2023 Hawthorn List Management Discussion (including Trade, FA period)

[The Chad and I]

OK get to the point, who do you think deserves to be in the leadership group that isn't there?

You're missing the point.
We have young players with potential, but they don't deserve to be in the LG yet.
I still maintain this LG is quite thin vs previous standards.
People getting upset about a fairly obvious observation IMO.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Why? Because being vocal makes you a good leader!

I think Michael Tuck might disagree with you.

No because we have a very young group and they need guidance, direction and encouragement. Punk was fairly reserved but his leadership has really shone through over the last couple of years firstly with the forwards and now with the entire group.

 

[Blackhawk42]

You're missing the point.
We have young players with potential, but they don't deserve to be in the LG yet.
I still maintain this LG is quite thin vs previous standards.
People getting upset about a fairly obvious observation IMO.

Different groups require different forms of leadership. This new leadership group is only 'thin' by comparison to our previous eras when you consider that we had a completely different group of players that evolved in their own unique way.

If Dylan Moore and Mitch Lewis has begun their careers in 2011 there is every chance they would have developed into leaders throughout our three-peat.

We don't have the ability to drop those two boys into the past. We can allow them the time to lead this current young group who look up to them like the rookies in 2013 did to Hodge and Mitch however.

 

[HedgeFund]

You're missing the point.
We have young players with potential, but they don't deserve to be in the LG yet.
I still maintain this LG is quite thin vs previous standards.
People getting upset about a fairly obvious observation IMO.

Agreed.

The fact a guy (Moore) who was delisted at the end of 2020 can now be our VC is evidence of that.

He’s effectively gone from player 45 (last cut) to player 2 (captain if Sicily injured) in two seasons.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Agreed.

The fact a guy (Moore) who was delisted at the end of 2020 can now be our VC is evidence of that.

He’s effectively gone from player 45 (last cut) to player 2 (captain if Sicily injured) in two seasons.

Such a bad take.

Moore is being judged on his output over the last two years and his leadership out on the ground and at training under Sam.
Sam has said himself that Moorey is like another coach out on the ground and plays where he thinks he is needed.

 

[HedgeFund]

Such a bad take.

Moore is being judged on his output over the last two years and his leadership out on the ground and at training under Sam.
Sam has said himself that Moorey is like another coach out on the ground and plays where he thinks he is needed.

Compared to others on our list….who haven’t shown the same traits.

I’m a massive Moore fan. Said it several times before. I’m not being critical of him at all.

Fact is, we don’t have the depth of leadership on our list to have other more experienced candidates (5 -8 seasons, 100 - 200 gamers) step into the VC role.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Young list has young leaders, im shocked

No reason to be critical of depth of leaders when its still developing

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Compared to others on our list….who haven’t shown the same traits.

I’m a massive Moore fan. Said it several times before. I’m not being critical of him at all.

Fact is, we don’t have the depth of leadership on our list to have other more experienced candidates (5 -8 seasons, 100 - 200 gamers) step into the VC role.

But you are being critical of him, because you’re making some sort of argument that his leadership ability is linked or lessened by the fact that he once was delisted, rather than the actual output and performance in recent times and the glowing public review his coach has given him for his leadership.

 

[KermitJagger]

You're missing the point.
We have young players with potential, but they don't deserve to be in the LG yet.
I still maintain this LG is quite thin vs previous standards.
People getting upset about a fairly obvious observation IMO.

People are just rightly pointing out that it's a dumb observation because you're comparing it to an era specifically known for its depth and quality of leadership.

Comparison is the thief of joy, buddy.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

 

[Yardie]

The team is being built around big Ned…

First thing I noticed was how ****ing tall is Ned. Followed by Ramsden's neck!

 

[cryptor]

First thing I noticed was how ******* tall is Ned. Followed by Ramsden's neck!

Ned makes Nash look "short" which is just crazy.

 

[CHUBBSS]

First thing I noticed was how ******* tall is Ned. Followed by Ramsden's neck!

imagine 2/3 years from now when Ned, Lewis, meek and Ramsden are all men, going to be some serious monsters in the side. All hard workers to…

 

[samjonesy1234]

Sorry, but the footy dept have put it on the record as being something they need. It’s also something we’ve already seen.

MacDonald, Ward and Butler were all given games in 2022 without needing great form at Box Hill.

Mentioning rookies like a Saunders, Callow and players with clear difficiencies like Downie is a completely false equivalency.

We have a bunch of highly touted youngsters taken in the earlier parts of the draft that need games under their belt. Not speculative rookies, and not delisted 24yr olds.

Ward, MacDonald, Stephens, Butler, MacKenzie, Hurstwaite and even O’Sullivan and Weddle absolutely need to be given the midfield/wing rotations and minutes that will be on offer over Calllum Brown.

Saunders kicked 6 for Norwood against the crows in a practice game……..

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Saunders kicked 6 for Norwood against the crows in a practice game……..

Mighty mouse! I hope he goes well.

 

[HedgeFund]

But you are being critical of him, because you’re making some sort of argument that his leadership ability is linked or lessened by the fact that he once was delisted, rather than the actual output and performance in recent times and the glowing public review his coach has given him for his leadership.

Where did I ever say that?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

No I wasn’t at all.

Where did I say that?

You agreed our leadership is thin, and then made the following post as evidence.

The fact a guy (Moore) who was delisted at the end of 2020 can now be our VC is evidence of that.

He’s effectively gone from player 45 (last cut) to player 2 (captain if Sicily injured) in two seasons.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

shouldnt the fact he went from list fringes to a top 5 payer at the club in that span suggest development isnt linear

 

[HedgeFund]

You agreed our leadership is thin, and then made the following post as evidence.

That’s not a criticism of Moore though is it?

Nowhere did I say it wasn’t deserved.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

That’s not a criticism of Moore though is it?

Nowhere did I say it wasn’t deserved.

In that post are you not making out like a delisted player shot straight into consideration for the captaincy on the back of how thin our leadership is, rather than how much of a leader Moore is?

 

[Dewnior]

First thing I noticed was how ******* tall is Ned. Followed by Ramsden's neck!

Who's neck is longer, Ramma or Hustwaite?

 

[HedgeFund]

In that post are you not making out like a delisted player shot straight into consideration for the captaincy on the back of how thin our leadership is, rather than how much of a leader Moore is?

A combination of two factors.

1. His rapid improvement

2. our leadership being dramatically thinned out through trades, retirements and delistings.

Are you suggesting these two facts can’t co-exist?

I think they both can (and guess what? - it’s no criticism of Moore).

 

[The Chad and I]

People are just rightly pointing out that it's a dumb observation because you're comparing it to an era specifically known for its depth and quality of leadership.

Comparison is the thief of joy, buddy.

It's not dumb, it's accurate.
You choose to lower your standards and expectations.

 

[arupist]

You're missing the point.
We have young players with potential, but they don't deserve to be in the LG yet.
I still maintain this LG is quite thin vs previous standards.
People getting upset about a fairly obvious observation IMO.

Curious to know why you think this LG is thin, as you put it. Are you saying that since they are not as good at footy as those you previously listed, then they can't be good leaders? Are you saying that the previous group were good leaders and this group are not good leaders? If so, how do you know?

Not sure I see how you are coming to these conclusions.

The best leaders are not necessarily the best players.

 

[MasterSamurai]

The leadership group will be bolstered in the next two years with the emergence of Ward, Day , McDonald, Newcombe and even DGB , just needs time and patience. Need organic growth and maturity before we go all Carlton (Murphy) on them!