Training 2023 Pre Season

[bird_man]

Thats not what i recall but whatever, point is people have turned down better deals elsewhere so its not unprecendented, i doubt we would have gone anywhere near the GC deal (much like the Ellis thing with Richmond) but i still lament losing Longy.

I’ve never heard of him being offered a 3 year deal. It was always just interest from GC.

Yes, players turn down bigger contracts all the time, but as has been pointed out, rarely are these fringe players mid way through their career.

I always liked Longs hardness, but just never took the opportunities given to him. In the end I think we did quite well to get a 2nd rounder for him, which ended up being Ollie Hotton who I was a big fan of pre draft.

Seem like a genuine win win win

 

[phantom13]

Seem to remember it was 4 years x $500K pa.

I mean i love Longy but nah, would we have gone to 3 years x $400k...

Still probably not. Good choice for him and good choice from us. Ill still miss him, the heart doesnt need to be rational.

 

[Cairnsman]

What is this chaos ball we are allegedly practising, can anyone confirm if this is reality or just assumed and if it is now part of our game plan is it because of our poor skills?

 

[The Boar]

If Long had stayed, there is no way he'd be playing in the backline this year.

He is behind Sinclair, NWM, Coffield, Paton, Webster, Clark. He'd be going toe-to-toe with Stocker for 5th or 6th in line.

He had multiple years and multiple positions to establish himself and couldn't. Exchanging him for Hotton in the Draft was a good step forward. Good luck to Long, he made the right choice in leaving.

 

[phantom13]

I’ve never heard of him being offered a 3 year deal. It was always just interest from GC.

Yes, players turn down bigger contracts all the time, but as has been pointed out, rarely are these fringe players mid way through their career.

I always liked Longs hardness, but just never took the opportunities given to him. In the end I think we did quite well to get a 2nd rounder for him, which ended up being Ollie Hotton who I was a big fan of pre draft.

Seem like a genuine win win win

I very distinctly recall on the Amazon doco his manager being like, GC is a genuine 3 year deal (or maybe plan?). Then Dunstan got the pitch from Goodwin and got all horned up. It doesnt really matter in the end, hes kicking the dew off at Casey.

Again, for complete clarity, im not mad at Longy or the club, he made the best and smartest decision for himself and his family and we made a smart list management decision, that doesnt preclude those of us who loved Longy lamenting what could have been, let us mourn man.

 

[phantom13]

What is this chaos ball we are allegedly practising, can anyone confirm if this is reality or just assumed and if it is now part of our game plan is it because of our poor skills?

Id assume its a mode of play like Richmond, just get the ball forward by all means and keep players and pressure around the ball with structure behind it.

Certainly wouldnt be an all the time thing. Collingwood did it a bit last year too to pretty good effect.

 

[Saints43]

I used to be heavy on the hickey train. Feel somewhat vindicated now with how both careers have panned out.

Hickey played some really complete games for us where he'd ruck pretty well and then go forward an look genuinely dangerous.
But the next week would look like a timid kid thrown into a professional game.
It's not surprising that when he came good it was very late in his career.
We would have hated him by the time he was regularly decent if he'd stayed.

 

[gringo2011]

We need to do better in the midfield, otherwise, no finals for us.

I don't think it's that inside brigade that was the issue. Failure to exploit the stand rule, slower movement than a lot of the competition and not keeping up with the evolution of the game probably more of an issue. And a dysfunctional forward structure.

Geelong and Collingwood were using very sparing inside brigades and dishing out. Crisp was about their only permanent inside mid with DeGoey playing some time forward and Taylor Adams injured. Melbourne, Carlton and Bulldogs were the three sides with bulk inside mids and they were less impacting last season.

There seems to be much less emphasis on bulk touches too. Players who had mountains of ball were less valued as clubs worked out 44 one-two possessions from a guy like Macrae are worth much less than 22 possessions from DeGoey who hit 8 guys up out on a flank from his clearances.

 

[Saints43]

He played the whole of 2020 as a defender and then the first chunk of 2021 as well before eventually being dropped due to poor form

In the end he was given every opportunity to show he had what it takes to be a defender but it couldn't cement his spot

Unfortunately for him that meant he was used as a Mr fix it it different areas, but not after he wasn't given a decent opportunity first

Agree. Considering the inconsistency of good contribution it seems rich that he'd complain about any type of opportunity provided for him.

 

[gringo2011]

Seem to remember it was 4 years x $500K pa.

I doubt that. They had to let Bowes go with a FRDP because they were bursting at the seems. If they did that they deserve to fold.

 

[phantom13]

Actually has anyone from training seen what were doing with the stand rule? I personally hope were getting back the 5 to cover the play on but id be curious to know what Ross is drilling

 

[gringo2011]

Id assume its a mode of play like Richmond, just get the ball forward by all means and keep players and pressure around the ball with structure behind it.

Certainly wouldnt be an all the time thing. Collingwood did it a bit last year too to pretty good effect.

And kick for gaining territory and pounce on it. It's actually very structured, just played frenetically. It stops the opposition setting up their systems/zones and plays the game on the team playing it's terms.

 

[phantom13]

And kick for gaining territory and pounce on it. It's actually very structured, just played frenetically. It stops the opposition setting up their systems/zones and plays the game on the team playing it's terms.

From memory watching Richmond when they did it (at the ground) it was really structured behind the ball but at the ball and in front was pretty chaotic.

Just constant movement creating space but also closing it for the opposition.

Watching Collingwood do it to us in Round 1 last year i was sure it wouldnt be a sustainable style of footy but they proved me wrong.

 

[Cairnsman]

Id assume its a mode of play like Richmond, just get the ball forward by all means and keep players and pressure around the ball with structure behind it.

Certainly wouldnt be an all the time thing. Collingwood did it a bit last year too to pretty good effect.

So it's official this is now part of our new game plan?

 

[phantom13]

So it's official this is now part of our new game plan?

I have no idea, im just saying what i understand chaos ball to be. If we have adopted it its not new and were certainly not the first team to do it.

I think its a handy thing to have in the kit bag but also not something that we should be defaulting too.

 

[gringo2011]

From memory watching Richmond when they did it (at the ground) it was really structured behind the ball but at the ball and in front was pretty chaotic.

Just constant movement creating space but also closing it for the opposition.

Watching Collingwood do it to us in Round 1 last year i was sure it wouldnt be a sustainable style of footy but they proved me wrong.

It still has to be well communicated. It's chaos but chaos that the Tigers all understood. They were kicking into areas that they all knew it was coming too but didn't need accuracy so much as endeavour. I think it was quite Ross Lyon too. There was lots of swarming pressure and if they hadn't won a flag early on you could imagine them burning out from it.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Calm down, the suggestion isn’t that he will be gaz jnr it’s that he could play a similar style of game.

Yeah righto

 

[phantom13]

It still has to be well communicated. It's chaos but chaos that the Tigers all understood. They were kicking into areas that they all knew it was coming too but didn't need accuracy so much as endeavour. I think it was quite Ross Lyon too. There was lots of swarming pressure and if they hadn't won a flag early on you could imagine them burning out from it.

Yeh absolutely, im sure there was probably heaps of structure in all spots, certainly at the ball it wasnt like 4 blokes going the ball but it looks like absolute madness (hence its really hard to defend),

 

[CaptainRisky]

I wasn’t saying gresh will be the next GAJ. Just that maybe it would be good to model his game on him.

Its nice to wish he could but gresh just doesn't kick it well enough IMO, trying to model your game on a Two time brownlow medalist is a pretty big ask

 

[Joffaboy]

One last thing on Long. I was happy to get pick 30 for him..

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

He is an awful kick when he plays in the midfield.

This isn’t due to the fact that he can’t kick. He can kick a drop punt with no issue when he tries. Unfortunately more times than not he thinks it’s a better option to throw it on the boot.

Mostly I think he makes poor decisions and thinks he’s under more pressure than he actually is.

This has nothing to do with what others have said about his kicking and 100% based on me watching him each week.

As I said yesterday, I don't think he's an awful kick at all. When he rushes & kicks the living daylights out of the pill, it's very ineffective.

I've seen Gresh hit a leading forward on the chest bursting from a stoppage or kick it to someone's advantage plenty of times. It's a massive exaggeration that he's a poor kick. There's no technical flaws in his kicking when he steadies himself... which is purely decision making.

I watch him every week too.

 

[phantom13]

Its nice to wish he could but gresh just doesn't kick it well enough IMO, trying to model your game on a Two time brownlow medalist is a pretty big ask

Youre completely missing the point still.

Gaz wasnt particularly quick, he was pretty strong but also little, his biggest asset (beyond a fantastic footballing brain) was his evasivenss.

Nobody is saying he needs to do everything GazJnr did, but if he learned to get the first footy and look to give a handball and follow up for a one two to make space and get out of traffic (which is what Gaz always did) it would be the best use of his natural skill set and eradicate his bomb around the body to nothing.

Gaz did alot of Banger kicking (the 20-30 soft kick to space) which is actually a very easy kick to hit for even the worst kicks if you do it with a bit of time and space. Which Gresh (like Gaz) is capable of creating.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I think that is solved. Those who had either of the other 2 ahead of hickey didn’t understand the game.

Same as the ones who think 2018 Tom Hickey in RWB is the same as 2022 Tom Hickey in R&W.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Youre completely missing the point still.

Gaz wasnt particularly quick, he was pretty strong but also little, his biggest asset (beyond a fantastic footballing brain) was his evasivenss.

Nobody is saying he needs to do everything GazJnr did, but if he learned to get the first footy and look to give a handball and follow up for a one two to make space and get out of traffic (which is what Gaz always did) it would be the best use of his natural skill set and eradicate his bomb around the body to nothing.

Gaz did alot of Banger kicking (the 20-30 soft kick to space) which is actually a very easy kick to hit for even the worst kicks if you do it with a bit of time and space. Which Gresh (like Gaz) is capable of creating.

Im not missing anything , your just seeing it it differently to me , i like gresh but I cant ever see him having the impact GAJ had as he is shocking kick and half the time has no idea where is going to end up , he just doesn't have the same skills and that's a fact

 

[Cairnsman]

It still has to be well communicated. It's chaos but chaos that the Tigers all understood. They were kicking into areas that they all knew it was coming too but didn't need accuracy so much as endeavour. I think it was quite Ross Lyon too. There was lots of swarming pressure and if they hadn't won a flag early on you could imagine them burning out from it.

So would you think if we are adopting this type of game plan it is because of our poor skills and does the chaos game plan mean long bombs into F50?