List Mgmt. 2023 GWS Giants List Management - Academy, Free Agent, Trade, Draft

[Giant Strides]

Trade Period, October 6–18

• Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
• Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm

Quiet Period, October 19–November 20

• Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
• List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
• List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm

Here's the list of GWS players who are out of contract in 2023 (I'll progressively cross them out as they re-sign):

• Lachie ASH
• Callan WARD (Free Agent)
• Brayden PREUSS
• Tom GREEN
• Finn CALLAGHAN
• Lachlan KEEFFE (Free Agent)
• Jake RICCARDI
• Harry HIMMELBERG (Free Agent)
• Cam FLEETON - delisted (25/9/23)
• Matt FLYNN (Free Agent) - signed by West Coast as an Unrestricted Free Agent
• Xavier O'HALLORAN
• Jack BUCKLEY
• Callum BROWN

Rookie lists:

• Phil DAVIS (Free Agent) - retiring at end of 2023 season
• Jacob WEHR (Free agent)
• Dan LLOYD (Free Agent) - retiring at end of 2023 season
• Cooper HAMILTON
• Wade DERKSEN
• Nick MADDEN (Cat B) - assumed re-signed due to 2 sources of info
• Jason GILBEE (Cat B) - delisted (25/9/23)

Current list sizes (for when we get to list/draft/trade speculation):

• main list = 36 minus 3 (Fleeton, Flynn + Kennedy delisted with a view to be re-selected in the rookie draft)
• rookie A = 6 minus 2 (Davis, Lloyd)
• rookie B = 2 minus 1 (Gilbee)
• total = 44 minus 5

This is the future pick spreadsheet that comes into play only at trade time, as future picks are used in end of season (2023) trading:


Here's the 2023 AFL Academy Squad, so these (roughly) represent the best players for next year as they stand now:

2023 NAB AFL ACADEMY​

NAME	SURNAME	STATE	STATE LEAGUE CLUB	COMMUNITY CLUB
Lachlan	Cabor	NSW/ACT	Sydney Swans Academy	Shellharbour
Nate	Caddy	VIC M	Northern Knights	Yarrambat
Jack	Callinan	TAS	Tasmania Devils	Clarence
Caiden	Cleary	NSW/ACT	Sydney Swans Academy	Sydney University
Daniel	Curtin	WA	Claremont	West Coast
Jack	Delean	SA	South Adelaide	Reynella
Zane	Duursma	VIC C	Gippsland Power	Foster
Mitchell	Edwards	WA	Peel Thunder	South Mandurah
William	Green	VIC M	Northern Knights	Northcote
Riley	Hardeman	WA	Swan Districts	Caversham
William	Lorenz	VIC M	Oakleigh Chargers	Boroondara Hawks
Kane	McAuliffe	SA	North Adelaide	Central Augusta
Colby	McKercher	TAS	Tasmania Devils	Launceston
Ashton	Moir	SA	Glenelg	Plympton
Connor	O'Sullivan	NSW/ACT	Murray Bushrangers	Albury
William	Patton	SA	West Adelaide	Mitcham
Nathan	Philactides	VIC M	Oakleigh Chargers	Blackburn
Ethan	Read	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Palm Beach Currumbin
Archer	Reid	VIC C	Gippsland Power	Inverloch-Kongwak
Harley	Reid	VIC C	Bendigo Pioneers	Tongala
Archie	Roberts	VIC M	Sandringham Dragons	Hampton Rovers
Jake	Rogers	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Broadbeach
Ryley	Sanders	TAS	Sandringham Dragons	North Launceston
Cooper	Simpson	VIC C	Dandenong Stingrays	Mount Martha
George	Stevens	VIC C	GWV Rebels	South Warrnambool
Koltyn	Tholstrup	WA	Subiaco	Newtown-Condingup
Orlando	Turner	NT	West Adelaide	South Alice Springs
Jed	Walter	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Palm Beach Currumbin
Nick	Watson	VIC M	Eastern Ranges	East Ringwood
Darcy	Wilson	VIC C	Murray Bushrangers	Wangaratta Rovers

Happy speculating for 2023!

EDIT: 11/12/22 - Added Free Agent status to OOC player list
EDIT: 24/2/23 - Crossed out Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

from OOC player list! (Woo Hoo!!) & Added 2023 Coates Talent League Fixture Link
EDIT: 27/2/23 - Crossed out Finn Callaghan from OOC player list! (Woo Hoo Hoo!!!)
EDIT: 27/4/23 - Crossed out Jacob Wehr from OOC player list
EDIT: 10/5/23 - Crossed out Jack Buckley from OOC player list
EDIT: 9/7/23 - Crossed out Callum Brown from OOC player list
EDIT: 18/7/23 - Crossed out Lachie Ash from OOC player list
EDIT: 20/7/23 - Crossed out Xavier O'Halloran from OOC player list
EDIT: 3/8/23 - Crossed out Harry Himmelberg from OOC player list
EDIT: 9/8/23 - Crossed out Wade Derksen from OOC player list
EDIT: 17/8/23 - Noted Dan Lloyd retiring at end of season
EDIT: 19/8/23 - Crossed out Jake Riccardi from OOC player list
EDIT: 28/8/23 - Noted Phil Davis

1

Phil Davis

Age

34

Ht

197cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.7

4star

MG

55.5

1star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

55.5

1star

D

14.0

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

retiring at end of season
EDIT: 25/9/23 - Noted Cam Fleeton & Jason Gilbee delisted
EDIT: 4/10/23 - Noted Flynn, Preuss & Keeffe situations
EDIT: 9/10/23 - Updated Flynn to WCE, removed Preuss from OOC player list
EDIT: 12/10/23 - Updated Madden with 2 sources of information
EDIT: 19/10/23 - Updated Keeffe & Hamilton re-signed
EDIT: 31/10/23 - adjusted main list numbers with Adam Kennedy

40

Adam Kennedy

Age

32

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

8.4

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

245.6

4star

D

1.0

1star

K

1.0

1star

HB

0.0

1star

M

0.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

10.0

1star

D

18.6

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.4

4star

delisting (with a view to be re-selected in rookie draft)

 

[Giant Pete]

1st pick needs to be best available and if the recruiters see it as Curtin, Watson, Sanders or O'Sullivan I have confidence in them to make the right choice although we will be able to start looking back at this draft in 4 years to see how those choices are starting to look
A curve ball is if someone throws a live trade at the club that is too good to pass up, Eagles for Curtin if available and possibly the Demons or Crows as they have multiple 1st rounders

There’s every chance if we take Curtin he would end up competing with Cadman for the KPF spot.

 

[Bjo187]

I'll be disappointed if McCormack isn't taken, he has real upside for almost no spend.

 

[Giant Strides]

Is there a scenario where West Coast keep pick 1 and Curtin slides to our pick and they offer us 23 and their Future 1st?

From their perspective he’s very highly rated and if they didn’t take Reid they would take him but they just push go now.

For us the players around our pick are pretty unlikely to get a game next year unless there are a few injuries. Their first selection next year could be Pick 1 in what looks a decent draft?

I definitely think there's a chance that Curtin is there at our pick.

There's several phantom drafts that have Norths overlook him for Duursma, but often then have Hawks take him. But if Hawks take Watson instead (which is many of the other phantom drafts), then Bulldogs would presumably overlook him, and potentially Melbourne too.

The question is whether we would be willing to overlook him to trade our first pick this year. West Coast's first next year would be very tempting - even if not ending up as #1. However, the bigger question would be whether they would do that trade, with the possibility that it could be the #1 pick that they are trading away.

P.S. If we did draft Sanders, I could see him playing a reasonable number of games next year, even without injuries (which we were pretty lucky with this year). I do agree that few others would likely get a look at much first grade time except for a big injury list next year.

 

[Giant Strides]

There’s every chance if we take Curtin he would end up competing with Cadman for the KPF spot.

I think of all the roles that Curtin played at U18 level, KPF was the one in which he least excelled.

 

[Ppollen]

Probably nothing, but this article has AK interviewing Duursma in the last few weeks. Maybe a potential trade scenario if West Coast get 2 and 3? One can only dream....



AFL Draft 2023: Zane Duursma, interview, feature, top 10 prospect, Gippsland Power, Xavier Duursma

28

Xavier Duursma

Age

24

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.5

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

8.5

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.1

4star

CL

1.6

4star

D

13.0

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

4.3

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.3

3star

CL

0.5

3star

D

16.8

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

8.4

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

1.6

4star

, North Melbourne, Vic Country, family, latest news

"Duursma held draft interviews with the likes of GWS coach Adam Kingsley

Adam Kingsley

Age

49

Ht

183cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.9

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.4

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

(pick 7), North Melbourne’s Alastair Clarkson (picks 2 and 3) and Hawthorn’s Sam Mitchell (pick 4) in recent weeks."

 

[Giant Strides]

I'll be disappointed if McCormack isn't taken, he has real upside for almost no spend.

There's a few scenarios that could play out here IMHO, if we take what Adrian Caruso has said as true:

• ideal: we take the 3 ND picks that Adrian has now said a few times, and neither Thomas nor McCormack are bid on, in which case, either:
  • we can list Thomas as a Cat A rookie & McCormack as Cat B rookie to complete our list numbers (Kennedy to be rookied too), or
  • we list Thomas as Cat B rookie, and invite McCormack back as an U19 in the GWS Academy next year & have a spare list spot; or
• sub-optimal: someone bids on Thomas late, we match, and he becomes the 4th ND selection; in which case we take McCormack as Cat B rookie, or
• really sub-optimal: someone bids on Thomas before our 3rd pick, in which case we either:
  • match, take a 4th ND selection, and take McCormack as Cat B rookie, or
  • don't match, and take McCormack as Cat B rookie.

In some of those cases we don't need to take Charlie as a Cat B rookie, but if we have no-one else on the list, we may as well.

There's a bit of flexibility with Charlie - notwithstanding your wish - if he's not bid on (which I doubt will occur), depending on how we see him. But, as you say, a free hit really either on the Cat B rookie list, or another year in the academy (with matching rights still attached for 2024 ND).

 

[Giant Strides]

Probably nothing, but this article has AK interviewing Duursma in the last few weeks. Maybe a potential trade scenario if West Coast get 2 and 3? One can only dream....

"Duursma held draft interviews with the likes of GWS coach Adam Kingsley (pick 7), North Melbourne’s Alastair Clarkson (picks 2 and 3) and Hawthorn’s Sam Mitchell (pick 4) in recent weeks."

You would think primarily as due diligence, as I really doubt Duursma drops to our pick ... but you never know, and the team need to cover all eventualities.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

My (very laid back) thoughts on this draft (and all the others) is - we’ll take who we take and they’ll either work out or they won’t.


drafts are a lottery and ultimately mean very little. How a player plays as a junior in junior competition against other juniors is not really an indication of how they’ll go at senior level. Haynes was drafted as a forward. Jezza spent a large chunk of his junior footy and the 2011 NEAFL season coming off half back (and indeed lined up in the back pocket game 1 2012 v Sydney). Whitfield plays his best footy off half back, which we would never have known if Zac Williams hadn’t been injured. Connor Idun

39

Connor Idun

Age

24

Ht

193cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

74.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

74.0

1star

was taken pick 61 - Tom Brady was taken pick 199 - the last player picked in his draft year. Back in the day the word was that Gary Ablett Jr would be an ok player, but just you wait until you see his younger brother Nathan - now there’s a future superstar to match his old man.

we will take who we will take and they will work out or they won’t. That’s footy.

 

[Orange crush]

My (very laid back) thoughts on this draft (and all the others) is - we’ll take who we take and they’ll either work out or they won’t.


drafts are a lottery and ultimately mean very little. How a player plays as a junior in junior competition against other juniors is not really an indication of how they’ll go at senior level. Haynes was drafted as a forward. Jezza spent a large chunk of his junior footy and the 2011 NEAFL season coming off half back (and indeed lined up in the back pocket game 1 2012 v Sydney). Whitfield plays his best footy off half back, which we would never have known if Zac Williams hadn’t been injured. Connor Idun was taken pick 61 - Tom Brady was taken pick 199 - the last player picked in his draft year. Back in the day the word was that Gary Ablett Jr would be an ok player, but just you wait until you see his younger brother Nathan - now there’s a future superstar to match his old man.

we will take who we will take and they will work out or they won’t. That’s footy.

Very zen, big guy. But I agree … still we need to focus on getting quality kids character-wise

 

[Giant Strides]

My (very laid back) thoughts on this draft (and all the others) is - we’ll take who we take and they’ll either work out or they won’t.

we will take who we will take and they will work out or they won’t. That’s footy.

I agree, and I do need to release the grip.

But if we all went zen, there'd be nothing to talk about in BF after GF day until pre-season starts!

 

[Giant Pete]

My (very laid back) thoughts on this draft (and all the others) is - we’ll take who we take and they’ll either work out or they won’t.


drafts are a lottery and ultimately mean very little. How a player plays as a junior in junior competition against other juniors is not really an indication of how they’ll go at senior level. Haynes was drafted as a forward. Jezza spent a large chunk of his junior footy and the 2011 NEAFL season coming off half back (and indeed lined up in the back pocket game 1 2012 v Sydney). Whitfield plays his best footy off half back, which we would never have known if Zac Williams hadn’t been injured. Connor Idun was taken pick 61 - Tom Brady was taken pick 199 - the last player picked in his draft year. Back in the day the word was that Gary Ablett Jr would be an ok player, but just you wait until you see his younger brother Nathan - now there’s a future superstar to match his old man.

we will take who we will take and they will work out or they won’t. That’s footy.

I do largely agree with this. The most important thing is the culture the club creates through the leaders.
Then it’s about gamestyle.

We are on the right track.

Get your memberships in order for next season, and try to get a friend on board

 

[Brave New World]

I think of all the roles that Curtin played at U18 level, KPF was the one in which he least excelled.

Is there much difference between Curtain and O'Sullivan as key position players? I would think that the go home factor would be a bigger risk with Curtin, even if it's considered minimal; so if there is little between the two perhaps O'Sullivan is a wiser long-term choice

 

[Orange crush]

Is there much difference between Curtain and O'Sullivan as key position players? I would think that the go home factor would be a bigger risk with Curtin, even if it's considered minimal; so if there is little between the two perhaps O'Sullivan is a wiser long-term choice

I’d rather O’Sullivan

 

[Giant Strides]

Is there much difference between Curtain and O'Sullivan as key position players? I would think that the go home factor would be a bigger risk with Curtin, even if it's considered minimal; so if there is little between the two perhaps O'Sullivan is a wiser long-term choice

I don't think there's a huge amount, but Curtin universally is rated higher than O'Sullivan - presumably with due reason.

I'll quote PMBangers as a draftwatcher with more intel/analysis than me:

"I think playing as a 3rd tall in the backline is probably going to be where Curtin finds his feet best, and will likely be one of the main distributors out of the defensive half given his kicking ability. In general I think he's a superb prospect, there's really not much he doesn't do to a high level when given a defined role."

And, when asked which of the KPDs would best develop into a lockdown-type KPD:

"I think O'Sullivan has the most potential to turn into that guy, but he, like Curtin, is most impactful when allowed to move further up the field and play a more intercept focused game."

I guess we expect Curtin to be off the board by our pick, whereas there's a very high probability than O'Sullivan is available; and O'Sullivan has the attraction of being a NSW lad rather than a WA lad, so less "go home" attraction - although the club would presumably be checking his "attraction to a big Melbourne club".

 

[Giant Strides]

Something worth considering is our wingers… and specifically, left vs right footers.
I get a bit annoyed when we play left footers on both sides… the fact that they can’t hit that 45 kick when on the right side of the ground is not good at all.

Yes, this frustrates me too. Given they do it so often, they don't seem to care?

IIRC, Darcy Wilson is a right footer; he'd certainly start off on a wing; Caleb Windsor too is a right footer who would play wing. I think those kids have been linked to us too? Maybe we're focussed on speed.

If we did target one of those, rather than Sanders/Curtin/Caddy/O'Sullivan, there might be an opportunity to trade back a few places to a team such as Essendon or Adelaide who did want whoever was available at our pick. Drop back, get who we prefer anyway, and get a bonus pick this year or next into the bargain.

I'd still want to get a kid who could play inside midfield with a later pick ... still think we're undermanned in that role for back-up and injury cover.

 

[Brave New World]

I'd still want to get a kid who could play inside midfield with a later pick ... still think we're undermanned in that role for back-up and injury cover.

Maybe George Stevens. I have seen him in some opinions suggest he could go later in the 30's and 40's. Or maybe me just being unduly myopic?

 

[Giant Strides]

Maybe George Stevens. I have seen him in some opinions suggest he could go later in the 30's and 40's. Or maybe me just being unduly myopic?

Personally, I'm not a huge George Stevens fan, as I'm not sure he'll project as an inside mid long term at AFL level due to his speed. And I'll accept that this draft is limited in the inside mid choices. But depending on whether it's our second or third selection we use, and whether we could trade our current picks around, there are a few guys in certain parts of the draft who could fit the bill without reaching too early.

Harry de Mattia, Charlie Edwards (although he would be somewhat of a project), Clay Hall, Kane McAuliffe late are some of those. We could also bid on Caiden Cleary (Swans academy) and/or Will Graham (Suns Academy) - again pick dependent. They are all inside mids with some speed, which is where I have a concern with Stevens. There's also someone like Shaun Mannagh as a mature selection (think he's 26) who may well be there at #43, if we want a reliable guy to slot into VFL primarily but capable of filling in at AFL level to cover injuries.

 

[Orange crush]

Personally, I'm not a huge George Stevens fan, as I'm not sure he'll project as an inside mid long term at AFL level due to his speed. And I'll accept that this draft is limited in the inside mid choices. But depending on whether it's our second or third selection we use, and whether we could trade our current picks around, there are a few guys in certain parts of the draft who could fit the bill without reaching too early.

Harry de Mattia, Charlie Edwards (although he would be somewhat of a project), Clay Hall, Kane McAuliffe late are some of those. We could also bid on Caiden Cleary (Swans academy) and/or Will Graham (Suns Academy) - again pick dependent. They are all inside mids with some speed, which is where I have a concern with Stevens. There's also someone like Shaun Mannagh as a mature selection (think he's 26) who may well be there at #43, if we want a reliable guy to slot into VFL primarily but capable of filling in at AFL level to cover injuries.

Lots of people saying Mannagh is ready to play day 1 …. Mannagh from heaven so to speak

 

[PMBangers]

Is there much difference between Curtain and O'Sullivan as key position players? I would think that the go home factor would be a bigger risk with Curtin, even if it's considered minimal; so if there is little between the two perhaps O'Sullivan is a wiser long-term choice

O'Sullivan is a better intercept marker but arguably not as good by foot and not as accountable defensively as Curtin. Not a slouch by foot but not as creative or precise particularly in space.

 

[eaglevision]

I definitely think there's a chance that Curtin is there at our pick.

There's several phantom drafts that have Norths overlook him for Duursma, but often then have Hawks take him. But if Hawks take Watson instead (which is many of the other phantom drafts), then Bulldogs would presumably overlook him, and potentially Melbourne too.

The question is whether we would be willing to overlook him to trade our first pick this year. West Coast's first next year would be very tempting - even if not ending up as #1. However, the bigger question would be whether they would do that trade, with the possibility that it could be the #1 pick that they are trading away.

P.S. If we did draft Sanders, I could see him playing a reasonable number of games next year, even without injuries (which we were pretty lucky with this year). I do agree that few others would likely get a look at much first grade time except for a big injury list next year.

Great question, we’ve discussed this a while back. The trade would have to assume our F1 is pick 1 or 2 so the deal would be
WCE OUT: F1,58
GWS OUT:7,16,F1
How does that sit? I know most of our board would not be keen.

 

[Giant Pete]

Great question, we’ve discussed this a while back. The trade would have to assume our F1 is pick 1 or 2 so the deal would be
WCE OUT: F1,58
GWS OUT:7,16,F1
How does that sit? I know most of our board would not be keen.

No. That’s ridiculous.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Great question, we’ve discussed this a while back. The trade would have to assume our F1 is pick 1 or 2 so the deal would be
WCE OUT: F1,58
GWS OUT:7,16,F1
How does that sit? I know most of our board would not be keen.

Wow what an offer..

 

[Giant Strides]

I rest my case.

Curtin it is for Giants, curtains for Eagles! (Or we trade with another club.)

The point for our Eagles friend - and no slight on you posting on our board, thanks for some direct input - is that Eagles would be initiating such a trade, not Giants. But I do agree with you, that Eagles would ask for too much to make it viable trade proposition.

 

[eaglevision]

I rest my case.

Curtin it is for Giants, curtains for Eagles! (Or we trade with another club.)

The point for our Eagles friend - and no slight on you posting on our board, thanks for some direct input - is that Eagles would be initiating such a trade, not Giants. But I do agree with you, that Eagles would ask for too much to make it viable trade proposition.

No way Curtin gets past Dees pick 6. It would be nice to get Curtin but I wasn’t targeting him specifically. I just think assuming we take Reid this year we need more picks out of our 1st pick next year which is almost certainly pick 1/2. GWS,MELB,ADEL all could do a deal but sounds like I can remove at least one of those from the list!

 

[PMBangers]

Curtin supposedly a pretty big flight risk which would be something we consider heavily I assume