List Mgmt. 2023 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

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Key Trade & Draft Dates
  • Index
    • Key Dates:

    Trade Period, October 6–18
    • Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
    • Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm
    Quiet Period, October 19–November 20
    • Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
    • List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
    • Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
    • Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
    • List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm
    Draft Period, November 20–22
    • Round 1 of the National Draft: Monday, November 20, time and venue TBA
    • Trade Period (3), picks only: Tuesday, November 21, 5.45pm–6.30pm
    • Round 2–end of the National Draft: Tuesday, November 21, 7pm until completion
    • Rookie Promotions: Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
    • Delisted Free Agency Period (3): Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
    • List Lodgement 3*: Wednesday, November 22, 10am (optional; required for those participating in the PSD)
    • Pre-Season Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3pm
    • Rookie Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3.20pm
    • Final List Lodgement*: Thursday, November 23, 4pm
    * List lodgement dates are yet to be made public, so are approximate based on past history and the requirements of the AFL Rules. When lists are lodged, the number of players on the list must not exceed maximum list sizes. At the same time, clubs must provide the AFL with estimates of total player payments in the current and following year, which must prove the club is not and will not exceed the salary cap. (AFL Rules 5.3, 6.1, 6.8, 7.2, 7.9)
     
    Last edited:
  • Index
    • tombomb said:
    If Steele asks to leave, St Kilda maintain the leverage of being able to say No.

    There is where I am not sure you fully grasp how it works. There is no bidding war. St Kilda don't shop him around to four clubs and then go tell Steele to clean out his locker when one offers a good draft pick.

    St Kilda tell Steele they want him to leave. If Steele agrees to go, then he picks picks 1 club, not 4. That club then negotiates knowing St Kilda has given up all leverage by telling Steele they want to trade him.

    What Cornes is suggesting is the Saints do what Collingwood did with Treloar and Grundy. Just get rid of him to help your salary cap.
    Click to expand...

    Oh ok, like I said, I guess that's why you're paid the big bucks. Clubs never get played off against each other to see who can offer the best deal.
     
    I would not be at all surprised if half the people who post here on players worth and their form over the past two or three years make such comments without ever watching said players actually play. Many here watch Swans games only yet they feel perfectly educated to make such comments based on what they have read, what statistics tell them and just because they feel the way they do.
    I watch every single game in full, hence I feel I can make judgements based on what I've actually seen rather than what someone else has seen.
    Having watched McKay in the 19 games he's played this year, I am totally convinced that he will do wonders for us next year and beyond. Everyone looks at the likes of Steven May as being a great FB but who has he had this year as support. Lever and Petty with Gawn dropping back to help out. Who has McKay had? Pretty well no-one unless you want to count an ageing Ziebell and an underwhelming Logue.
    With the support of McCartin and to a lesser extent Melican, McKay will be a revelation for us. Together with Grundy, we will be right into flag contention.
    But then again, I suppose we'll still have to read all the naysayers who would rather bring in second rate players who may end up being no more than reserve, because it may save us a few dollars.
     
    Last edited:
    SM said:
    Oh ok, like I said, I guess that's why you're paid the big bucks. Clubs never get played off against each other to see who can offer the best deal.
    Click to expand...

    Maybe with contracts, but not with trades.

    If Grundy picks Port then it doesn't matter what we would be willing to give Melbourne, he won't be playing for us.
     

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    Bandicoot said:
    I would not be at all surprised if half the people who post here on players worth and form over the past two or three years make such comments without ever watching said players actually play. Many here watch Swans games only yet they feel perfectly educated to make such comments based on what they have read, what statistics tell them and just because they feel the way they do.
    I watch every single game in full, hence I feel I can make judgements based on what I've actually seen rather than what someone else has seen.
    Having watched McKay in the 19 games he's played this year, I am totally convinced that he will do wonders for us next year and beyond. Everyone looks at the likes of Steven May as being a great FB but who has he had this year as support. Lever and Petty with Gawn dropping back to help out. Who has McKay had? Pretty well no-one unless you want to count an ageing Ziebell and an underwhelming Logue.
    With the support of McCartin and to a lesser extent Melican, McKay will be a revelation for us. Together with Grundy, we will be right into flag contention.
    But then again, I suppose we'll still have to read all the naysayers who would rather bring in second rate players who may end up being no more than reserve, because it may save us a few dollars.
    Click to expand...
    Don't watch many of those games but I'm prepared to accept your opinion on McKay. Where I agree strenuously and have said many times is to trade in quality that IMPROVES the team and draft quality to balance the list and fill the pipeline to improve the team in the future.
     
    Good to see Indhi and Caiden still in the Coates League rankings

    Looks like 194cm key defender Arie Schoenmaker had a stand-out game for Tasmania as well on the weekend - 32 disposals, seven marks, three intercept marks, five spoils and four tackles, now top 5. Connor O'Sullivan at #42.

    COATES LEAGUE TOP 50 RANKINGS AFTER ROUND QUARTER-FINALS​

    Ranking, Player, Club, Position, 2023 games, 2023 Ave. KFC SuperCoach Points
    1. George Stevens, GWV Rebels, MID, 13 games, 160 points
    2. Jed Walter, Gold Coast Academy, FWD, 4 games, 156 points
    3. Ryley Sanders, Sandringham Dragons, MID, 7 games, 150 points
    4. Colby McKercher, Tasmania Devils, MID, 8 games, 148 points
    5. Arie Schoenmaker, Tasmania Devils, DEF, 7 games, 147 points
    6. Indhi Kirk, Sydney Swans Academy, MID, 5 games, 143 points
    7. Kristian Ferronato, Northern Knights, MID, 12 games, 141 points
    8. Jagga Smith, Oakleigh Chargers, MID, 10 games, 139 points
    9. Will Rowlands, Northern Territory, MID-FWD, 2 games, 138 points
    10. Levi Ashcroft, Sandringham Dragons, MID, 9 games, 135 points
    11. Harley Reid, Bendigo Pioneers, MID, 6 games, 135 points
    12. Jake Rogers, Gold Coast Academy, MID, 4 games, 134 points
    13. Mahmoud Taha, Calder Cannons, MID, 12 games, 129 points
    14. Zane Duursma, Gippsland Power, MID, 12 games, 129 points
    15. Christian Moraes, Eastern Ranges, MID, 14 games, 128 points
    16. Tom Beaumont, Tasmania Devils, MID, 12 games, 128 points
    17. Caiden Cleary, Sydney Swans Academy, MID, 4 games, 126 points
    18. Darcy Wilson, Murray Bushrangers, MID, 11 games, 125 points
    19. Harvey Thomas, Oakleigh Chargers/GWS, 6 games, 125 points
    20. Hugo Garcia, Calder Cannons, MID-FWD, 11 games, 125 points
    21. Jedd Longmire, Murray Bushrangers, FWD, 2 games, 124 points
    22. Lachlan Smith, Gippsland Power, RUCK, 12 games, 123 points
    23. Lachlan Charleson, GWV Rebels, MID, 13 games, 122 points
    24. Kynan Brown, Oakleigh Chargers, MID, 12 games, 121 points
    25. Jake Smith, Western Jets, MID, 13 games, 121 points
    26. Harvey Langford, Dandenong Stingrays, MID, 14 games, 121 points
    27. Joel Freijah, GWV Rebels, MID, 14 games, 120 points
    28. Ethan Read, Gold Coast Academy, RUCK, 4 games, 118 points
    29. Ryan Maric*, Gippsland Power, FWD, 3 games, 118 points
    30. Josh Smillie, Eastern Ranges, MID, 8 games, 116 points
    31. Owen Collins, Brisbane Lions Academy, DEF, 1 game, 115 points
    32. Sam Marshall, Sandringham Dragons, DEF, 5 games, 115 points
    33. Murphy Reid, Sandringham Dragons, MID, 8 games, 115 points
    34. Tyson Sruk, Eastern Ranges, DEF, 15 games, 114 points
    35. Kobe Shipp, Dandenong Stingrays, MID, 11 games, 114 points
    36. Xavier Lindsay, Gippsland Power, DEF, 12 games, 111 points
    37. Finn O’Sullivan, Oakleigh Chargers, 8 games, 111 points
    38. Nicholas Watson, Eastern Ranges, FWD, 7 games, 111 points
    39. Sam Lalor, GWV Rebels, MID, 8 games, 111 points
    40. Mitchell Nicholas, Tasmania Devils, MID, 5 games, 111 points
    41. Oscar Ryan, Murray Bushrangers, DEF, 10 games, 110 points
    42. Connor O’Sullivan, Murray Bushrangers, DEF, 9 games, 110 points
    43. Daniel Annable, Brisbane Lions Academy, MID, 4 games, 109 points
    44. Angus Hastie, Geelong Falcons, DEF, 12 games, 109 points
    45. Heath Ollington, Tasmania Devils, FWD, 12 games, 109 points
    46. Patrick Hughes, Geelong Falcons, MID, 15 games, 108 points
    47. Jack Callinan, Tasmania Devils, FWD, 10 games, 108 points
    48. Tom Bower, Oakleigh Chargers, MID-FWD, 5 games, 107 points
    49. Tom Evans, Bendigo Pioneers, MID, 7 games, 107 points
    50. Nate Caddy, Northern Knights, FWD, 9 games, 107 points
     
    The focus has rightly been on a KPD, but we really struggled when the ball hit the deck in our D50 this year, and were particularly exposed against Carlton.

    Nick Smith is an unfairly high standard to hold anyone to, but we've never replaced that shutdown small role. Campbell is better used up the ground and whilst Florent and Lloyd do an ok job, their value is providing drive of halfback rather than stopping opposition smalls hurting us. Cunningham improved as the season went on but conversely Fox dropped off a bit of a cliff.

    Is there anyone in the system at the moment that can step up?
     
    tombomb said:
    Maybe with contracts, but not with trades.

    If Grundy picks Port then it doesn't matter what we would be willing to give Melbourne, he won't be playing for us.
    Click to expand...
    Not totally correct. If Port have nothing to offer Melbourne, which is where it stands atm, Melbourne will not be letting him go to Port. They will advise him that he either stays with them and plays VFL, unless Gawn gets injured OR he goes to a club who can satisfy their trade demands, being us.
     
    ashep said:
    The focus has rightly been on a KPD, but we really struggled when the ball hit the deck in our D50 this year, and were particularly exposed against Carlton.

    Nick Smith is an unfairly high standard to hold anyone to, but we've never replaced that shutdown small role. Campbell is better used up the ground and whilst Florent and Lloyd do an ok job, their value is providing drive of halfback rather than stopping opposition smalls hurting us. Cunningham improved as the season went on but conversely Fox dropped off a bit of a cliff.

    Is there anyone in the system at the moment that can step up?
    Click to expand...
    How many clubs currently have a small defender as good as Nick Smith was?
     
    Bandicoot said:
    Not totally correct. If Port have nothing to offer Melbourne, which is where it stands atm, Melbourne will not be letting him go to Port. They will advise him that he either stays with them and plays VFL, unless Gawn gets injured OR he goes to a club who can satisfy their trade demands, being us.
    Click to expand...

    Bingo.

    Clubs need to stump up something worthwhile to get the player across, meaning the club is able to extract full value, especially when there's competing clubs.
     
    Wolfgang West said:
    Okay then what's the answer ? What did you think when the club traded for journeyman Hickey ? That turned out reasonably well for a couple of years. When the window is open you just have to get suitable pieces. People are making out as if this bloke is a no talent hack. Yeah he is not as good as he once was but he would be serviceable. Just keep pissing away McCleans value to the side up forward by throwing him into the ruck all the time ? McAndrew you could snap in half and Ladham's is 5 minutes away from killing someone or the nuthouse.
    Click to expand...
    I still want Grundy

    Im just not expecting a star and I think he's worth a 3rd rounder if we take his salary.

    What did Melbourne pay for him?

    His value hasn't gone up
     
    Bandicoot said:
    I would not be at all surprised if half the people who post here on players worth and form over the past two or three years make such comments without ever watching said players actually play. Many here watch Swans games only yet they feel perfectly educated to make such comments based on what they have read, what statistics tell them and just because they feel the way they do.
    I watch every single game in full, hence I feel I can make judgements based on what I've actually seen rather than what someone else has seen.
    Having watched McKay in the 19 games he's played this year, I am totally convinced that he will do wonders for us next year and beyond. Everyone looks at the likes of Steven May as being a great FB but who has he had this year as support. Lever and Petty with Gawn dropping back to help out. Who has McKay had? Pretty well no-one unless you want to count an ageing Ziebell and an underwhelming Logue.
    With the support of McCartin and to a lesser extent Melican, McKay will be a revelation for us. Together with Grundy, we will be right into flag contention.
    But then again, I suppose we'll still have to read all the naysayers who would rather bring in second rate players who may end up being no more than reserve, because it may save us a few dollars.
    Click to expand...

    lol… nice melt.

    Because I get so much schadenfreude from them I watch all Norf games. I am no expert but have watched him closely, especially when speculation stepped up.

    I like McKay but he is not within a bull’s roar of May, But he does have some real skills and is entering his prime. He has some weaknesses and would need to learn our systems. His decision making with ball in hand needs improvement and Iguess he works on that. He also seems a top shelf person.

    Unfortunately it is a weird situation and a sellers market dictates an odd price.

    Norf has been as craven as it gets from my pov. No surprise.

    Ben will benefit from a big salary increase but carry a lot of expectation be it with us or elsewhere.

    I am sure he will help our Club, as would Grundy, but I reckon we have to keep our expectations real.
     

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    WillHayward said:
    I still want Grundy

    Im just not expecting a star and I think he's worth a 3rd rounder if we take his salary.

    What did Melbourne pay for him?

    His value hasn't gone up
    Click to expand...
    Melbourne paid 27 but it was a buyer's market then. Collingwood wanted to get rid of the salary it was costing them hence they underpaid his worth. It was Melbourne's error in not making him worth the pick but had he come to us last year instead, he would have been worth far more than pick 27.
    Granted, his past two years haven't been as good as his form prior to that but he is only 29 which by ruck terms is in the prime of his career. There is no reason at all that he will not find his form again.
    As to what we should pay Melbourne for him, I would be more than happy to give up our second pick - 21 or 22 whichever it is.
     
    Will Brodie pls.

    Need to bolster the midfield badly, and only 25 next year.
     
    scaryness said:
    Will Brodie pls.

    Need to bolster the midfield badly, and only 25 next year.
    Click to expand...
    I hope we make an offer to James Jordan. Seems to be just on the outer as he does have a few mids ahead of him at Melbourne. Was sub in 6 of the first half season of games. He's only 22 and even better he's a free agent.
     
    Grand Uncle Horace said:
    Agree with many of your points but not the tone.

    Yes we need a quality ruckman and I say hallelujah if we get Grundy. Yes we need a solid tall KPD even if we have to pay way more than the fella in question is worth.

    After an ineffectual first half, Hickey lifted and with McLean did better than break even with the Oppo.

    I thought the most important change at centre clearances was moving Parker forward and out of the mids where he had been beaten and running with a different mix.

    It proved a win/win coaching move, lifting the efforts of the mids and forwards.

    Agree Mills is our best mid and injury (seemingly to his hand) limited his role there in the second half of the season.

    The other circumstances you refer to about him playing different roles were in fact choices made by the Coach, the low point being when Mills was asked to play on Hawkins.

    Hopefully in 2024 Mills leads our reconfigured midfield with the benefit of a quality ruck.
    Click to expand...
    Absolutely agree re Parker. I think now the best move for him is having that split role. He's still a great player, but it adds a lot more to our team with him rotating between the middle and up forward.
     
    ashep said:
    The focus has rightly been on a KPD, but we really struggled when the ball hit the deck in our D50 this year, and were particularly exposed against Carlton.

    Nick Smith is an unfairly high standard to hold anyone to, but we've never replaced that shutdown small role. Campbell is better used up the ground and whilst Florent and Lloyd do an ok job, their value is providing drive of halfback rather than stopping opposition smalls hurting us. Cunningham improved as the season went on but conversely Fox dropped off a bit of a cliff.

    Is there anyone in the system at the moment that can step up?
    Click to expand...
    Vickery was recruited as the lock down small defender you talk of.

    Konstanty similarly as the opposite end, small forward.

    May take a bit of time for both these players. Hopefully they progress and hold down the pockets at opposite ends of the ground.
     
    Adnico26Parker said:
    Good to see Indhi and Caiden still in the Coates League rankings

    Looks like 194cm key defender Arie Schoenmaker had a stand-out game for Tasmania as well on the weekend - 32 disposals, seven marks, three intercept marks, five spoils and four tackles, now top 5. Connor O'Sullivan at #42.

    COATES LEAGUE TOP 50 RANKINGS AFTER ROUND QUARTER-FINALS​

    Ranking, Player, Club, Position, 2023 games, 2023 Ave. KFC SuperCoach Points
    1. George Stevens, GWV Rebels, MID, 13 games, 160 points
    2. Jed Walter, Gold Coast Academy, FWD, 4 games, 156 points
    3. Ryley Sanders, Sandringham Dragons, MID, 7 games, 150 points
    4. Colby McKercher, Tasmania Devils, MID, 8 games, 148 points
    5. Arie Schoenmaker, Tasmania Devils, DEF, 7 games, 147 points
    6. Indhi Kirk, Sydney Swans Academy, MID, 5 games, 143 points
    7. Kristian Ferronato, Northern Knights, MID, 12 games, 141 points
    8. Jagga Smith, Oakleigh Chargers, MID, 10 games, 139 points
    9. Will Rowlands, Northern Territory, MID-FWD, 2 games, 138 points
    10. Levi Ashcroft, Sandringham Dragons, MID, 9 games, 135 points
    11. Harley Reid, Bendigo Pioneers, MID, 6 games, 135 points
    12. Jake Rogers, Gold Coast Academy, MID, 4 games, 134 points
    13. Mahmoud Taha, Calder Cannons, MID, 12 games, 129 points
    14. Zane Duursma, Gippsland Power, MID, 12 games, 129 points
    15. Christian Moraes, Eastern Ranges, MID, 14 games, 128 points
    16. Tom Beaumont, Tasmania Devils, MID, 12 games, 128 points
    17. Caiden Cleary, Sydney Swans Academy, MID, 4 games, 126 points
    18. Darcy Wilson, Murray Bushrangers, MID, 11 games, 125 points
    19. Harvey Thomas, Oakleigh Chargers/GWS, 6 games, 125 points
    20. Hugo Garcia, Calder Cannons, MID-FWD, 11 games, 125 points
    21. Jedd Longmire, Murray Bushrangers, FWD, 2 games, 124 points
    22. Lachlan Smith, Gippsland Power, RUCK, 12 games, 123 points
    23. Lachlan Charleson, GWV Rebels, MID, 13 games, 122 points
    24. Kynan Brown, Oakleigh Chargers, MID, 12 games, 121 points
    25. Jake Smith, Western Jets, MID, 13 games, 121 points
    26. Harvey Langford, Dandenong Stingrays, MID, 14 games, 121 points
    27. Joel Freijah, GWV Rebels, MID, 14 games, 120 points
    28. Ethan Read, Gold Coast Academy, RUCK, 4 games, 118 points
    29. Ryan Maric*, Gippsland Power, FWD, 3 games, 118 points
    30. Josh Smillie, Eastern Ranges, MID, 8 games, 116 points
    31. Owen Collins, Brisbane Lions Academy, DEF, 1 game, 115 points
    32. Sam Marshall, Sandringham Dragons, DEF, 5 games, 115 points
    33. Murphy Reid, Sandringham Dragons, MID, 8 games, 115 points
    34. Tyson Sruk, Eastern Ranges, DEF, 15 games, 114 points
    35. Kobe Shipp, Dandenong Stingrays, MID, 11 games, 114 points
    36. Xavier Lindsay, Gippsland Power, DEF, 12 games, 111 points
    37. Finn O’Sullivan, Oakleigh Chargers, 8 games, 111 points
    38. Nicholas Watson, Eastern Ranges, FWD, 7 games, 111 points
    39. Sam Lalor, GWV Rebels, MID, 8 games, 111 points
    40. Mitchell Nicholas, Tasmania Devils, MID, 5 games, 111 points
    41. Oscar Ryan, Murray Bushrangers, DEF, 10 games, 110 points
    42. Connor O’Sullivan, Murray Bushrangers, DEF, 9 games, 110 points
    43. Daniel Annable, Brisbane Lions Academy, MID, 4 games, 109 points
    44. Angus Hastie, Geelong Falcons, DEF, 12 games, 109 points
    45. Heath Ollington, Tasmania Devils, FWD, 12 games, 109 points
    46. Patrick Hughes, Geelong Falcons, MID, 15 games, 108 points
    47. Jack Callinan, Tasmania Devils, FWD, 10 games, 108 points
    48. Tom Bower, Oakleigh Chargers, MID-FWD, 5 games, 107 points
    49. Tom Evans, Bendigo Pioneers, MID, 7 games, 107 points
    50. Nate Caddy, Northern Knights, FWD, 9 games, 107 points
    Click to expand...
    I am actually a fan of this guy and I think he is a great Rampe replacement - seems to have size speed and is considered the best field in the draft .. if we get McKay and Grundy .. with pick 22 he could be an option (might still be around)

    If we get McKay and Grundy and keep Melican .. I don’t see much point in moving for GC pick 4 unless we are aiming for Sanders .. O’Sullivan while talented I think is bot a pick 4 / 5 quality atm …

    With pick 11 I reckon we could force bulldogs and hawks to match Croft and the other hawks father son then make our pick on best available

    I think we could use our picks in trades for further picks/points nxt year

    I would love to find some speed at 185cm +

    And a big bodied mid at 190cm +

    While I think Indhi and May are the most likely rookies for us - I do like gander also

    Seems to have all the qualities to play a wing role … size kick marking lil X factor
     
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