2023 ICC Men's Cricket World Cup Game 10 Australia v South Africa 12/10 1900hrs @ Ekana Sports City

[greyhound punter]

Jhye Richardson's injury certainly didn't help.

However my point stands when you include the other 2 formats. How did we go in the latest T20 WC? How did the final two Ashes tests go? The last match at the GABBA of the 2020/21 Border- Gavaskar?

I'm never going to question how good the big 3 are. It's just that we are over reliant on them.

Would replacing Starc with Neser in the BG trophy in 2020/21 have won us the game? maybe not. Same with Cummins in the final Ashes test.

We don't know, because we never try it.

And it's cost us.

People are forgetting that fast bowler's performance can fall off a cliff in their 30s. Jason Gillespie in 2004 v India (in India) looked like he could bowl for the next 10 years.....8 months later and he is being tonked around by a club cricketer in Geraint Jones.

J.Hazlewood isnt the same bowler he was 12 months ago, nor is Starc, and if we are being honest, nor is Cummins.

As I have said previously, dark times ahead.

 

[JackOutback]

Said it before, but Australia underperformed at the last World Cup and have brought a lot of the same names to this one. What did they think would happen different. Warner has been cooked for years, he couldn't score last night, which put pressure on Marsh to change his game and accelerate early, which cost him his wicket. Stoinis and Maxwell are living on past glory, the bowlers aren't a cohesive unit. There's more.

 

[BStaff17]

Said it before, but Australia underperformed at the last World Cup and have brought a lot of the same names to this one. What did they think would happen different. Warner has been cooked for years, he couldn't score last night, which put pressure on Marsh to change his game and accelerate early, which cost him his wicket. Stoinis and Maxwell are living on past glory, the bowlers aren't a cohesive unit. There's more.

What's stoinis past glories.

140 odd at Eden Park 6 years ago.

Once in a lifetime innings on a postage stamp that he hasn't come close to producing again.

 

[corbies]

Said it before, but Australia underperformed at the last World Cup and have brought a lot of the same names to this one. What did they think would happen different. Warner has been cooked for years, he couldn't score last night, which put pressure on Marsh to change his game and accelerate early, which cost him his wicket. Stoinis and Maxwell are living on past glory, the bowlers aren't a cohesive unit. There's more.

What's Warner done wrong in ODI cricket? He scored 647 runs and was 2nd on the run scoring list at the last World Cup and since then he's averaged 42 at a strike rate of 98. This year he's averaging 40 at a strike rate of 110. He's legitimately been Australia's most consistent ODI player since he returned from suspension.

 

[PhatBoy]

What's Warner done wrong in ODI cricket? He scored 647 runs and was 2nd on the run scoring list at the last World Cup and since then he's averaged 42 at a strike rate of 98. This year he's averaging 40 at a strike rate of 110. He's legitimately been Australia's most consistent ODI player since he returned from suspension.

I never really liked the guy and it took me a while to admit that he was quality - and he has never, SA aside, legitimately answered the ‘overseas test performance’ question but I’m baffled as to how quick Aussie fans are to forget how decent he has been over a long period

 

[Belnakor]

Said it before, but Australia underperformed at the last World Cup and have brought a lot of the same names to this one. What did they think would happen different. Warner has been cooked for years, he couldn't score last night, which put pressure on Marsh to change his game and accelerate early, which cost him his wicket. Stoinis and Maxwell are living on past glory, the bowlers aren't a cohesive unit. There's more.

tbh mate Ive been over Warner for quite sometime and he should have been dropped from the test team a long time ago. But he is literally our most reliable bat in ODIs. Yes he does soak up a few deliveries but thats his role. When he has someone like Head throwing the bat then it totally makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is playing Marsh in Head's role. Marsh plays normal shots that go for runs with his power. He isn't a Head who is going to throw the bat and strike at 200+. So by having Marsh play in the wrong role it makes it look like Warner is doing something wrong when hes not.

agree 100% on Stonis.

Maxwell is brutally out of form but we made no effort to get any other finisher into the team, aside from throwing David a few matches way too late in the year.

Green has been ruined batting at 7 so I can see why they bought Stonis back but i think the obvious move is to bat Green as an opener to throw the bat.

 

[Westend]

I never really liked the guy and it took me a while to admit that he was quality - and he has never, SA aside, legitimately answered the ‘overseas test performance’ question but I’m baffled as to how quick Aussie fans are to forget how decent he has been over a long period

No is see Davey ODI record as still very good test no way..

but i think people are just getting tired/bored of the same players time and time again .....the aussie public want some new blood IMHO

 

[Westend]

tbh mate Ive been over Warner for quite sometime and he should have been dropped from the test team a long time ago. But he is literally our most reliable bat in ODIs. Yes he does soak up a few deliveries but thats his role. When he has someone like Head throwing the bat then it totally makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is playing Marsh in Head's role. Marsh plays normal shots that go for runs with his power. He isn't a Head who is going to throw the bat and strike at 200+. So by having Marsh play in the wrong role it makes it look like Warner is doing something wrong when hes not.

agree 100% on Stonis.

Maxwell is brutally out of form but we made no effort to get any other finisher into the team, aside from throwing David a few matches way too late in the year.

Green has been ruined batting at 7 so I can see why they bought Stonis back but i think the obvious move is to bat Green as an opener to throw the bat.

You have been saying on this forum for months Belnakor that green is batting out of position at seven...and I 100% agree with you. I would like to see green at 5 in the top six...and the keeper bat where the bloody keeper should at seven. Yeah they could use green as opener....just not at seven its stupid

 

[corbies]

tbh mate Ive been over Warner for quite sometime and he should have been dropped from the test team a long time ago. But he is literally our most reliable bat in ODIs. Yes he does soak up a few deliveries but thats his role. When he has someone like Head throwing the bat then it totally makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is playing Marsh in Head's role. Marsh plays normal shots that go for runs with his power. He isn't a Head who is going to throw the bat and strike at 200+. So by having Marsh play in the wrong role it makes it look like Warner is doing something wrong when hes not.

agree 100% on Stonis.

Maxwell is brutally out of form but we made no effort to get any other finisher into the team, aside from throwing David a few matches way too late in the year.

Green has been ruined batting at 7 so I can see why they bought Stonis back but i think the obvious move is to bat Green as an opener to throw the bat.

Does Warner even soak up that many balls? Of players at the World Cup who have faced at least 20 balls in the powerplay this year only 3 have a better strike rate than Warner and one of them is Travis Head. Another is Rachin Ravindra who has played 1 innings during the powerplay.

It's better than Marsh, Rohit, Gill, Malan, Bairstow, Conway, Kohli, De Kock etc etc.

 

[JackOutback]

If you look at Warner's past 10 innings, there's one hundred, a 78 and four scores between 41 and 56. There were two years between his second last century and third last. He doesn't go on with it as much as he used to and doesn't score as quickly, which is vital in modern cricket when the field is up. That can be papered over when others are firing at the top of the order. But Warner is past his best and they should have used the last two years to find his replacement. I get that it's too late for that now and he's probably the best of a bad choice, but it goes back to what I said about making the same mistakes over and over.

 

[corbies]

If you look at Warner's past 10 innings, there's one hundred, a 78 and four scores between 41 and 56. There were two years between his second last century and third last. He doesn't go on with it as much as he used to and doesn't score as quickly, which is vital in modern cricket when the field is up. That can be papered over when others are firing at the top of the order. But Warner is past his best and they should have used the last two years to find his replacement. I get that it's too late for that now and he's probably the best of a bad choice, but it goes back to what I said about making the same mistakes over and over.

In those 10 innings you've highlighted he's striking at 112. Players at this World Cup with a better strike rate opening the batting this year:

- Travis Head 142
- Mitchell Marsh 119
- Rohit Sharma 116

That's it. 2 Australians and the best ODI opener of all time. Seems to be keeping up with modern cricket just fine.

 

[Gough]

I worry that we're going to lose two or three core players all at once yet again.

 

[akkaps]

I worry that we're going to lose two or three core players all at once yet again

That's the result of sticking with one side for so long, and not bringing in fresh blood to stagger the ages of the players

 

[MJG14]

I feel like people are using Warner's Test form to criticise his ODI form. He is approaching the end but I don't think he is as big of an issue as people suggest. I think he is still in the best side.

 

[RookiePick]

Interesting data and proves this stupid ‘we’ve been left behind tactically’ argument is silly.

It's simply the same issue Australia has across all formats.

Our batsmen are front runners and our bowlers are resistant to adapting to the circumstances they find themselves in.

Fortunately we have some very talented cricketers and Plan A gets the job a fair old whack of the time.

We've been exposed in the first 2 matches against 2 of the better sides. Let's see what happens from here. A winnable match against SL next up and a bit of confidence might just be the tonic to get us over Pakistan.

 

[Santana]

Said it before, but Australia underperformed at the last World Cup and have brought a lot of the same names to this one.

I am not sure you can say we underperformed at the last World Cup going by this logic. We finished 2nd on the table and lost the semi to the host team that went on to win it.

 

[Belnakor]

You have been saying on this forum for months Belnakor that green is batting out of position at seven...and I 100% agree with you.

i'm beginning to sound like one of those guys on the footy team boards who rates X player and wants him to get more games even though he's bog average lol. oh well, hopefully we try a few things in the summer against weaker opposition.

 

[Santana]

Green definitely feels like he is being mismanaged and it would be having an impact on his development. He should have been playing with a bit more confidence after being in the team for 3 years.

 

[Burtonsgottago]

When it's played in January, the majority of people lose their s**t because they want those players playing in the BBL rather than the pointless ODI series.

Personally, I think the BBL is a useless series

 

[Belnakor]

Green definitely feels like he is being mismanaged and it would be having an impact on his development. He should have been playing with a bit more confidence after being in the team for 3 years.

I think people forget hes a young bloke, i believe from the Indian tour to the end of the ashes he spent one day at home in like ~5 months which is pretty insane. yes he wanted to play the IPL for the coin but that is a brutal schedule for someone of his age.

Even punter got dropped, would make sense for him to skip any home ODIs/T20 in favor of shield cricket to get a bit of touch back.

 

[cricketnut14]

I worry that we're going to lose two or three core players all at once yet again.

problem is 7 players still remain from the 2015 world cup warner, smith, maxwell, marsh, cummins, starc, hazlewood.

the odi game has moved on in leaps and bounds since then and those above players don't play regularly any longer.


11 of the current 15 man squad are 30+ and agar who was in the inital squad turns 30 tomorrow and we'd be lucky if any make it to the next world cup, that's if odi cricket is still about.

only green, marnus, head and inglis are the under 30's

 

[Hamingja]

That's the result of sticking with one side for so long, and not bringing in fresh blood to stagger the ages of the players

There isn't a lot of fresh blood out there. Butchering the domestic 50 over competition 10+ years ago has now come home to roost.

22/23 Season

Most Runs

Hughes
Philippe
Doran
Bancroft
Jewell

Most Wickets

Rogers
Tye
Thornton
Behrendorff
Neser

21/22 Season

Most Runs

Renshaw
Head
Philippe
Carey
Turner

Most Wickets

Tye
Siddle
Sandhu
Pope
Bazley

20/21 Season

Most Runs

Handscomb
Head
Whiteman
Smith
Green

Most Wickets

Paris
Abbott
Kuhnemann
Bird
Merlo

Ugly reading from a national prospects POV. Philippe hasn't set the world on fire when he has played at international level so far but outside of the guys already in the team in Head and Green he would be about the only one from that list that I look at and go he might have the talent to step up at some stage moving forward.

 

[1990crow]

Stoinis is a state league level player
Lab and Smith shouldn't be batting one after the other
Cummins has been a disaster as captain. And his bowling isn't good enough to be in the side currently.
McDonald as coach equally terrible appointment.

 

[Manbearpig77]

I don’t believe in ‘trying things’ for big games, if you’ve got weapons in your arsenal that have proven themselves as often as not.
Yes sport is littered with examples of fairy tails where someone comes in and proves to be the difference maker but in almost every case it’s borne out of necessity rather than a calculated risk.

Alan Langer called into the Queensland side for the 2001 origin decider because they had no other options, Marlion Pickett wasn’t selected to drop someone, he was selected because Jack Graham couldn’t play.

If you’re going to try those alternative guys waiting in the wings, I think percentages dictate that you always try them when the need is at its lowest. You don’t just dump them in at a World Cup or in a must win game because you can, when there are other better credentialed players

If you implement a rotation policy, then these players don't become "fairytales".

On top of that, it also comes down to basic man management.

"Hey. Pat Cummins is about to play 6 tests in 2 months. Maybe we strategically rest him in the middle of that run?"

If you aren't so reliant on 3 key bowlers you could have swung in Neser who probably already should have played several tests by that point.

Look at what India did to us with their "C team" on our home soil.

Also. 3 formats is A LOT, particularly for fast bowlers. Having specialised players for specific formats is the future. Hell, it's the present. We're stuck in the past.

 

[SC_Power]

I feel like people are using Warner's Test form to criticise his ODI form. He is approaching the end but I don't think he is as big of an issue as people suggest. I think he is still in the best side.

There were some valid criticisms of his IPL form wasn’t there?