List Mgmt. 2023 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Key Dates:

Trade Period, October 6–18

• Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
• Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm

Quiet Period, October 19–November 20

• Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
• List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
• List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm

Draft Period, November 20–22

• Round 1 of the National Draft: Monday, November 20, time and venue TBA
• Trade Period (3), picks only: Tuesday, November 21, 5.45pm–6.30pm
• Round 2–end of the National Draft: Tuesday, November 21, 7pm until completion
• Rookie Promotions: Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• Delisted Free Agency Period (3): Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• List Lodgement 3*: Wednesday, November 22, 10am (optional; required for those participating in the PSD)
• Pre-Season Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3pm
• Rookie Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3.20pm
• Final List Lodgement*: Thursday, November 23, 4pm

* List lodgement dates are yet to be made public, so are approximate based on past history and the requirements of the AFL Rules. When lists are lodged, the number of players on the list must not exceed maximum list sizes. At the same time, clubs must provide the AFL with estimates of total player payments in the current and following year, which must prove the club is not and will not exceed the salary cap. (AFL Rules 5.3, 6.1, 6.8, 7.2, 7.9)

 

[caesar88]

He said our real weakness was our tall timber and suggested we trade someone in our midfield to get someone there.

He is saying our midfield is our commodity and currency. That video you shared King barely says anything.....

That is what I said...

My exact words were: David King has suggested we need to hit the trades hard at the end of this year and possibly cut a few from our midfield to bring in some tall timber.

Which is what you've said, only you've chosen to interpret King thinking we should use one of our mids for trades to mean he rates them highly. To each their own.

 

[RUNVS]

In 2022 we had the same midfield and would have been top 3-5 in most of these categories.

I don’t care what anyone says, if you have glaring issues / weakness in your defence and similar issues up forward, then it’s going to effect how the midfield is structured and how the midfielders play. Confidence, is everything.

The midfield was beaten in the same way in the Grand Final. They got smashed. This is a structural problem with the midfield itself.

 

[caesar88]

In 2022 we had the same midfield and would have been top 3-5 in most of these categories.

I don’t care what anyone says, if you have glaring issues / weakness in your defence and similar issues up forward, then it’s going to effect how the midfield is structured and how the midfielders play. Confidence, is everything.

Not sure I agree that the mids are down on confidence at the moment. I thought they looked pretty average against the Suns and Hawks when we were at near full-strength. Our setup is horrible and whilst the blame for that can probably be shared between the players and the coaches, it doesn't change the fact that it is horrible. You're not even giving your weakened back and forward lines a chance if you are getting killed out of the middle. Look at our midfield deficits in the Geelong and Fremantle games when our tall stocks were absolutely depleted. If you're suggesting they structured differently according to those tall deficiencies, then it absolutely did not work. All we've done is make life even harder for our talls at either end.

However I agree that nine bad weeks a midfield does not make. As you suggested last year we went toe-to-toe with Melbourne's midfield (the benchmark in the comp IMO) and beat them twice. We beat the same Freo midfield that thrashed us on the weekend last year as well. I think all the pieces are there, but I think they deserve to get shat on by the media for their performances this year.

 

[Donza]

In 2022 we had the same midfield and would have been top 3-5 in most of these categories.

I don’t care what anyone says, if you have glaring issues / weakness in your defence and similar issues up forward, then it’s going to effect how the midfield is structured and how the midfielders play. Confidence, is everything.

This.
I'll give you an example from another sport.
The Poms had just by ten wickets to helpless windies. They were rock-bottom as a cricket team.
Brendon McCullum was then appointed as the head coach. May 2022.
They had virtually the same batting lineup. However the confidence they gained enabled them to play "Baz-ball".
For lack of a better term. Fearless cricket.
In the past 11 tests . They've won nine comprehensively and lost 1 by one run.

Confidence.

The ability is there.

 

[Punts]

We have one of the worst list kpp wise going into next season.

The list is a shocking spot atm unfortunately imo

Retirements

Injuries and age

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Not sure I agree that the mids are down on confidence at the moment. I thought they looked pretty average against the Suns and Hawks when we were at near full-strength. Our setup is horrible and whilst the blame for that can probably be shared between the players and the coaches, it doesn't change the fact that it is horrible. You're not even giving your weakened back and forward lines a chance if you are getting killed out of the middle. Look at our midfield deficits in the Geelong and Fremantle games when our tall stocks were absolutely depleted. If you're suggesting they structured differently according to those tall deficiencies, then it absolutely did not work. All we've done is make life even harder for our talls at either end.

However I agree that nine bad weeks a midfield does not make. As you suggested last year we went toe-to-toe with Melbourne's midfield (the benchmark in the comp IMO) and beat them twice. We beat the same Freo midfield that thrashed us on the weekend last year as well. I think all the pieces are there, but I think they deserve to get shat on by the media for their performances this year.

I don’t believe a midfield can shine whilst the forward line is dysfunctional.

The classic case is point is Carlton circa 2010 (the “Setanta’s little helpers” era).

Their midfield featured Judd, Kreuzer, Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, Kade Simpson and Andrew Walker - all at or near their peaks.

A good bunch on paper - but as a unit, they were pretty crap, because they had no targets to aim at up forward.

I see similarities with the position we’re now in (except that we could really use a Kreuzer!)

 

[caesar88]

I don’t believe a midfield can shine whilst the forward line is dysfunctional.

The classic case is point is Carlton circa 2010 (the “Setanta’s little helpers” era).

Their midfield featured Judd, Kreuzer, Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, Kade Simpson and Andrew Walker - all at or near their peaks.

A good bunch on paper - but as a unit, they were pretty crap, because they had no targets to aim at up forward.

I see similarities with the position we’re now in (except that we could really use a Kreuzer!)

I think it depends on what you're talking about when you refer to "the midfield."

What you described sounds a lot like the current Hawthorn midfield. They win a lot of the ball but they don't have targets to kick it to. Their actual midfield craft though, in terms of reading the ball drop, extracting the ball, feeding it to the spare mids, etc. is actually pretty strong I reckon. It's everything after they've won their clearance that falls apart.

For us it feels like everything required just to even generate those clearances falls apart.

 

[Syd]

Posted this in the media thread but relevant here I suppose.

David King has suggested we need to hit the trades hard at the end of this year and possibly cut a few from our midfield to bring in some tall timber. Basically reckons we have the worst midfield in the comp outside of the bottom three and their performance has nothing to do with our injuries at either end (very true.)

Don't agree with everything he says but he is relentless with his criticism of our midfield and I kinda love it

King: Cut out a few from your midfield to bring in some talls.

Also King: Your midfield is bottom 4

So what would the equivalent tall timber said bottom 4 midfield could bring??

 

[S120]

We've absolutely got enough young/youngish talent who are right on the precipice of hitting that optimum time of their careers to be confident in the list moving forward. Young talent that have been forced to grow up quickly and assume responsibility too, mind you.

Hayward, Florent, McCartin, Blakey, McInerney, Rowbottom, Warner, Campbell, McDonald, and Gulden is a robust core. Then there are guys like Amartey who hasn't had a run at it properly, Wicks and Stephens who have been up and down, McLean a sturdy foot soldier if nothing else, Konstanty who is highly rated and I'm bullish on McAndrew. I reckon he'll be our starting ruckman next year the way he's developing.

So I think King is absolutely right - the time is now to start raiding other clubs for ready-to-play players who can come in and furnish that core. Definitely a key defender and a big midfielder would be my two big aims. You can pluck a defender who can develop into a good player fairly easily but finding a midfielder who can complement the Warner, Rowbottom, Gulden types will be harder. Mind you. those guys have played 48, 78, and 52 games each. They're not in the sweet spot yet. Give them time and from next year imo they'll be ready. I also remain bullish on Sheldrick if he's given proper midfield minutes (I'm hoping to god he plays this week and is given as much time in the guts as possible whislt Mills is injured).

 

[Donza]

King: Cut out a few from your midfield to bring in some talls.

Also King: Your midfield is bottom 4

So what would the equivalent tall timber said bottom 4 midfield could bring??

King is a bit of a FW at times.
*a lot.

The narrative these talking heads sprout is based on reactionary BS

It would take literally 3 wins in a row and the whole schtick would change.

 

[caesar88]

King: Cut out a few from your midfield to bring in some talls.

Also King: Your midfield is bottom 4

So what would the equivalent tall timber said bottom 4 midfield could bring??

It's David King. You have to expect some contradictions!

Nevertheless I still like the nucleus of his argument, which is that the midfield sucks atm, and not enough say it (Gerard Whateley the other night when talking about Sydney, still expressed his surprise at how beaten up in the midfield we get, and how he's not used to seeing that from Swans sides, like it's still 2012 or something.)

I don't agree that we need to shed mids, mainly because I like them all, a lot. But they're also all signed. Mills is signed until 2029, Warner is signed until 2025 and so is Parker. Gulden & Rowbottom come out of contract next year, but they're the two I'd be prioritising the most.

So it's a moot point. But if the midfield copping it in the media is the price we have to pay for them to knuckle down and make some changes and live up to their potential, I'm happy to pay it.

 

[BloodySwan]

Twomey saying the Suns are hunting around for picks. Offering them our 2x 2nd round picks for their first round pick becomes a very likely scenario.

Suddenly we have 2x top 10 picks. Take them to the draft? Or use it as trade currency?

 

[Artygunner]

Twomey saying the Suns are hunting around for picks. Offering them our 2x 2nd round picks for their first round pick becomes a very likely scenario.

Suddenly we have 2x top 10 picks. Take them to the draft? Or use it as trade currency?

They would be absolutely crazy to be taking that in this years draft.

 

[RUNVS]

Twomey saying the Suns are hunting around for picks. Offering them our 2x 2nd round picks for their first round pick becomes a very likely scenario.

Suddenly we have 2x top 10 picks. Take them to the draft? Or use it as trade currency?

Isn't it a bit early for clubs to be having these sort of discussions?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Trade Rowbottom out and on present form we get a pity party late 3rd rounder. At the start of the year I expressed the view he may have reached his ceiling as a B Grader. I am winding that back.

Whether he is carrying injury, woefully out of form or performing a negative defensive role because he is not seen as capable of another role, it is clear he has regressed. Maybe he should be trialled in the Clarke role. He is disciplined and an upgrade.

 

[Bloods86]

Trade Rowbottom out and on present form we get a pity party late 3rd rounder. At the start of the year I expressed the view he may have reached his ceiling as a B Grader. I am winding that back.

Whether he is carrying injury, woefully out of form or performing a negative defensive role because he is not seen as capable of another role, it is clear he has regressed. Maybe he should be trialled in the Clarke role. He is disciplined and an upgrade.

Other clubs would love to have Rowbottom. I guess you must have missed the Freo game. It is clear he is capable of multiple roles, because he has done them before, we've all seen it. I really don't understand these obsessions you get about certain players.

 

[BloodySwan]

The way some posters here turn on the club is crazy. Memories which make goldfish look like geniuses

 

[RUNVS]

Trade Rowbottom out and on present form we get a pity party late 3rd rounder. At the start of the year I expressed the view he may have reached his ceiling as a B Grader. I am winding that back.

Whether he is carrying injury, woefully out of form or performing a negative defensive role because he is not seen as capable of another role, it is clear he has regressed. Maybe he should be trialled in the Clarke role. He is disciplined and an upgrade.

What is the point of trading him out if we only get a 3rd rounder for him? We likely won't get a better player with a 3rd rounder and all we will be doing is increasing our depth issues.

It is why I am not so keen to get rid of guys like Taylor and Grey. Sure they were not the best, but having them in the VFL team, setting standards does help. It helps no one having our reserves team beaten week after week after week. Just because a player may be on the edge of selection does not mean we have to get rid of them.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

What is the point of trading him out if we only get a 3rd rounder for him? We likely won't get a better player with a 3rd rounder and all we will be doing is increasing our depth issues.

It is why I am not so keen to get rid of guys like Taylor and Grey. Sure they were not the best, but having them in the VFL team, setting standards does help. It helps no one having our reserves team beaten week after week after week. Just because a player may be on the edge of selection does not mean we have to get rid of them.

I was arguing against trading him as we would only get chump change.

I agree about the Ressies. Taylor and Sinkers did a fine job in the 2s as did James Bell and we are missing those experienced voices. Ideally one would have stayed in a captain co-coaching role.

 

[Shaq_01]

Twomey saying the Suns are hunting around for picks. Offering them our 2x 2nd round picks for their first round pick becomes a very likely scenario.

Suddenly we have 2x top 10 picks. Take them to the draft? Or use it as trade currency?

I would not be surprised if we aim for that

Suns need the points badly

I think we have one of the best hands if not the best

I would be over the moon with

2x top 10 picks
KPD trade
Resigning Amartey
Paddy Healthy
Melican gone
Franklin retired
MSD KPF
Caleb May as a rookie

With the 2x top 10 I would look at Curtin A Reid Moir Caddy Tholsrup

 

[hairy biker]

Prospects for the mid-season draft;

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www.theinnersanctum.com.au

Sam Naismith

24

Sam Naismith

Age

32

Ht

205cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.9

2star

K

3.6

1star

HB

5.3

4star

CL

2.0

4star

HO

25.5

5star

D

9.5

2star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.0

1star

CL

3.0

4star

HO

26.5

5star

D

9.2

3star

K

3.2

2star

HB

6.0

4star

CL

1.4

4star

HO

25.4

5star

& Ryley Stoddart

33

Ryley Stoddart

Age

24

Ht

186cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.8

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.7

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

3star

MG

146.3

2star

D

13.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.5

2star

MG

214.0

3star

D

7.4

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.6

4star

MG

107.4

2star

get a mention as well as a few players in Oscar McDonald

21

Oscar Mcdonald

Age

28

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

191.4

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.7

3star

MG

157.7

3star

D

14.8

4star

K

5.4

2star

HB

9.4

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.4

3star

MG

138.4

3star

, Ethan Phillips and Jack Buller who have been discussed in these here parts.

Somewhat surprisingly Indhi Kirk is also highlighted.

 

[caesar88]

Prospects for the mid-season draft;

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This website is for sale! theinnersanctum.com.au is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, theinnersanctum.com.au has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

www.theinnersanctum.com.au

Sam Naismith & Ryley Stoddart get a mention as well as few players in Oscar McDonald, Ethan Phillips and Jack Buller who have been discussed in these here parts.

Somewhat surprisingly Indhi Kirk is also highlighted.

Me to other clubs

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

This.
I'll give you an example from another sport.
The Poms had just by ten wickets to helpless windies. They were rock-bottom as a cricket team.
Brendon McCullum was then appointed as the head coach. May 2022.
They had virtually the same batting lineup. However the confidence they gained enabled them to play "Baz-ball".
For lack of a better term. Fearless cricket.
In the past 11 tests . They've won nine comprehensively and lost 1 by one run.

Confidence.

The ability is there.

So you are saying that we need to trade out the coach then

 

[tombomb]

Prospects for the mid-season draft;

theinnersanctum.com.au - This website is for sale! - theinnersanctum Resources and Information.

This website is for sale! theinnersanctum.com.au is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, theinnersanctum.com.au has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

www.theinnersanctum.com.au

Sam Naismith & Ryley Stoddart get a mention as well as a few players in Oscar McDonald, Ethan Phillips and Jack Buller who have been discussed in these here parts.

Somewhat surprisingly Indhi Kirk is also highlighted.

Most exciting part about Indhi.

WING/DEF, 18, 181cm, 75kg

Kinnear:

 

[Jeffers]

Most exciting part about Indhi.

WING/DEF, 18, 181cm, 75kg

Kinnear:

Kinnear after reading that……