall, Tim English
FWD: Taylor Walker, Joe Daniher, Charlie Cameron, Charlie Curnow, Kyle Langford, Jeremy Cameron, Tom Hawkins, Toby Greene, Luke Breust, Nick Larkey, Dustin Martin, Shai Bolton

Team outs: Jeremy Cameron
Team ins: Lachie Neale

Team:
B: Callum Wilkie - Jacob Weitering - James Sicily
HB: Nick Daicos - Darcy Moore - Jack Sinclair
C: Errol Gulden - Zak Butters - Zach Merrett
HF: Christian Petracca - Taylor Walker - Toby Greene
F: Charlie Cameron - Charlie Curnow - Kyle Langford
R: Tim English - Marcus Bontempelli - Connor Rozee
I: Tim Taranto - Jordan Dawson - Lachie Neale - Tom Stewart

Second team:
B: Nic Newman - Harris Andrews - Nick Blakey
HB: Jai Newcombe - Charlie Ballard - Dan Houston
C: Josh Daicos - Tom Green - Noah Anderson
HF: Dustin Martin - Jeremy Cameron - Shai Bolton
F: Joe Daniher - Nick Larkey - Luke Breust
R: Rowan Marshall - Caleb Serong - Tom Liberatore
I: Rory Laird - Max Gawn - Stephen Coniglio - Tom Hawkins
 

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rye said:
weitering is pretty comfortably behind all 4 of andrews, moore, wilkie and sicily for mine

all of those 4 have had consistently AA level seasons

weitering over any of those 4 is recency bias or carlton bias at play
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Carlton have the second best defence in the afl. Best if you only count the previous 10 weeks. Hard to believe not a single Carlton defender would be in the AA Team.
 
Red_man2008 said:
Carlton have the second best defence in the afl. Best if you only count the previous 10 weeks. Hard to believe not a single Carlton defender would be in the AA Team.
Click to expand...
Sinclair and Naicos will probably be the two flanks - and they both have played a considerable amount of midfield time.

The KPD spots usually go to rebounders that get pantsed by their direct opponent.
 
BigFrizz36 said:
Because they run around and try and get the easy kick as "interceptors" and therefore have a higher player ranking, which is all that matters apparently.

I have seen Charlie kick 6 on Moore this year and Harry towell up Andrews when he tried to play him 1 on 1 a couple of years ago, but apparently they are better "defenders" than Weitering.

Full credit to mccrae and Fagan for understanding that Morre and Andrews add more value to their team as "inteceptors". No credit to you for believing that "interceptors" are better defenders than "defenders" and for believing that some oblique ranking points determine how good a player is and how much value he adds to his team.
Click to expand...

BigFrizz36 said:
So Andrews has a worse 1 on 1 loss percentage despite not playing on the best forward (as you would know Jackson payne does that these days)?

Moore is a key player , launches plenty of attacks but quite simply his coach understands that the best way to use him is not to have him stuck up against the big power forwards (Murphy will chop out there).

Once again you need to appreciate the difference between "interceptors" and "defenders". Claiming a player is better than another because he has a higher player ranking than another despite playing a different role is just ridiculous.

Put it this way if Briggs from GWS and Charlie Curnow both became available would you pick Briggs because he has a higher player ranking?
Click to expand...
Blues fans seem nuts on getting Weitering every year. BTW Moore took ten intercept marks against the Blues the first time they played and received the `10 coaches votes. The second time around Curnow did not kick 6 on him. Murphy was on him briefly and Cox gave away a free kick in the ruck which gave him a goal. Curnow did not kick 1 goal from a mark against Moore and Moore took 3 contested marks against him in the first quarter. I do not know which key defender will get in the AA but if Moore is so bad 1 on 1 why is he so high in the contested marks list? Higher than Weitering who has effectively played 2 more games than him. Weitering also gets quite a few uncontested marks around defence. Another factor if comparing the 2, Moore plays behind a midfield which concedes tons of easy clearances and our backline is constantly under pressure. He is generally the only genuine tall there. Sicily deserves to get in because of a standout year in a poor team. Would question Taylor getting in now because he has missed 7 games and been quiet in the last 3. Andrews has had a very good year but King towelled him, and Payne generally gets the best forward. Howe did a good defensive job on him the other night.. One other thing about Weitering, he does not have to play against Curnow.:)
 
Weitering was robbed in 2021 because Nick Larkey kicked 7 on Carlton while Weitering was playing forward for 3/4 of the game. Any goals kicked on Collingwood must automatically be attributed to Moore's ineptitude to make things right with the universe.
 
I’d love to see a table of the 5 defenders mentioned above with the amount goals they’ve conceded to their direct opponents. I’d say Weitering would be single figures for the year. The others wouldn’t.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
Weitering was robbed in 2021 because Nick Larkey kicked 7 on Carlton while Weitering was playing forward for 3/4 of the game. Any goals kicked on Collingwood must automatically be attributed to Moore's ineptitude to make things right with the universe.
Click to expand...
If Kane Cornes who is a selector gets his way Moore will not be in the team which will make you happy. He is always bagging him and this Monday on Footy Class. said that he would love to play on him. BTW while Moore's form tapered off a bit he was still taking above average intercept marks in those games and surprisingly has more spoils than Weitering this year which suggests that maybe he does some old-fashioned defending as well.
 
Sea fog said:
Blues fans seem nuts on getting Weitering every year. BTW Moore took ten intercept marks against the Blues the first time they played and received the `10 coaches votes. The second time around Curnow did not kick 6 on him. Murphy was on him briefly and Cox gave away a free kick in the ruck which gave him a goal. Curnow did not kick 1 goal from a mark against Moore and Moore took 3 contested marks against him in the first quarter. I do not know which key defender will get in the AA but if Moore is so bad 1 on 1 why is he so high in the contested marks list? Higher than Weitering who has effectively played 2 more games than him. Weitering also gets quite a few uncontested marks around defence. Another factor if comparing the 2, Moore plays behind a midfield which concedes tons of easy clearances and our backline is constantly under pressure. He is generally the only genuine tall there. Sicily deserves to get in because of a standout year in a poor team. Would question Taylor getting in now because he has missed 7 games and been quiet in the last 3. Andrews has had a very good year but King towelled him, and Payne generally gets the best forward. Howe did a good defensive job on him the other night.. One other thing about Weitering, he does not have to play against Curnow.:)
Click to expand...
Moore, Weitering & Sicily in the team sounds about right.

We agree x
 
I would not mind if English and Marshall was named All Australian.

I think both can play because of their ability including versatility and prowess being able to contribute forward.

Normally I am against two ruckman in the same side but not for these two

Either could rest forward while the other goes around the ground let alone the bench and other areas to cover

With these two playing no real need for a tall forward I suppose. Curnow would work with these two as well
 
Sea fog said:
If Kane Cornes who is a selector gets his way Moore will not be in the team which will make you happy. He is always bagging him and this Monday on Footy Class. said that he would love to play on him. BTW while Moore's form tapered off a bit he was still taking above average intercept marks in those games and surprisingly has more spoils than Weitering this year which suggests that maybe he does some old-fashioned defending as well.
Click to expand...
The all Australian selection panel might he a bit like most of us here on bigfooty.com.

We hear Kane Cornes but we don't actually listen to him.
 
Weitering has been an absolute brickwall these last couple of months, snd even before that he was really solid. along with all the Carlton hype, i reckon he would be stiff to miss.

Larkey should probably make it. Hes a similar case to Nick Riewoldt in 2014. While Riewoldt was more productiaround the ground, Larkey has at least 13 more goals on the season
 

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Analysis 2023 All Australian Team Awards Night

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