Autopsy 2023 Rd 8 Mediocre Blues gone after Quarter time

[katmanblue]

I just read in the age that Brissie got 13 of their 15 goals through Carlton's turnover's. That is just disgraceful!! How can these players be so poorly skilled? I'm not on the sack Voss bandwagon yet (though I now have serious reservations about him) but what are they doing in training? Surely they must have drills that put the players in contested pressure situations and drill them to find an effective way out.

More possessions, more contested possessions, more marks, same inside 50's yet a 4 goals loss which would have been more if not for some junk time goals once the pressure was off.

So is it gameplan? Is it skill level? It cant be hunger as they are getting to the ball first, they just seem to have no idea what do with it once they have it. Something's got to give.

I think much of it comes down to decision making.

If you watch the clip below of First Crack, you can see plenty of instances where we've had the outnumber and could have use the handball to move the ball forward, instead we rushed a long kick forward staight to the opposition.

Eliminate that and it's a very different game.




Edit:

also need to acknowledge that Brisbane set up exceptionally well. Every seems focused on us, which is understandable, but they squeezed us extremely well and our backline (playing their 2nf game as a unit) cracked under pressure.

 

[katmanblue]

Even the best C.E.O, in the last 20 years can't get this club to function correctly. If you want your legacy to be tainted, just come to Carlton
I dare say Cook will be wondering if he made the right decision to come now. Or maybe like the rest of the club, he took it on, to top up his super for a couple of years before retirement.

There are lots of 0s in his contract. I'm sure he's fine with it.

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[katmanblue]

Me when Carlton finally make finals again

Graham Kennedy is the only King i recognise.

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[katmanblue]

They're only now just coming good?

What are you smoking?

He became their coach in 2017.

2017 - wooden spoon. Coming from a very long way back

2018 - 15th and flashing signs of growth
.
2019 - second. Out on straight sets. Not unusual for a new group

2020 - second. Lost in prelim to Geelong

2021 - forth - out in straight sets to eventual grand finalists

2022 - sixth - a game behind second and had better percentage than four and five. They were disappointed and made moves to help them lift

For a team that has in your words just come good that's 4 years of finals more than what we've had in the same period when in the year before Fagan (2016) we finished ahead of them on the ladder with both teams rebuilding.

The problem isn't Voss. The problem is that the group hasn't galvanised themselves and lacks the type of leadership required to do so.

We don't have the luxury of time on our hands. We made the move for Voss (not the biggest problem at the club by a long way) believing that this group was one off field move away from being where Brisbane are now.

The problems begin on field.

All with the same coach. How many times have we reset the timeline in that time.

They've never been a serious contender for for a flag. This year they are a real chance.


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[katmanblue]

That he can be jovially chatting with the opposition after the game says he's not got what it takes to lead us anywhere.

Could you imagine Hodge/Voss/Cotchin/Kirk/Selwood doing that?

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[katmanblue]

The streak must continue.

I wonder if they'll make DVD.

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[katmanblue]

The big picture question is why have we played such poor, bog ordinary, footy pretty much ALL year?

We've got guns on all lines across the park, including the two most recent Coleman medalists.

Yet, we've gone backwards, considerably, from last year.

I don't buy the 'they've worked out our game plan' spin.

You win the ball, use it well (ball use and decision making), you invariably win.

I put it very largely down to - what must be a coaching edict - to slow down ball movement in order to 'control' the ball.

This edict stops the players playing instinctive - take the game on - footy and makes them second guess themselves and their team mates....

Very arguably a coaching overreaction to last year's much publicized moments where we gave up a swag of consecutive goals?

That's not to excuse the deplorable skills we witnessed on Friday - from most - that was hopefully just an aberration (but again contributed to by the clash of edict vs. natural instinct?).

At the micro level, there's the decline of Weiters - he needs time off in my opinion. Something NQR there.

Still reckon we'll beat the Dogs. Go Blues.

Possibly having guns on every line might be an issue if those guns don't trust their teammates.

Eg, Walsh is notorious demanding the ball when in an inferior position to his "lesser" teammates and/or ignoring those in a better position, to just kick it long. Often ends up in a turnover rather than retaining possession.

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[Accidental genius]

I think much of it comes down to decision making.

If you watch the clip below of First Crack, you can see plenty of instances where we've had the outnumber and could have use the handball to move the ball forward, instead we rushed a long kick forward staight to the opposition.

Eliminate that and it's a very different game.




Edit:

also need to acknowledge that Brisbane set up exceptionally well. Every seems focused on us, which is understandable, but they squeezed us extremely well and our backline (playing their 2nf game as a unit) cracked under pressure.

Yeah those examples from first crack are really good. Our players aren’t looking to run the ball in they prefer kicking long. You can see the players in space waving their arms and presumably yelling for the handball are being over looked. Why is the big question. Coaching instructions or players not looking/listening to calls from team mates.

 

[jj1978]

Possibly having guns on every line might be an issue if those guns don't trust their teammates.

Eg, Walsh is notorious demanding the ball when in an inferior position to his "lesser" teammates and/or ignoring those in a better position, to just kick it long. Often ends up in a turnover rather than retaining possession.

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Or our constant need to pass to Cripps who already has his man beside him thinking he'll break free and propel us forward.

 

[LFTWNG11]

Not saying it's going to happen but teams have the ability to flick the switch quickly and get stuff right after playing some mediocre footy at times.

Richmond in 2019 were 7-6 with a percentage of 92% and sitting 9th at the bye. They were also 9-6 having conceded 15 of the first 16 goals to st.kilda in 2017 (both premiership years).

Geelong we're 5-4 after 9 rounds last year. Most teams aren't clicking early in the season.

I think the best thing we can do is to acknowledge that our game plan isn't working and tinker with it so we aren't getting strangled down the line like we did on Friday night.

Things can turn around pretty quickly but we need to address some hard truths and get the game back on our terms.

Can we please stop comparing this side's predicament with premiership sides who have been in similar positions? Not having a crack at you personally but I have heard this sprouted in the media and even some within the club for over the past decade... I think it's actually a symptom of how poor the mentality around Carlton is. Always trying to copy what other clubs are doing or have done... meanwhile the game moves on and Carlton is 2 seasons behind the times in terms of style of play and how to run the football department. Our membership department seem to be on the ball though.

The sole focus should be on making the best assessment of where Carlton and the game is at now, and what Carlton need to do to get better based on how the game is trending. One thing no one can accuse Carlton of in the last 20 years is being innovative.

 

[Accidental genius]

Can we please stop comparing this side's predicament with premiership sides who have been in similar positions? Not having a crack at you personally but I have heard this sprouted in the media and even some within the club for over the past decade... I think it's actually a symptom of how poor the mentality around Carlton is. Always trying to copy what other clubs are doing or have done... meanwhile the game moves on and Carlton is 2 seasons behind the times in terms of style of play and how to run the football department. Our membership department seem to be on the ball though.

The sole focus should be on making the best assessment of where Carlton and the game is at now, and what Carlton need to do to get better based on how the game is trending. One thing no one can accuse Carlton of in the last 20 years is being innovative.

Good point.

 

[AndyNicka]

Can we please stop comparing this side's predicament with premiership sides who have been in similar positions? Not having a crack at you personally but I have heard this sprouted in the media and even some within the club for over the past decade... I think it's actually a symptom of how poor the mentality around Carlton is. Always trying to copy what other clubs are doing or have done... meanwhile the game moves on and Carlton is 2 seasons behind the times in terms of style of play and how to run the football department. Our membership department seem to be on the ball though.

The sole focus should be on making the best assessment of where Carlton and the game is at now, and what Carlton need to do to get better based on how the game is trending. One thing no one can accuse Carlton of in the last 20 years is being innovative.

I hear what you're saying but take Richmond of 2017 who had been us but +15 years. At 9-6 their situation looked eerily similar to us last year but they happened to crack the trend and get their act together.

Like I said it may not happen to us but it can change quickly and sometimes without notice.

 

[bourbons]

Time to trade Cripps.

His value is high still and we need to build around Walsh now.

2 first round picks from the right team would go a long way to doing just that.

Not actually averse to that, but also for his sake as much as the club's.

Bloke has carried us his whole career and there's a real chance he won't play in a single final if he sticks around. Deserves better than that.

 

[goreds]

Not actually averse to that, but also for his sake as much as the club's.

Bloke has carried us his whole career and there's a real chance he won't play in a single final if he sticks around. Deserves better than that.

Will only go home if the club wants to move him on…

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Not actually averse to that, but also for his sake as much as the club's.

Bloke has carried us his whole career and there's a real chance he won't play in a single final if he sticks around. Deserves better than that.

And his chances moving forward at freo or West Coast?

 

[Aphrodite]

I wonder if they'll make DVD.

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St Kilda Board

 

[bourbons]

Will only go home if the club wants to move him on…

And his chances moving forward at freo or West Coast?

You'd have to ask him.

If he has no interest in playing for anyone except Carlton or a Perth team thats fine, but at least have the conversation with him. Like I said, deserves better than to be the player he has and not play a single final for his career.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Our players aren’t looking to run the ball in they prefer kicking long. You can see the players in space waving their arms and presumably yelling for the handball are being over looked. Why is the big question. Coaching instructions or players not looking/listening to calls from team mates.

We've been trained to play a certain system for quite awhile now.
If any players ignored instructions, they wouldn't be in the side, would they?
Chipping it around a few times, then kick it long to one of our tall forwards is the game plan.

 

[carlton_99]

An interesting part of the presser - Voss starts to say something and then stops himself... Any thoughts?

 

[JustaBattler]

An interesting part of the presser - Voss starts to say something and then stops himself... Any thoughts?

What was the question /comment being asked/made I cant make it out....

it starts " do you see a "con ( something) __________in the middle ..."?

and Voss says quickly "yeah I do I do "...and then says not for today....

 

[Aphrodite]

An interesting part of the presser - Voss starts to say something and then stops himself... Any thoughts?

What was the question /comment being asked/made I cant make it out....

it starts " do you see a "con ( something) __________in the middle ..."?

and Voss says quickly "yeah I do I do "...and then says not for today....

AFL R8 | Voss post-match

AFL Senior Coach Michael Voss' press conference after the clash with Brisbane.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Blue since 72]

What was the question /comment being asked/made I cant make it out....

it starts " do you see a "con ( something) __________in the middle ..."?

and Voss says quickly "yeah I do I do "...and then says not for today....

It was question about the middle and did he (Voss) think it was right, as in balance/personnel. The words were "do you think you have the right mix in the middle"

 

[carlton_99]

What was the question /comment being asked/made I cant make it out....

it starts " do you see a "con ( something) __________in the middle ..."?

and Voss says quickly "yeah I do I do "...and then says not for today....

"do you think you have the right mix in the middle"

 

[katmanblue]

Half the issue was Brisbane players outworking their Carlton direct opponents and getting into clear space - very poor marking efforts - the other half of the issue was Young seems to not have a clue about actually punching a ball in that game

he had a shocker - no biggie he wasnt alone.

A couple of them looked like he barely got a fist to the ball. Hard to direct it when your arm is behind your head.

Is that a function of mis-timing his leap or mis reading the flight of the ball, I'm not sure. Possibly both. Either way, I think this is the main problem. The misdirection of the ball is a symptom.

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[Earls Smother]

Yeah those examples from first crack are really good. Our players aren’t looking to run the ball in they prefer kicking long. You can see the players in space waving their arms and presumably yelling for the handball are being over looked. Why is the big question. Coaching instructions or players not looking/listening to calls from team mates.

I think the obvious problem here is us - the supporters.

We have too many members and general supporters who turn up in droves to games. When we get there, we make noise, that we assume helps the team. They clearly can't hear each other calling for the ball.

We need to give them a month or two where no-one turns up, so they can hone their communication skills. Then slowly re-introduce support in a staggered fashion to see if they cope.

It's not Voss, nor the players, it's us. It's always been us.