Autopsy 2023 Rd 11 It's Groundhog Day ... again

[Fridge42]

Not sure if mentioned but how good a coach is Longmire.

Identified the weakness in the backline came up with a strategy with team defence and players carried it out.

THAT is the difference between coaches and GOOD coaches.


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He managed to do that in a week, Voss hasnt managed to change the plan in 18mths.

 

[Del9Sep24]

I'm with you here. The rebuild starting in 2015 hasn't worked. It's failed due to poor recruiting, trading, development and injuries. Time for a mini rebuild.

We need to clean out most of those listed still on our list, attack the draft and recruit durable, hard working role players to fill gaps until the kids come on.

If we had more players with the intensity and effort of Cottrell we'd be alright. He is comfortably best 22 at the moment because of his work rate and commitment to doing the hard things that often get overlooked (smothers, running to man to the mark, unrewarded leads and so forth).

The rebuild hasn’t worked because of losing culture. The club has done everything possible to keep these past players around with coaching roles, bits and pieces jobs to stay involved with the club. The current players still look up to these players as leaders from when they were drafted.

These players achieved nothing. They are not past champions. They tried their best and they failed. Miserably. A thank you, a gold watch and a good luck with everything is appropriate for players of that era.

Playing in the 1s in a cellar dweller for 10 years does not make you a champion and qualified to mentor young players.

 

[DangerousD]

Weitering was pretty good. That’s something.

Was he thought? He was on a 36 year old, well past his best and a lot less mobile than he’s ever been.

Franklin is also a poor mark.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

What kids?

Binns Cowan kemp dow to a lesser extent Carroll and Lob and get Cincotta back in there + cuningham if he pulls up ok next week etc etc etc. They're good kids who haven't yet been taught how to dodge responsibility and training standards. :,)

 

[Kruezing]

Fogarty, Fisher, Cincotta, JSoS

None of those are mids we’re gonna have to improvise

 

[Azzurro]

Not sure if mentioned but how good a coach is Longmire.

Identified the weakness in the backline came up with a strategy with team defence and players carried it out.

THAT is the difference between coaches and GOOD coaches.


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Agree largely with the concept, but I have to ask, how do you know it was Longmire's plan?

Who are the other footy brains in that setup? Assuming Don Pyke might have had a bit to do with it for instance.

Add a playing group that leaves ours in the dust in terms of footy smarts and team-first mentality, if they executed major game plan tweaks within a week.

Not sure how drastic the actual changes were, or whether our diabolical performance helped them look like heroes. But I guess it'd have to be a bit of columns A and B together.

 

[Del9Sep24]

Love Cottrell, one of my favourites. Always had the endeavour, loves the big moment. Large portion of the supporter base wanted him gone in 2021 but he's got a unique combination of athleticism, endeavour and commitment.

He's become quite reliable and composed with the footy too. Has only played 40 games, yesterday was a career best for disposals and he's one of the few players on our list that knows how to find space inside 50.

He’s seen as a workhorse for the simple fact that he wasn’t taken as a high draft pick. He’s classy and makes good decisions.

The team would be far better off having 30 touches going through his hands than the butcher list clogger on the other wing.

 

[SurreyBlue]

None of those are mids we’re gonna have to improvise

These will be the changes. Don’t expect ‘any in form’ mids to come in. We will go with Cripps, Docherty and Ed with others out. Kennedy needs to pay half back as defensive mid to support Saad and McGoven’s offensive strengths........cough, cough.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Who dun it. Which one of you....

 

[Aphrodite]

Correct Kingy





6.15 but valid point Sellers

 

[Funk]

And here we are once again, regardless of the various criticisms of coaching and spirit most of which I think is wrong.
If the players kicked straight we were close or win it.

Bad kicking for goal is football suicide.

Your point re goal kicking is valid.

However Carlton was to be a top 4 team and was playing a team in terrible form and decimated by injury- particularly re tall defenders. While Carlton had the last 2 Coleman medallists and the reigning Brownlow medallist.

Carlton should have flogged them by minimum 6 goals - but instead lost by 4 goals!!!

That’s the problem.

 

[gab213]

Your point re goal kicking is valid.

However Carlton was to be a top 4 team and was playing a team in terrible form and decimated by injury- particularly re tall defenders. While Carlton had the last 2 Coleman medallists and the reigning Brownlow medallist.

Carlton should have flogged them by minimum 6 goals - but instead lost by 4 goals!!!

That’s the problem.

That unrealistic expectation in itself is also a problem. I can't see how anyone could have though of it when looking at our list, the few standout types we have are great but that in itself doesn't lead to success.

 

[The Bighouse]

All about The Ashes for me.

Hopefully that doesn’t turn out sh!te as well…

 

[Blue and Blue]

Your point re goal kicking is valid.

However Carlton was to be a top 4 team and was playing a team in terrible form and decimated by injury- particularly re tall defenders. While Carlton had the last 2 Coleman medallists and the reigning Brownlow medallist.

Carlton should have flogged them by minimum 6 goals - but instead lost by 4 goals!!!

That’s the problem.

Pretty sure thats what I said basically.
These players cant make their kicks for goal count.
The one thing that changes results on a football field. Nothing else does.
Doesnt matter how many marks, tackles handballls they rack up.
They can have any coach in the world and the most incredible tactics, but if the goals are points (unless the opposition is just as poor at kicking for goal) they lose the game.

 

[AB_Blue]

Cincotta, need more run and carry not less.

Absolutely he should not have been dropped


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[Show_Me_The_Money]

On reflection I don’t think this is true, MM was hired to take the club to a higher level the board decided Ratts couldn’t.

He was sold a premiership list and came in, made finals, won a final, our best finish in a long time.

It wasn’t until a third of the way through a season the club decided we needed a rebuild, Malthouse commented along the lines of, you don’t rebuild a list mid season,

We were terrible at list management and drafting at the time and I’m not sure if MM was the problem

Disagree completely. The list he inherited was premiership favourite the previous season. He had plenty of quality. He gutted the list of it's talent and replaced them with plodders and then cracked the sads when it didn't work. Brought in his lame son Daisy on ridiculous coin. Ditched Eddie Betts one of the greates small forwards of all time. Made plodders like Simon White mainstays of our side. He fluked the finals due to essendon and it wasn't the first final we'd won in ages we won in 2011 as well. Ended up disgracing himself with his childish behaviour. Was a complete disaster.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

That unrealistic expectation in itself is also a problem. I can't see how anyone could have though of it when looking at our list, the few standout types we have are great but that in itself doesn't lead to success.

I pulled our list up against others and so did a few of my footy nut mates who support other clubs we ranked lists and averaged them. Yes it was reasonable to think based on only list talent that Carlton could've pushed top 6 and maybe even top 4.

Highly competent analytic models like squiggle and others also predicted similar. They've got really decent accuracies too. I don't think talent has been overrated. Perhaps desire toughness etc though - which doesn't really have a 'measurable'

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

What if we had 16 Charlie's, a ruck and a rover? Would that work?

Yes. He's also our best field kick by a fair margin.

 

[JustaBattler]

I refuse to accept the type of goal kicking performance handed out by McKay and to a lesser extent Charlie - and the comment previously about their unwillingness to lead instead of asking for a high ball entry only adds to the obvious dysfunction - 6;15? I mean seriously...no game plan/coach/midfield/defense can cope with that kind of return on effort from these blokes who are paid an absolute fortune to miss finals one year and deliver no finals the next whilst demoralising their teammates week in week out - McKay is an intelligent person off field no doubt about that - but on field he has been playing the dumbest footballer in AFL - I'm tired of watching him fall over, slap at marks and die a death of a thousand cuts whilst lining up for a kick at goal - why he bothers to lead don't the left hand side of the field where he hasn't got close to kicking a goal in 2 years- is a mystery to me - whoever is coaching this setup just needs to go - just go

I'm sick of watching Carlton small forwards running straight lines and just missing the rebound running defenders from the opposition or worse being shrugged off like dandruff if they manage to get a hand on an opposition player - when they have had PLENTY of time to assess where the ball was and what lines to run to actually make a tackle and keep some pressure on - that is just football boof-headery - and the inability of Carlton players in general to have any feel whatsoever for what is going on around them - when to go fast and when to actually slow down give themselves an extra second or two to make a better decision or kick...most of the players are actually football dumb as in really dumb.

The one criticism I can make of Voss and whoever the midfield coach is - is this and it is a BIG criticism

You have Cripps being smashed because you are playing Kennedy and Cerra as HBFers and kidding yourself that Docherty is an inside mid why would you play Docherty who has been an AA HBFer predominantly as a mid and then play Cerra (our best mid) and Kennedy who showed every time he is allowed anywhere near a midfield or forward contest that he is probably our second best attacking mid - why would you play these two blokes NOT AS MIDS?? WHY? just why? It makes me pull my hair out trying to figure out what Voss and his coaches have done to the games best on ball brigade in 20220 into one of the games weakest CBB outfits ..just PATHETIC to watch..

Midfielder not kicking goals for Carlton - you know why - because they have all been repurposed as half back flankers FFS...

The irony is that even with all the substandard kicking, lack of team cohesion - there is enough ball won and enough entries made to win games that have been lost - whatever has gotten into McKay's head needs removal because right now he is killing the whole team.



I'll take Voss and co seriously when I see some evidence some benefit of destroying the midfield cohesion for some gain.

As for Cripps - allowing himself to be bullied by Heeney I mean really? He has been drinking his Brownlow bathwater all year - enough. Man up Cripps you are twice the size of your tagging opponents- play with some mongrel and stop broadcasting your inner marshmallow to supporters and your team mates.

 

[Benaly28]

Agree largely with the concept, but I have to ask, how do you know it was Longmire's plan?

Who are the other footy brains in that setup? Assuming Don Pyke might have had a bit to do with it for instance.

Add a playing group that leaves ours in the dust in terms of footy smarts and team-first mentality, if they executed major game plan tweaks within a week.

Not sure how drastic the actual changes were, or whether our diabolical performance helped them look like heroes. But I guess it'd have to be a bit of columns A and B together.

Pretty much said it in the presser whether it was him or coaching group.


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[muzza99]

Depends who you follow. My NFL team is just as frustrating

Does it start with Dallas and end in Cowboys? Cos mine starts with Greenbay and ends with Packers……same same

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Does it start with Dallas and end in Cowboys? Cos mine starts with Greenbay and ends with Packers……same same

Me too - although I'm more excited about this season upcoming than I have been the last couple. Go pack go

 

[52Goals4inGranny]

I now fully expect a heavy loss to Melbourne but if we lose to Essendon the week after that nothing will save Vossy.
I really could not have imagined a worse scenario at the start of the season.
2 bad losses from here and its, cue back in the rack, play the kids, plan for 2024.

Yep, I'll cop just about anything from here out but if we lose to the dons I want him out. I want the whole joint burnt to the ground if those scum beat us

 

[52Goals4inGranny]

That unrealistic expectation in itself is also a problem. I can't see how anyone could have though of it when looking at our list, the few standout types we have are great but that in itself doesn't lead to success.

We should be aiming for it every year.

Collingwood on paper has a worse list than us. Most teams do in fact

 

[muzza99]

Me too - although I'm more excited about this season upcoming than I have been the last couple. Go pack go

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