Training 2023 Pre Season

[Sun Ra]

Awesome to hear Keeler was running laps at training. He is going to be an exciting one to watch develop

Resource - 2023 AFL Season. Crystal Ball Time. Predictions Please.

It is time fellow Sainters to put on our thinking caps and make a prediction on the season to come. Use whatever means you wish to come up with your prediction - stats, logic, the occult, it's up to you. Anyway, I'll kick things off. Be as serious as you feel like. 1. Melbourne 2...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[puppy_dog7]

I think that is solved. Those who had either of the other 2 ahead of hickey didn’t understand the game.

I used to be heavy on the hickey train. Feel somewhat vindicated now with how both careers have panned out.

 

[austinnn]

We do a heap of situational stuff.

Clock on the screen and the coaches set the scene and expectation.

I was more referring to how we practice our goal kicking now as opposed to previous years which felt more suburban football - with everyone kicking shots but not replicating even having a man on the mark.

Except for king. He always had roughy. Especially when he took his 100 shots from the goal square.

I’m sure others can support this. But the biggest takeaway from the improvement to our standards - is probably the level of education the boys get now.

Feedback immediately- sometimes it’s as small as the positioning of the guy 10m from the contest.

Other times it’s big as you would have seen from the training footage from fridays match sim. Calls an entire side in and literally educates them + challenges.

A number have already spoken about him pacing the outside of drills and then talking to boys individually.

What will disappoint people is that there hasn’t been to my knowledge a great focus on footskills. But I imagine they will weed the Clanger kings from the list at years end.

If I was to paint a picture of who we want to be.

Offensively- quick. Direct. Use of hand balls and corridor. Speed of ball is the emphasis. Chaos forward of the centre.

Defensively- pragmatic, dour. Happy to create Stoppages. Back 7 in open play. Physical. Smarter

What does Chaos Ball imply? Half forwards and attacking midfielders rushing towards goal or forwards buzzing round the f50 like bees in a bottle?

 

[stfan]

What will disappoint people is that there hasn’t been to my knowledge a great focus on footskills.

Not I.

The way I see it we could be highly skilled but we are not going to go anywhere without changing how we play.

So the emphasis is first to see who can play how RTB and our other coaches want them to.
Then it will progress to who can play that way, while also being reasonably effective. Plus who can be very effective. By seasons end they will know who is flourishing, and who is not up to our long term success. Then we keep churning through new players to keep improving.

By seasons end too, how we play will have become instinctive.

Also that with the speed of play now footskills were always likely to take a dip. However, as more muscle memory kicks in and the more players do not have to really think about eververything, then skills including footskills should lift somewhat.

But I imagine they will weed the Clanger kings from the list at years end.

Exactly right.

Darwin would call it evolution at work. Survival of the fittest to execute the new gameplan, and work-rate.

So it will not just be clanger kings, but also those who cannot play the way that the gameplan requires. first squeezed back to Sandy, and then out if they cannot adapt well enough. and indeed I think these players wil be the first culled. Some who may struggle with their tanks too may find themselves squeezed out..

 

[stfan]

It's not technique IMO, it's decision making.

Under the pump & Gresh just tries to get as much distance as possible instead of looking for someone.

Plus he too often tries to do the "incredible kick" rather than the simple kick. Hence all the across the body kicks.

Banger in part became such a star as he concentrated on short to medium kicks that hit targets, and importantly time well to make it hard on the opposition to intercept or spoil. Nothing fancy, but bloody effective. KISS is often best.

So personally I think Gresham would be a much better player if he just simplified who/where he is kicking the ball to.

 

[hayes]

Hunter attended 70% of bounces in round 1 21, for 7 clearances.
Round 14 22 he was in 17% of the bounces for 3 clearances.

I think i'd prefer him in there to Jones or Ross.

Windhager and Bytel are the other two who have real potential in 2023.

Ahhh that round 1 win against GWS. Gresham, Clark and Bytel all the middle, Clark was silk in the wet and I’m thinking “finally, FINALLY we might have a midfield!”…..and then the rest of the year happened.

 

[bird_man]

He wanted to play as a defender and got swung all over the place.

From week to week. Sometimes quarter to quarter.

That’s tough when you are trying to establish yourself.

He played the whole of 2020 as a defender and then the first chunk of 2021 as well before eventually being dropped due to poor form

In the end he was given every opportunity to show he had what it takes to be a defender but it couldn't cement his spot

Unfortunately for him that meant he was used as a Mr fix it it different areas, but not after he wasn't given a decent opportunity first

 

[lewdogs]

Liked the club, couldn't stand the coach, would tell him he was playing back then switch him forward at selection. If Lyon had have come on board before trade time Long would still be with us.
Lyon would have got the best out of him.


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I don't think anyone is denying he wouldn't have loved being swung around or that he didn't like Ratts.

But he was given a four year deal on better money at Gold Coast, if he would have stayed at St Kilda on a two year deal on less money to have Lyon coach him then I think he'd be crazy. I really don't know how you can say that unless you know that the new list management team would have matched the Gold Coast offer which almost all our supporters seem to think was overs.

I don't really get why anyone is owed an apology over this, just because people disagree with the reasons for Long leaving it doesn't mean we're questioning anyone's "ITK status".

 

[Klaatu]

Why can't the club have 1 open training session this Saturday instead of Friday most people work & kids back at school, just think how much merchandise they would sell on Saturday, it's a no brainer.

 

[bird_man]

Liked the club, couldn't stand the coach, would tell him he was playing back then switch him forward at selection. If Lyon had have come on board before trade time Long would still be with us.
Lyon would have got the best out of him.


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I find it hard to believe that a fringe player would knock back a 4 year deal just because Lyon was coming on board to be honest.

Whilst he mat have ended up with the some mixed messages I think he still would have had the exact same problem, that he just wasn’t in our best back 6.

So it’s you either play defence for Sandringham of fill holes in other areas

 

[BrutThough]

I find it hard to believe that a fringe player would knock back a 4 year deal just because Lyon was coming on board to be honest.

Whilst he mat have ended up with the some mixed messages I think he still would have had the exact same problem, that he just wasn’t in our best back 6.

So it’s you either play defence for Sandringham of fill holes in other areas

He wouldn't have. No player (or manger) would turn down a 4 year contract at a club selling permanent time in the position they want to play in favour of a lesser contract with no positional guarantee.

 

[Saintbloke]

Centre Clearances 2022

Crouch: 49. 22nd in the AFL.
Gresham 42. Steel 42. 37th in the AFL.
Ross 21
Jones 19
Marshall 18
Ryder 8
Sinclair 7
Lionert 5
Battle 2
Wood 2
Butler 2
NWM 2
Webster 1
Byrnes 1

Sinclair's CC's vs bounce attendances, is probably way better than Jones.

2022 AFL League Total Centre Clearances Leaders

2022 AFL League Total Centre Clearances Leaders.

www.footywire.com

We need to do better in the midfield, otherwise, no finals for us.

 

[sammm]

Why can't the club have 1 open training session this Saturday instead of Friday most people work & kids back at school, just think how much merchandise they would sell on Saturday, it's a no brainer.

i suspect during preseason, they come to the club 5 days a week and have weekends off. i suppose

 

[Joffaboy]

Plenty of players get offered longer contracts with other clubs and knock it back.
He was enjoying his time at the Saints and he would have probably would have stayed if Ratten wasn't coach and Ross and the assistants were on board. However it is moot as he is gone, mainly due to the poor communication and the shoddy way he was treated.

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[stfan]

I find it hard to believe that a fringe player would knock back a 4 year deal just because Lyon was coming on board to be honest.

Whilst he mat have ended up with the some mixed messages I think he still would have had the exact same problem, that he just wasn’t in our best back 6.

So it’s you either play defence for Sandringham of fill holes in other areas

I think you misread his post.

Long left because of Ratts still being the coach, and not due him knowing that Lyon was coming.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Plenty of players get offered longer contracts with other clubs and knock it back.
He was enjoying his time at the Saints and he would have probably would have stayed if Ratten wasn't coach and Ross and the assistants were on board. However it is moot as he is gone, mainly due to the poor communication and the shoddy way he was treated.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

He's gone because he was offered a longer contract than we were prepared to offer for a player who after 6 years was still not a starting 22 in our best team.

OK as a pressure forward, OK as a defender but jeez there's a lot of OK players in the league and I wouldn't be offering many of them 4 years.

 

[bird_man]

Plenty of players get offered longer contracts with other clubs and knock it back.
He was enjoying his time at the Saints and he would have probably would have stayed if Ratten wasn't coach and Ross and the assistants were on board. However it is moot as he is gone, mainly due to the poor communication and the shoddy way he was treated.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think it would be pretty bloody rare for a fringe player to knock back a contract like that

Bit different if it was a guy imbedded into the side. No doubt those types will knock back contracts often, but not a player that is mid career and has been unable to cement themselves into the side

 

[bird_man]

I think you misread his post.

Long left because of Ratts still being the coach, and not due him knowing that Lyon was coming.

No I’d didn’t, I think you have mis read mine

 

[phantom13]

He wouldn't have. No player (or manger) would turn down a 4 year contract at a club selling permanent time in the position they want to play in favour of a lesser contract with no positional guarantee.

Didnt Dunstan turn down 3 from the GC for 2 from Melbourne...

Theres a myriad of options between 4 on better money for GC and 2 for less at the saints if Ross is in and wants him.

Would he stay for 3 on money somewhere between if Ross saw a role for him?

Who knows, i think those who liked Longy just think he would have played good footy under Ross, well never know and i wish Ben nothing but the best on the coast. Just please dont break any of our boys.

 

[bird_man]

Didnt Dunstan turn down 3 from the GC for 2 from Melbourne...

Theres a myriad of options between 4 on better money for GC and 2 for less at the saints if Ross is in and wants him.

Would he stay for 3 on money somewhere between if Ross saw a role for him?

Who knows, i think those who liked Longy just think he would have played good footy under Ross, well never know and i wish Ben nothing but the best on the coast. Just please dont break any of our boys.

No, he was never offered anything at Gold Coast.

He was on the wait and see list and likely would have ended up on the rookie list

 

[BrutThough]

Didnt Dunstan turn down 3 from the GC for 2 from Melbourne...

Theres a myriad of options between 4 on better money for GC and 2 for less at the saints if Ross is in and wants him.

Would he stay for 3 on money somewhere between if Ross saw a role for him?

Who knows, i think those who liked Longy just think he would have played good footy under Ross, well never know and i wish Ben nothing but the best on the coast. Just please dont break any of our boys.

I thought Gold Coast showed interested but never offered him a proper deal.

There is only a lot of options in between if people are willing to offer them.

He might have played good football under Ross. Seems like every player on the list has had that said about them this off season. He also might have stayed on the fringes due to our plethora of half back options who have showed more in that position and been more consistent throughout their careers. He made the right choice taking the guaranteed 4 years.

 

[phantom13]

No, he was never offered anything at Gold Coast.

He was on the wait and see list and likely would have ended up on the rookie list

Thats not what i recall but whatever, point is people have turned down better deals elsewhere so its not unprecendented, i doubt we would have gone anywhere near the GC deal (much like the Ellis thing with Richmond) but i still lament losing Longy.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't think anyone is denying he wouldn't have loved being swung around or that he didn't like Ratts.

But he was given a four year deal on better money at Gold Coast, if he would have stayed at St Kilda on a two year deal on less money to have Lyon coach him then I think he'd be crazy. I really don't know how you can say that unless you know that the new list management team would have matched the Gold Coast offer which almost all our supporters seem to think was overs.

I don't really get why anyone is owed an apology over this, just because people disagree with the reasons for Long leaving it doesn't mean we're questioning anyone's "ITK status".

I don't think we have maximised existing talent for a long time. Probably since Watters time. A big part of that is a lack of footy department spend where we just hoped talent would rise. Lyon was very good at it in the past but was also a proper autocrat where he was spending 16 hours a day at the club and doing 10 people's job. Long looks exactly the type of diamond in the rough that would flourish under the current system.

If he was playing his best footy, a long term contract probably would have looked fine. Most players will sign for 3 to stay rather than walk. GC have cap issues so doubt it's a big financial contract.

 

[gringo2011]

Why can't the club have 1 open training session this Saturday instead of Friday most people work & kids back at school, just think how much merchandise they would sell on Saturday, it's a no brainer.

I think that's why, if they get 20k to a session it is a massive undertaking and would need council approval and traffic management, extra toilets etc. It cost a lot to put that stuff on.

 

[Sun Ra]

I don't think we have maximised existing talent for a long time. Probably since Watters time. A big part of that is a lack of footy department spend where we just hoped talent would rise. Lyon was very good at it in the past but was also a proper autocrat where he was spending 16 hours a day at the club and doing 10 people's job. Long looks exactly the type of diamond in the rough that would flourish under the current system.

If he was playing his best footy, a long term contract probably would have looked fine. Most players will sign for 3 to stay rather than walk. GC have cap issues so doubt it's a big financial contract.

Seem to remember it was 4 years x $500K pa.