Autopsy 2023 Rd 6 Misfiring Blues drop their bundle again

[Accidental genius]

All the folks banging on about dropping someone for missing a set shot clearly have no idea what actually helps someone get better. Go back and watch some of the interviews Harry did last year when he was seeing some better results. He talks about working with the club psychologist on the idea that it's OK to miss some, which relieves mental pressure, relaxes the body, and gives you a better chance of actually kicking it the way you want to.

Clearly Harry, and JSOS, and Cripps, could all do with a refresher on that right now, but let's be clear. Dropping someone for a missed shot would have the exact opposite effect to what you want. Suddenly everyone knows that a bad miss could see them dropped, the pressure goes way up, and the chance of success goes down. It's a knee-jerk expression of frustration, not a solution.

agree that missing a set shot should not lead to dropping that player

however players like jsos in particular do need to score more goals.

something needs to be done and maybe going back to vfl to work on some issues is how it should work.

 

[windows1]

It would be wonderful if it were that simple, wouldn't it? But as the saying goes, for every problem there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.

Happy to agree to disagree. Jury and stats are in on SOS and his goal kicking. I don’t see it ever changing now. It will continue to let us down.

 

[Arr0w]

Besides SOS easily miss Goal he wasn’t that bad .. kicked 2 and we had 4 worse then him honey curnow fisher and Motlop all playing forward .. I get everyone is pissed off but if sos kicks 2 he has done half his job …

Unfortunately, if, is no longer a justification for Jack. Has a career goal kicking accuracy of less than 52%

 

[Arr0w]

And on the notion that the Saints had more injuries than us, from what I see, only King, Jones, Webster would be in the conversation for definate best 22

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

At the moment we have Williams, Gov, Philp, Marchy, Cuningham, Boyd and Martin who have spent more time injured than playing while at the club. At the end of this season, I think at least 3 of the above will be gone.

If Martin is still signed until 2024 might be almost worth paying him out or just hope he retires or we can settle somehow.

Gov, Boyd, Martin all in our best 22 IMO.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

SOS tries super hard and I love that. The sample size is high on his goal kicking and it’s unacceptably low. Sustainably unacceptably low. For years he’s been 50 percent or less. It’s just not good enough. We have to find guys who can kick accurately. Guys like Jack Gunston.

I just dont think he's a best 22 AFL player. regardless of the fact that he tries super hard.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

agree that missing a set shot should not lead to dropping that player

however players like jsos in particular do need to score more goals.

something needs to be done and maybe going back to vfl to work on some issues is how it should work.

You do know that VFL form means nothing as it is inferior and isn't a just means to learn or promote anyone ..

 

[52Goals4inGranny]

Who would you look at, who has value?

I will get laughed at for this take, but I would trade Cripps, and Mackay. We have Lemmey coming up to take his place.

We could really turn the above two into gold and put our list into a strong place.

From what we have seen so far I don't think either of them have what it takes to go to the highest level. They both wilt under the big lights.

I am not in love with particular players more the club, although even that is waning as the years of failure mount.

Voss has to stay and the players need to either work for him, or go. We went with vossy so now we make it work no matter what.

Bulldogs and Tigers both jettisoned some massive names and went to the next level, now i think of it so did Melbourne

 

[52Goals4inGranny]

The SOS miss is inexcusable. It’s the sort of rubbish that demoralises a team. I want him dropped. A ten year old could have kicked that goal.

You need to be 100 out of 100 on those shots.

Be ruthless. Drop him.

The captain missed one from a very similar spot. He should be even more accountable

 

[Blue and Blue]

Do we go back and retrospectively drop every player that ever missed a shot for goal,
conveniently ignoring their positive moments?
And anyone that thinks a player doesn't care clearly never played any sport at any level.

The whole notion that getting mad at a brick wall and it will fall over is bizarre.

 

[Michael Jezz]

I will get laughed at for this take, but I would trade Cripps, and Mackay. We have Lemmey coming up to take his place.

We could really turn the above two into gold and put our list into a strong place.

From what we have seen so far I don't think either of them have what it takes to go to the highest level. They both wilt under the big lights.

I am not in love with particular players more the club, although even that is waning as the years of failure mount.

Voss has to stay and the players need to either work for him, or go. We went with vossy so now we make it work no matter what.

Bulldogs and Tigers both jettisoned some massive names and went to the next level, now i think of it so did Melbourne

Agree carlton need to explore what is possible

 

[Gez1969]

There’s no need for such negativity- and I’m so pleased that you’ve chosen not to name individual players.

Please tell your nine year old to keep the faith - football is a funny game - bad is never as bad as it seems - it’s only round 6 and we’re still in the eight - I really believe we can turn this around over the next six weeks.

Every Carlton supporter wants to win. Of course we do. BUT you just can’t polish that stinking turd of a game plan.
It is beyond putrid. I watched completely stunned that any reasonable human could expect otherwise. It’s that bad. And the coaches sit in their hands and let it happen. We do nothing to change momentum and react to opposition. Lyon toyed with us on game day!
Caligula fiddled while Rome burned.
We simply must change. However Voss is as brave as he is stubborn and stupid. Bad combination. He actually justified it multiple times in the presser. Delusional.

I’ll never stop supporting Carlton. Right now it feels more like Stockholm syndrome than love.

 

[windows1]

Do we go back and retrospectively drop every player that ever missed a shot for goal,
conveniently ignoring their positive moments?
And anyone that thinks a player doesn't care clearly never played any sport at any level.

The whole notion that getting mad at a brick wall and it will fall over is bizarre.

Legit question: which poster said the player doesn’t care? And which poster is suggesting to drop every player to miss a shot at goal?

To be abundantly clear I am not. SoS has a terrible record kicking for goal over a long period of time and I think it contributes to morale sapping moments in game.

 

[Blue1980]

Boyd may be back this week (in the seniors).

Philp 100% gone.

Cuners and Marchy if they can't get on the park for a decent stretch - and show something.

Martin will stay as he's under contract till end of '24 and he offers nothing on the trade table frankly.

Williams and Guv stay (unless Guv won't take unders pay wise - he owes us).

Yes out of the ones I mentioned I think Boyd, aviv and a Williams best chance of being of use to us.

Martin looks like we are stuck.

Philp is gone as he’s out for the season.

Cuners and Marchy look likely gone unless they can get on the park rest if this season and show a bit in a string of games (highly unlikely).

 

[Stamos]

McKay goal kicking is much maligned but his conversion is way higher than Jack’s. His snapping is belittled but I would be stunned if on the right side of goal he isn’t incredibly highly accurate over time. Just the odd rushed shank that I believe will be sorted out. His horrendous weakness is left side of goals and he knows it which is why he passed off to Hewett. He has way too much natural hook on the ball which makes the math of accuracy very hard on the left side. It would need a dramatic change of action to fix. Frankly, why not try. OR - just don’t lead to that side. Leave it to Chalrie.

The point is, he used to be able to kick goals from the left hand side.
By choosing to snap more, he has destroyed his confidence in kicking drop punts (and I assume practising them a lot less), and therefore killed his percentage of goals kicked from positions where the snap is not the optimal choice (ie anywhere to the left, anywhere further than 30-35 out).

I have no doubt that a snap is a higher percentage shot from certain area of the field. But a lot more of the area inside the 50 meter arc is not that optimal area. So overall, he'd have a much higher percentage conversion if the drop punt was his go-to, most practiced kick.

The other aspect is the importance of routine. A drop punt set shot is the same routine every time. Don't need to think, just follow the routine. With a snap, the routine varies for every shot.
Voss should mandate that H practices drop punts more, and limit the where on the field he is allowed to snap. Confidence, and a higher conversion rate will follow.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

Agree. Also needs to start holding his marks or at least a few more but - this is a big BUT - heart and soul player who gives 100% at every contest and multiple contests afterwards. I'd take 18 of these types then some current 'pretenders'.

I wouldn't be surprised if Boss makes a statement with JSoS this week instead of some others and IMO - that would tell me more about the coach.

I wanted him dropped for it at the time, I was livid. Have calmed down a little now.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Legit question: which poster said the player doesn’t care? And which poster is suggesting to drop every player to miss a shot at goal?

To be abundantly clear I am not. SoS has a terrible record kicking for goal over a long period of time and I think it contributes to morale sapping moments in game.

Fair question mate.
I arent talking about anyone or anything in particular including you. But its been said on this forum often times for years that the players dont care enough or try hard enough. And then its usually asserted that some form of mental violence will fix it, ie the coach doing his narna. Be great if it was that simple.

Jack makes no more errors than a host of players and no doubt brings things to the game beyond his kicking.
His dad missed a lot too, maybe its those bow legs. Thats why he was sent to the backline and excelled for the rest of his career.

But we are in my opinion still a work in progress and there will be ups and downs and changes in personnel and style
etc.

I also think we have enough quality to win every game but as yet the players arent mature enough as a group or individually. That may take a few more years yet as much as I hate to say it. Or it may click next week and we never look back.

 

[Monty1978]

Unfortunately, if, is no longer a justification for Jack. Has a career goal kicking accuracy of less than 52%

What’s his average got to do with it … he played well last weekend 2 goals is decent bar the miss .. coming from you who talks about fisher from 2-3 years ago , give is a rest mate

 

[Arr0w]

What’s his average got to do with it … he played well last weekend 2 goals is decent bar the miss .. coming from you who talks about fisher from 2-3 years ago , give is a rest mate

We are talking about Jack's kicking, which has always been poor, not other aspects of his game

Nor anything to do with any other player

 

[Blue Reaper]

Thought Jack actually had a good game, his miss notwithstanding. Would be happy with a regular 2 goals from him, but his accuracy and goal numbers are generally too low and inconsistent for a 3rd tall (noting his time playing ruck, however).

Overall though, we’re not getting enough goals from our mids, rucks and smalls.

 

[JustaBattler]

Kemp and Dow both say hello Jabba

How did Plowman get a game when Kemp, who has greater upside, was banging down the door in the 2s.

And Honey, well he was doing sweet FA in the 2s, and has continued to do sweet FA in the seniors, and continues to get selected.

And LOB, well he just isn't up to it. Doesn't have the attitude. And what is the definition of insanity again? Binns another option with greater upside

I'm sorry but you cant tell me Voss isn't culpable through selection .

The problem hasnt been defensive structure though has it? The problem isnt midfield either.

Voss is struggling to put together an AFL quality 'other 4 forwards' - let alone finals quality. Thsiisnt helped by midfield contributions being way too infrequent if non existant.

As for Kemp - I've said it for a long time now- he is a natural attacking player who should be used as an attacker- he has been switched between forward and defensive 'learning' in VFL for two years now. However - what do we know- about the reasons why he is being developed as a defender...I have no idea.

As for Dow - clearly he is not on the Club's radar - for whatever reason(s)

We now know that Honey is nowhere near it atm - we have known for a while that LoB has deficiencies - but these blokes are easily changed for - we lack forward craft and smarts and finishing ability - big time.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Every Carlton supporter wants to win. Of course we do. BUT you just can’t polish that stinking turd of a game plan.
It is beyond putrid. I watched completely stunned that any reasonable human could expect otherwise. It’s that bad. And the coaches sit in their hands and let it happen. We do nothing to change momentum and react to opposition. Lyon toyed with us on game day!
Caligula fiddled while Rome burned.
We simply must change. However Voss is as brave as he is stubborn and stupid. Bad combination. He actually justified it multiple times in the presser. Delusional.

I’ll never stop supporting Carlton. Right now it feels more like Stockholm syndrome than love.

Everyone is over thinking this one - we kick straight and we win - the thing that is blocking our objectivity (aside for 20 years of losing) is that we did the exact same thing last year against this mob.

Lyon’s presser was laughable - and possibly done to evoke a response from aggrieved Blues supporters - he knows deep down he won a game they had no right to win. If we kick straight we will smash them next time we play them.

The problem is until we kick straight we run the risk of losing games like this and GWS and West Coast and whoever. The game plan is good enough to keep us in games long enough provided we execute on the scoreboard.

 

[Blue and Blue]

The one thing we lack is a player or two that has been around a long time.
Hard edged proffesional footballers.
We have a lot of enthusiasm and plenty of talent but seriously every one of them is still learning the caper of week to week grit.

 

[BARGE ARSE]

What ? No one told me the comedy show had started. Champagne comedy !

I will get laughed at for this take, but I would trade Cripps, and Mackay. We have Lemmey coming up to take his place.

We could really turn the above two into gold and put our list into a strong place.

From what we have seen so far I don't think either of them have what it takes to go to the highest level. They both wilt under the big lights.

I am not in love with particular players more the club, although even that is waning as the years of failure mount.

Voss has to stay and the players need to either work for him, or go. We went with vossy so now we make it work no matter what.

Bulldogs and Tigers both jettisoned some massive names and went to the next level, now i think of it so did Melbourne

Agree carlton need to explore what is possible

 

[BM123]

He is probably an over thinker so what should be instinctive — he complicates. Too much second guessing.

Ironically overthinking things makes you look pretty thoughtless. Especially in a fast paced competitive setting where you need to rely instinct and what you've drilled into your body. He probaby needs a better kicking routine to improve his consistency. Hell you got pro Tennis players making sure their waters are always arranged and sipped from in the same order because it keeps them grounded.