Autopsy 2023 Rd 5 Blues get smashed by Crows

[jpfalvo]

A selection of my favourite quotes from this thread:











































Oops, sorry, those quotes were from Richmond's match thread after their Rd 16 match in 2017 (with just a few name changes).

If we are going to compare Carlton supporter frustrations to Richmond.

Pre these threads in 2016 and 2017, they played finals 3 years in a row 2013 to 2015.
Finished those season 5, 8 and 5.

They also strung more than 3 games in a row of consecutive wins.

Whilst, we are still waiting to finish beyond 9th after a 10yr, "66game rebuild".

So Carlton people are justified in expressing frustrations here, as it is the sum of all parts, boiling over...

We have all been very patient waiting for us to turn the corner in effort, energy, gameday application and cohesion.

This group is very talented, numerous colemans, a brownlow and AA. However, until we reach finals there will be discontent and concern.

We should still play finals, and finish somewhere 5th to 8th.

However, comparing richmond to carlton is disingenuous without context


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[BlueBayou]

A bit harsh on Pittonet - he was out for 3/4 of the game - but yep Carlton's midfield lost the game in Q1 couldn't get their hands on the ball.

My point was not just about our rucks being weak in that game only. I mean it in a more fulsome sense. Week to week we are weak, so to speak.

 

[VictorianCrow85]

I wouldn’t. Geelong gets a HUGE home ground advantage…as do the Adelaide and Perth sides. Playing regularly at the MCG matters little if you don’t get there in the first place.

And how often do most sides get there? I can speak from experience that waiting 20 years to get there and coming up against a team that plays there 15 times a year isn't so great. I want to win a premiership, not be a good home and away side. Id take having my home ground for the grand final and it's not even a close decision.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Our ability to chain uncontested possessions, break lines, pass through zones and move the ball forward before the opposition setups is pretty deplorable though. We have players that can win the ball but our ability to starve teams of the ball outside of winning an ungodly amount of contested possessions is pretty bad. Speed definitely matters when it comes to shutting down the oppositions uncontested possessions. No point worrying about winning the ball if we can't force a contest in the first place.

Even against Adelaide we had patches where we dominated possession but it took us about 10 times the effort to gain ground. Not to mention that we move the ball out of defence so slowly that the opposition can jog into position to force the 50/50 kick to the boundary line.

No argument to most of that.

Our ball movement is deplorable....too many too risk averse. Starting on the FB line.

Then there's the delivery inside 50 - worse than deplorable.

None of that is a function of leg speed frankly - poor decision making and low footy IQ more to blame imo.

Weiters must take a lot of the blame - he always (these days) takes the cop out 15m sideways kick....

 

[Pixelshooter]

Please, GC and GWS play on the MCG once all season. They could go through undefeated and then play a 7th place Richmond on their home deck in a grand final. The draw is that compromised that finding an issue in the SA getting an extra game seems pointless to me.

It's an extra HOME GAME mate. In a 23 round season, where they already get a massive home ground advantage, it's an issue. Add to that they can all play home finals on their home track, unlike many Melbourne sides, it's a fair old advantage.

If it's staying there, then it makes any bleating (constant) about how good Melbourne sides have it, completely null and void.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It's an extra HOME GAME mate. In a 23 round season, where they already get a massive home ground advantage, it's an issue. Add to that they can all play home finals on their home track, unlike many Melbourne sides, it's a fair old advantage.

If it's staying there, then it makes any bleating (constant) about how good Melbourne sides have it, completely null and void.

If they have a massive home ground advantage then that means they have a massive disadvantage when they travel every second week. Victorian sides don’t have that issue anywhere as much.
I also think Victorian sides not being able choose their venue is a joke

 

[jpfalvo]

It's an extra HOME GAME mate. In a 23 round season, where they already get a massive home ground advantage, it's an issue. Add to that they can all play home finals on their home track, unlike many Melbourne sides, it's a fair old advantage.

If it's staying there, then it makes any bleating (constant) about how good Melbourne sides have it, completely null and void.

Voss spent 10yrs or so, at Port. He assisted coaching numerous games at Adelaide Oval.

You would think he would have unique knowledge how to play the ground, the nuances, best way to move the ball for the dimensions etc.

Its quite amazing that we are even suggesting we are beaten by a ground.

I recall Malthouse when he joined Carlton, laughing when suggested we can't win or dont play well at Docklands. He set cones up at princes park to mimic the dimensions, and train for it. Something the previous administration hadn't thought of?!

To blame a ground, is an excuse at best and defeatest at worst.

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[Pixelshooter]

If they have a massive home ground advantage then that means they have a massive disadvantage when they travel every second week. Victorian sides don’t have that issue anywhere as much.
I also think Victorian sides not being able choose their venue is a joke

If it's something a side does every second week, they should be pretty well versed on how to do it properly. Unlike sides that don't travel as much, it's much more of a shock to the system.

Fact is if we play Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon, Melbourne at the MCG, even if it's our home game, we have zero home ground advantage. In fact, often the opposite. If people don't think it's an issue we're introducing, I find that odd.

If they move Gather Round around the country, I'd have no issues.

 

[Juddrockz]

Yes I guess it’s so unfair that you don’t play at the G until late June.

Im not against the Gather Round in a particular state,but the teams hosting should be made to play each other like a showdown round.

 

[Juddrockz]

I have to put my hand up and admit I turned the tv off ten minutes into the third. That’s all I’ve got and I will cop what’s coming. Reset for the saints.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Kudos to you! I turned the tv off after the first quarter.

 

[Juddrockz]

Voss spent 10yrs or so, at Port. He assisted coaching numerous games at Adelaide Oval.

You would think he would have unique knowledge how to play the ground, the nuances, best way to move the ball for the dimensions etc.

Its quite amazing that we are even suggesting we are beaten by a ground.

I recall Malthouse when he joined Carlton, laughing when suggested we can't win or dont play well at Docklands. He set cones up at princes park to mimic the dimensions, and train for it. Something the previous administration hadn't thought of?!

To blame a ground, is an excuse at best and defeatest at worst.

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Exactly 100 percent! The boys weren't switched on from the first bounce which seems to happen alot when we play interstate games. You'd think the club/staff would address the issue with the players or their mindset leading into these games?

 

[Magruder]

It’s that unprofessional already, who cares.

It’s ****ed, so let’s make it worse?

 

[Magruder]

If we are going to compare Carlton supporter frustrations to Richmond.

Pre these threads in 2016 and 2017, they played finals 3 years in a row 2013 to 2015.
Finished those season 5, 8 and 5.

They also strung more than 3 games in a row of consecutive wins.

Whilst, we are still waiting to finish beyond 9th after a 10yr, "66game rebuild".

So Carlton people are justified in expressing frustrations here, as it is the sum of all parts, boiling over...

We have all been very patient waiting for us to turn the corner in effort, energy, gameday application and cohesion.

This group is very talented, numerous colemans, a brownlow and AA. However, until we reach finals there will be discontent and concern.

We should still play finals, and finish somewhere 5th to 8th.

However, comparing richmond to carlton is disingenuous without context


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The context doesn’t emerge until later. Which I believe is the point of the post.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

It's an extra HOME GAME mate. In a 23 round season, where they already get a massive home ground advantage, it's an issue. Add to that they can all play home finals on their home track, unlike many Melbourne sides, it's a fair old advantage.

If it's staying there, then it makes any bleating (constant) about how good Melbourne sides have it, completely null and void.

Gather round needs to include the Showdown, simples !!

Geelong & interstate teams main advantage is they get to train on their home ground as well as play on it....

Melbourne teams don’t get to train at MCG or Marvel !!

 

[djholmes]

Michael Voss is not up to it. His press conferences sound just like Bolton's and Teague's. Never puts any pressure on the players - always says we are "learning" and "growing". Lol Essendon are above us in the ladder now. Look what happens when you a hire a coach who knows what he is doing.

I was also against hiring Ross Lyon but he has proved me wrong. Our CEO needs to be fired for not hiring Ross Lyon.

Voss will never make it because he is too soft on the players.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If it's something a side does every second week, they should be pretty well versed on how to do it properly. Unlike sides that don't travel as much, it's much more of a shock to the system.

Fact is if we play Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon, Melbourne at the MCG, even if it's our home game, we have zero home ground advantage. In fact, often the opposite. If people don't think it's an issue we're introducing, I find that odd.

If they move Gather Round around the country, I'd have no issues.

Maybe the AFL are trying to help out all the Victorian sides by giving them the opportunity to travel more in case they have to play interstate in finals….
Travel isn’t good for anyone otherwise you wouldn’t be concerned about Gather round being in Adelaide.

 

[Bletch]

Gather round needs to include the Showdown, simples !!

Geelong & interstate teams main advantage is they get to train on their home ground as well as play on it....

Melbourne teams don’t get to train at MCG or Marvel !!

True. Add to that the home ground advantage is diminished by multiple teams sharing the same home ground. i.e. Pies/Tigs having 16 or so matches at the 'G is certainly an advantage for them, but a good number of those matches are going to be against teams that also play a significant number of matches there. The "crowd effect" is also diminished - e.g. for a Pies v Tigs match at the 'G, the Pies might have a 60/40 advantage in the crowd numbers. Adelaide/Port/WCE/Freo will have 90%+ at pretty much all home matches (except against their home state rival).

 

[Arr0w]

Michael Voss is not up to it. His press conferences sound just like Bolton's and Teague's. Never puts any pressure on the players - always says we are "learning" and "growing". Lol Essendon are above us in the ladder now. Look what happens when you a hire a coach who knows what he is doing.

I was also against hiring Ross Lyon but he has proved me wrong. Our CEO needs to be fired for not hiring Ross Lyon.

Voss will never make it because he is too soft on the players.

Yeap, I saw how many people stated that * had gone past us after 2021, then 2022 rolled out

Saw the same thing with the Saints 3 years ago

Suns, Dockers, etc

Perhaps that's a great indication to just let it unfold a little longer than just 5 rounds, or 1 loss

 

[djholmes]

Yeap, I saw how many people stated that * had gone past us after 2021, then 2022 rolled out

Saw the same thing with the Saints 3 years ago

Suns, Dockers, etc

Perhaps that's a great indication to just let it unfold a little longer than just 5 rounds, or 1 loss

Look at the rubbish list St Kilda have compared to our list. Ross Lyon is working miracles with that rubbish list and Voss is under achieving.

 

[djholmes]

We have been on a 6 year rebuild and still can't beat Adelaide. Are teams are way too soft and always have excuses. We have a bunch a soft mentally weak players who don't care if we lose. O'Brien is a prime example - he is so soft and has no mongrel. Can't even lay a tackle.

 

[Arr0w]

Look at the rubbish list St Kilda have compared to our list. Ross Lyon is working miracles with that rubbish list and Voss is under achieving.

Again, it's really early in the season

Saints started 8-3 last year, their list isn't putrid

 

[Magruder]

Look at the rubbish list St Kilda have compared to our list. Ross Lyon is working miracles with that rubbish list and Voss is under achieving.

I wanted Lyon to coach us.

But your sample sizes are too small right now.

 

[djholmes]

Well I'm making a prediction here. St Kilda will finish above us this year.

 

[Arr0w]

Well I'm making a prediction here. St Kilda will finish above us this year.

1st and us 2nd leading into finals?

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

I think it potentially has a huge impact...when you consider the home gound advantage the Adelaide and Perth sides already have...along with the fact they play home finals on their home deck.



Completely bogus point. Melbourne clubs have very little home ground advantage for most of the season. Granted it's not foreign territory, but when Melbourne teams play other Melbourne teams, it matters little.

When the SA teams play 11 games against an opponent in completely foreign territory, and now a 12th, it has potential to have a major impact.

If they do get to keep this permanently, don't ever whinge about having to play a GF in Melbourne...ever.

It's not like we played a home game in SA spare a thought for GWS who lose a home game to the worst team in the comp.
Maybe we need to have gather round in Vic next year and play Adelaide as their home game maybe that will even the ledger for how unfair it is.