Training 2023 Pre Season

[stavro#4]

Have just listened to a local sports radio preview of the season.

Host and others reckon the Hawks will win a flag before the Saints (but the Saints may win more this year) and bottoming out will be good for them and we are stuffed.

Reckon it will take a while for us to get a read on our team due the fn huge injury list along with change in game plan.

Not sure we need to bottom out completely but will need some more top picks to get class like Phiapou etc in

I think we are one more good draft away and some shrewd free agent/trades from being a contender if I’m honest.

Owens Windy and Pou are the mids who in another 1-2 seasons will become the gun mids for us.

We are using 2 of them as forwards this week.

We need another Key back and that will allow us to use Wilkie on the likes of Toby Greene and Dusty etc when they go forward. Battle third tall.

Then you can play really attacking Half backs.

We need another forward Ruck that can chip in 30 goals a season and competently ruck.

again, if by the bye we are struggling. Go all in on player development. If the draft is as good as touted. Go balls deep in the top 20 and I think we comfortably play finals in 24.

What is going to kill us is the injury list for the first half of the season.

 

[L_W_P]

At training. RSEA Park is fantastic.

Howard taking mark after mark. Looks like he's been instructed not to punch, incredible intercept marking display.

I'm certain Sharman will play - been watching him closely - his evasive skills are extraordinary.

Gresh looking great - has burst out of the centre a couple of times and hit Owens lace out with a 40 metre passes that disappeared into Mitch's marshmallow soft hands.

Forward I hope?!?!

 

[L_W_P]

I think we are one more good draft away and some shrewd free agent/trades from being a contender if I’m honest.

Owens Windy and Pou are the mids who in another 1-2 seasons will become the gun mids for us.

We are using 2 of them as forwards this week.

We need another Key back and that will allow us to use Wilkie on the likes of Toby Greene and Dusty etc when they go forward. Battle third tall.

Then you can play really attacking Half backs.

We need another forward Ruck that can chip in 30 goals a season and competently ruck.

again, if by the bye we are struggling. Go all in on player development. If the draft is as good as touted. Go balls deep in the top 20 and I think we comfortably play finals in 24.

What is going to kill us is the injury list for the first half of the season.

Would you advocate trading guys like Billings, Jones and Clark for picks this year then? Or do we keep them as depth options going forward?

The messaging from the club is that Ross and Co are here, not just for the short term shaping of this list, but for setting elite standards for the next 10+ years. It's going to be so hard to get a read on the club given we won't have our best team of the park until close to mid year but there is a growing feeling that this might be a "one step back, two steps forward" type season.

 

[stavro#4]

Yeah tend to agree re the swings and roundabouts, luck is part of the equation in a collision sport isn't it but sheez, where do you buy luck from.

Having said that it's getting to the point, I think we are now up to 8 of our best 22 not available, that the question will at least be asked as to why so many injuries in a pre season?

You'd understand it better if it was a crisis during the season but the fact it's happen in the pre season will surely see questions emerge from the zeitgeist.

You could argue that only Allison won’t have a club or be at our club from our current injury list next year.

 

[plugger66]

I think we are one more good draft away and some shrewd free agent/trades from being a contender if I’m honest.

Owens Windy and Pou are the mids who in another 1-2 seasons will become the gun mids for us.

We are using 2 of them as forwards this week.

We need another Key back and that will allow us to use Wilkie on the likes of Toby Greene and Dusty etc when they go forward. Battle third tall.

Then you can play really attacking Half backs.

We need another forward Ruck that can chip in 30 goals a season and competently ruck.

again, if by the bye we are struggling. Go all in on player development. If the draft is as good as touted. Go balls deep in the top 20 and I think we comfortably play finals in 24.

What is going to kill us is the injury list for the first half of the season.

The injury list was well known a fair few weeks ago. A couple more added since. That’s why I’ve said we can’t play finals. We have so many early close 50/50 games but the injuries now make mose 40/60 games. I’d say 2 and 4 is the best we can hope for. All I know is bottoming out is nearly less successful than trying to win as many games as possible each year. We bottom out when we got paddy and billings. How is that going. How was Carlton and melbournes first bottoming out go. Even no proof Carlton’s second bottoming out will work. By the way I know you didn’t mention that.

 

[plugger66]

Would you advocate trading guys like Billings, Jones and Clark for picks this year then? Or do we keep them as depth options going forward?

The messaging from the club is that Ross and Co are here, not just for the short term shaping of this list, but for setting elite standards for the next 10+ years. It's going to be so hard to get a read on the club given we won't have our best team of the park until close to mid year but there is a growing feeling that this might be a "one step back, two steps forward" type season.

We couldn’t trade billings and jones previously so doubt we can now. I wouldn’t be even slightly suggesting Clark until we see this year.

 

[stavro#4]

Would you advocate trading guys like Billings, Jones and Clark for picks this year then? Or do we keep them as depth options going forward?

The messaging from the club is that Ross and Co are here, not just for the short term shaping of this list, but for setting elite standards for the next 10+ years. It's going to be so hard to get a read on the club given we won't have our best team of the park until close to mid year but there is a growing feeling that this might be a "one step back, two steps forward" type season.

I don’t know enough about the draft to say mate.

All I know is that RTB and Sos are business first. The club have already said we want Key position talls this off-season.

What I will say… is that I love Gresh. But I’m not committed to another year of teasing. He either plays a full season and puts it all on show or we sell him to the highest bidder and use the substantial money elsewhere

 

[stavro#4]

The injury list was well known a fair few weeks ago. A couple more added since. That’s why I’ve said we can’t play finals. We have so many early close 50/50 games but the injuries now make mose 40/60 games. I’d say 2 and 4 is the best we can hope for. All I know is bottoming out is nearly less successful than trying to win as many games as possible each year. We bottom out when we got paddy and billings. How is that going. How was Carlton and melbournes first bottoming out go. Even no proof Carlton’s second bottoming out will work. By the way I know you didn’t mention that.

I’m not advocating bottoming out. One bad season can set up the next decade of great ones.

Just need good leaders at the top to navigate it and I think we do

 

[plugger66]

I don’t know enough about the draft to say mate.

All I know is that RTB and Sos are business first. The club have already said we want Key position talls this off-season.

What I will say… is that I love Gresh. But I’m not committed to another year of teasing. He either plays a full season and puts it all on show or we sell him to the highest bidder and use the substantial money elsewhere

Money is no good unless you have picks with them or a free agent willing to come to us. All I know is mentioning names before round one is fraught with danger.

 

[Saint_Dos]

You could argue that only Allison won’t have a club or be at our club from our current injury list next year.

Except he is contracted for next year...

 

[stavro#4]

Money is no good unless you have picks with them or a free agent willing to come to us. All I know is mentioning names before round one is fraught with danger.

We might win this week and be dreaming of finals. Who knows plugger

 

[plugger66]

I’m not advocating bottoming out. One bad season can set up the next decade of great ones.

Just need good leaders at the top to navigate it and I think we do

That’s why I said you didn’t say it. The reason I think it’s crap is if you only have your initial draft picks you get one great pick more than the premier and every other pick is worse. One pick won’t change a thing unless it’s dusty and even he can’t do it without stars around him.

 

[seasonedsainter]

I expect the 3 standouts for our team this year to be:
H Clark, R Byrnes, R Marshall.

 

[hangdog]

Except he is contracted for next year...

Robbie Young was delisted with a year on his contract. I could almost see that happening to Allison.

 

[plugger66]

We might win this week and be dreaming of finals. Who knows plugger

If we do it will be great. I’m just looking at it realistically. The one thing I’m 100% sure of is those who overrate our result this week on here and if their overrating results in a loss they will be the ones bagging the club more than those who are being realistic. I hope those overrating are right.

 

[stavro#4]

That’s why I said you didn’t say it. The reason I think it’s crap is if you only have your initial draft picks you get one great pick more than the premier and every other pick is worse. One pick won’t change a thing unless it’s dusty and even he can’t do it without stars around him.

Hypothetically if you landed McKay as a free agent.

Your then left with a decision on Gresham Clark and Nas (if he doesn’t Re-sign)

So there are options to bring in multiple first round picks there.

Ideally. Nas plays every game and breaks out. So we either keep a star or get compensated for one.

Again same for Gresh. Plays every game. Wins the BnF. You either keep your reigning BnF or you get compensated for one.

I don’t think it’s doom and gloom. It just needs good decisions.

 

[lewdogs]

If we do it will be great. I’m just looking at it realistically. The one thing I’m 100% sure of is those who overrate our result this week on here and if their overrating results in a loss they will be the ones bagging the club more than those who are being realistic. I hope those overrating are right.

The funny thing with this week is Freo may be rubbish. They've lost quite a few key players. We could easily beat them and still end up middle or bottom tier, it's always hard to know what's actually going on and we will need a few weeks to get a real read on the season.

 

[plugger66]

Hypothetically if you landed McKay as a free agent.

Your then left with a decision on Gresham Clark and Nas (if he doesn’t Re-sign)

So there are options to bring in multiple first round picks there.

Ideally. Nas plays every game and breaks out. So we either keep a star or get compensated for one.

Again same for Gresh. Plays every game. Wins the BnF. You either keep your reigning BnF or you get compensated for one.

I don’t think it’s doom and gloom. It just needs good decisions.

I certainly don’t think it’s doom or gloom. I’ve been very positive on 2024 and beyond. We can do all you said though without bottoming out. That’s really my point. It’s so overrated. And let’s just say McKay was interested which I’d say that’s completely no hope but if he was is he going to a side who is way down the bottom. Surely that would lose his interest very quickly.

 

[Ads734]

To be honest, I think it shows the previous regimes failing more so then the new guys rolling the dice because they need certain standards.

Naaahhh , putting players at risk of injuries to speed up building long term fitness is silly. Also I thought Ross said he was surprised with the running power of the guys. Somethings not fitting here.

 

[plugger66]

The funny thing with this week is Freo may be rubbish. They've lost quite a few key players. We could easily beat them and still end up middle or bottom tier, it's always hard to know what's actually going on and we will need a few weeks to get a real read on the season.

Well according to many on here on the night of round one last year we were worse than crap because we just lost to the 17th side yet all sides were level. Well I thought they were.

 

[plugger66]

Naaahhh , putting players at risk of injuries to speed up building long term fitness is silly. Also I thought Ross said he was surprised with the running power of the guys. Somethings not fitting here.

Yep luck of the draw.

 

[botts]

Have just listened to a local sports radio preview of the season.

Host and others reckon the Hawks will win a flag before the Saints (but the Saints may win more this year) and bottoming out will be good for them and we are stuffed.

Reckon it will take a while for us to get a read on our team due the fn huge injury list along with change in game plan.

Not sure we need to bottom out completely but will need some more top picks to get class like Phiapou etc in

Bulldust. We probably have better kids than they do. We don’t need to bottom out but it might be out of our hands

 

[Verdun]

Bulldust. We probably have better kids than they do. We don’t need to bottom out but it might be out of our hands

Didn't say I agreed with them!

Have been offered a bet of $100 that Hawks will win a flag before the Saints.

There is a strong narrative that the Saints are no mans land, I am not convinced that Ross Lyon is the answer as coach as others. Do have some faith in some of the Ast coaches etc in place around him and that we do have a reasonable list with obvious gaps at the moment ie the forward line and class in the middle. Injury list could be a blessing with need to play the kids

Time will tell, would love to see Windhager, Owens in the middle developing.

 

[plugger66]

Didn't say I agreed with them!

Have been offered a bet of $100 that Hawks will win a flag before the Saints.

There is a strong narrative that the Saints are no mans land, I am not convinced that Ross Lyon is the answer as coach as others. Do have some faith in some of the Ast coaches etc in place around him and that we do have a reasonable list with obvious gaps at the moment ie the forward line and class in the middle. Injury list could be a blessing with need to play the kids

Time will tell, would love to see Windhager, Owens in the middle developing.

They will play there for periods. Windhanger longer periods. Owen won’t for a while obviously because of injuries. And who knows. He may end up as very good mid sized forward. Interested in why you aren’t sure of Lyon being the answer. That’s about the only thing I’m confident about. As for the !100 bet I’d back the hawks as well. Not because of their list but because one in 150 suggests waiting for the saints will be far to late for my life.

 

[Fehring]

Have just listened to a local sports radio preview of the season.

Host and others reckon the Hawks will win a flag before the Saints (but the Saints may win more this year) and bottoming out will be good for them and we are stuffed.

Reckon it will take a while for us to get a read on our team due the fn huge injury list along with change in game plan.

Not sure we need to bottom out completely but will need some more top picks to get class like Phiapou etc in

Bulldust. We probably have better kids than they do. We don’t need to bottom out but it might be out of our hands

Not sure "team X will win a flag before team Y" has much value, since on average you'll win a flag every 18 years. But if you were to ask - which team will be better in five years, I think it's clearly us. I don't think a team has ever cut as deep as the Hawks and rebounded quickly. They basically need every draft pick and player trade to work out for them to have any chance of being any good in five years time. Now, they probably won't stuff it up as badly as us, but they're basically leaderless at this point and that's really dangerous for player development. They're going to have a team that gets smashed from pillar to post and there are hardly any veterans to set standards and guide them through.

Now, I think we all expect the Hawks to somehow arse their way out of this because they're Hawthorn, but I just don't see it.