Autopsy 2023 Rd 8 Mediocre Blues gone after Quarter time

[therubbernub]

A picture paints a thousand words....

 

[passmark]

Watching the games this weekend many seemed to be played at a level of pressure we’d struggle to cope with.

 

[SBYM]

But you don't understand!

If they cannot make the finals, they cannot lose a final to prolong their streak!

In Ken We Trust.

 

[GossipBoy]

Ok I am hesitant to post here because my football ability was pretty poor growing up. But I have loved the Blues for 35+ years and sadly my mood (at least for 24 hours) is driven by our results each week. I also watch every game every week and have done for 20+ years (SuperCoach lover).

At the beginning of the year I had us top 4 - definitely top 6. I thought we would lose a prelim. I had Brisbane losing to Melbourne in the Grand Final and the Power the other prelim loser. Had Pies sliding (wishful thinking!). In my view we are definitely underachieving at the moment. From my amateur experience I think our game plan is wrong. We seem to hug the wings/boundary and do not go direct to goal. Our players do not run side to side like other teams, but tend to get caught on the wrong side of the ground often. When you have two AA gun forwards, should quick ball movement not be the centre of your game plan? I also think we play far too loose in the back half of the ground. At maximum one defender should play off their man - the rest should wear them like glue and only split to make options when we have the ball. Our forwards also all lead to the same place - I never understood this and haven't for 10+ years. We don't seem to teach leading patterns.

I think the team mix is wrong. We are too tall and don't have enough run. All being fit, I would set up as follows:

Defence:
Cincotta Weitering Newman
Saad TDK Docherty

- retrain TDK as a CHB. Or play McGovern or Young instead (probably Young because I would trade McGovern - yes Young had a stinker)
- we go in too tall. Play Weiters and TDK (or Young/McGovern) and have our ruck float back in defence to give some height back there and clog up the opposition forward line
- only the smalls kick more than 15m out of defence and the goal is to rebound quickly down the centre of the ground

Midfield:

Pittonet Cerra Cripps
Walsh Acres Cotterell

- Cripps will play 70% mid and 30% forward swapping with Kennedy
- Walsh, Cripps and Cotterell attend 70% of centre bounces. Acres and Walsh on the wings sweep through
- Cotterell is training to be a gun tagger. He gets the opposition best mid every week. He has the tank and the mongrel

Forwards:

Durdin Curnow Kennedy
Motlop McKay Owies

- Curnow moves up the ground between 30 - 70m
- McKay stays in the front 30 and leads from the square. If he goes down the middle Curnow leads left (or links up) and Kennedy goes right
- Kennedy plays as third tall and swaps with Cripps. Cripps needs kicking practice
- Motlop, Owies and Durdin are told they have two jobs, be at the fall of the ball and tackle hard

Bench:

Hewett Hollands (whichever of Young/McGovern)

Sub - SOS - can play either end

Simple game plan. With the ball we quick it to leading players with corridor football. Our forwards are taught to lead not all run to the same place. Without the ball everyone has one job - stick to your man and tackle. Also a team rule if one of ours gets hit hard or tackled hard everyone in the vicinity slams the offender into the ground/fence. You don't, you don't play next week. Also if you can smile after a loss it doesn't mean enough to you - automatic month in the VFL regardless of who you are

 

[Jimmyonesix]

But it’s now 8 seasons since it all began

The whole plan was a crap shoot.. there was no foundation in the football department or development .. let's not get into the list fillers salary dump rubbish ..
was all ego driven.

 

[Thrawn]

Any trade is a gamble whether it's for picks or players. Are we contending or rebuilding? Better sides than us have off loaded quality players to fill multiple holes. If we can get quality HFF's and another winger than I'd ship him off. We don't lack for inside mids.

You talk about conviction while using weak excuses like "oh he just looks like he is jogging" or "he's being held". Mate coaches have learnt he doesn't run both ways and it's killed us. He's not the first big bloke to play midfield either. How many excuses you going to throw out for a professional footballer? He isn't losing to just 1 on 2's either. Consistently losing front position 1 on and 1 then watching his opponent run off him for free. Talking about him like he's just a big victim...Cripps opponent isn't even his responsibility according to you so what's the point?

Playing with freedom.....it was the same crap we pulled last time we tried to contend and it fell apart once teams tightened up on us. Cripps was playing good halves then going asleep with the rest of our midfield. You mention the Collingwood game as if it was the only game that mattered. Not like we lost out on finals on percentage after giving away massive leads to bottom four teams. Cripps went missing quite often last year but at least he looked great playing unaccountable footy with the rest of the team. That style really worked well for us in 2012 and last sesson. The players really wanted Teague for a reason I see.

Yeah mate he is jogging because the coaches told him to right? Our bullocking 194cm midfielder needs other inside mids to cover for him so his opponent doesn't get to be best on ground for free again. Maybe he could try to create space for others.....he's got the frame for it.

If you think he's killing it good for you. We got different standards on what's appropriate. I guess someone should have told the countless players in worse sides with less structure they don't need to cover their man.

Name names, instead of being vague.

Those aren't excuses, I already said that Cripps isn't fully absolved but there are other factors at play here. What I actually disagree with you about is that we should trade him, and that he's a peaheart.

The Collingwood game was the one that mattered, being the most significant game since our EF against Richmond. He stood up when it mattered, in our most important game for almost a decade. The other games were not a do-or-die, certainly not so early vs Hawthorn or Port where we squandered big leads. Even in the games we were supposed to win, like vs Adelaide, he pulled his weight. But of course, you're downplaying the most important game of all because it doesn't suit your "Cripps is a peaheart" narrative.

Mate, it's our whole midfield setup. They are being poorly coached. When he has two blokes hanging off him constantly and the the umpire doesn't notice (or doesn't want to), then where is the support for him? Where's that loose player? What are the coaches doing to rectify this? Something that was our best strength is one of our glaring weaknesses... Cripps is not always going to be in good form, not always going to dominate. This is where a tactical change comes in. Change things up. How Cripps is currently playing is a symptom of a larger disease. You can argue this is the case for a few other players, too.

I'm not saying he's killing it, I'm saying you're objectively wrong about him being a peaheart and that trading him would be a massive mistake. The same thing was said about Eddie Betts during Malthouse's tenure, that he wasn't doing enough, that we could get currency from him... etc etc. I've heard it all before. And then look what happened, he goes into a club with a decent system in place and he dominates. Meanwhile we didn't really get anything to compensate for him.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

All this talk about Cripps… he’s just going to ground too easily and needs to hold his position at stoppages. He’s either playing too desperately or he’s carrying a lower leg injury and doesn’t want to plant his feet in case someone comes crashing in. I thinks it’s as simple as that.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Harry has zero second efforts and it's shits me. He has one go then drops his head or flops his arms around.

His 2nd effort is to appeal for a free

 

[BlueTongue]

For those wondering why Young was subbed off:


He kept the ball alive by spoiling to dangerous positions, which cost us 13 points. Not to mention the handball to nobody that led to 3rd goal.

“He kept the ball alive by spoiling to dangerous positions”

not exactly sure what you expect here. He is not in a ruck contest, he is spoiling an OP mark. If he doesn’t spoil that it is a certain mark and goal. The fact that none of our other players were anywhere near their opponents or fall of the ball is more damning on those supposedly assisting.

 

[Coops93]

“He kept the ball alive by spoiling to dangerous positions”

not exactly sure what you expect here. He is not in a ruck contest, he is spoiling an OP mark. If he doesn’t spoil that it is a certain mark and goal. The fact that none of our other players were anywhere near their opponents or fall of the ball is more damning on those supposedly assisting.

Defenders are taught to not punch the ball back into the corridor/dangerous areas, that's definitely a mistake from him. Also one in the goal square he spoiled back into play instead of punching through for a point. Little 1%ers like that do make a difference and are certainly coached at AFL level.

Heck I remember playing CHB in under 12s and being told to always punch towards the boundary so I'd be shocked if AFL aren't doing the same.

 

[Blue and Blue]

always punch towards the boundary so I'd be shocked if AFL aren't doing the same.

Then get pinged for deliberate............

 

[Coops93]

Then get pinged for deliberate............

Can't be pinged for deliberate when spoiling a marking contest.

 

[JustaBattler]

Watching the games this weekend many seemed to be played at a level of pressure we’d struggle to cope with.

Reading the post-game comments - many would struggle not to laugh

 

[JustaBattler]

Then get pinged for deliberate............

Half the issue was Brisbane players outworking their Carlton direct opponents and getting into clear space - very poor marking efforts - the other half of the issue was Young seems to not have a clue about actually punching a ball in that game

he had a shocker - no biggie he wasnt alone.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Half the issue was Brisbane players outworking their Carlton direct opponents and getting into clear space - very poor marking efforts - the other half of the issue was Young seems to not have a clue about actually punching a ball in that game

he had a shocker - no biggie he wasnt alone.

Not sure what this has to do with my post mate.
I was merely pointing out the perils of heading the ball towards that white line............

But yes a few players let themselves down

 

[JustaBattler]

Not sure what this has to do with my post mate.
I was merely pointing out the perils of heading the ball towards that white line............

But yes a few players let themselves down

I agree that if you make a punch OOB obvious you will get penalised. I was just moving the discussion on digging into repeat errors made by Young ( and his mates)

I think that the defensive structure and system is set up for a lot of intercept marking but (like all defenses) looks shambolic when the ball goes to ground. What fixes that is making sure that non-competing crumbers are covered. I think the work rate from a few defenders was really poor against a swarming Brisbane - that is on the players. Brisbane got too many joe the gooses in what should have been close marked contested situations - they had too many numbers too often

 

[out of harmes' way]

Another test, another FAIL! Correct me if I'm wrong but we are an AFL team with the skills of a park side. What do they do at training???. Seriously over false dawns and rebuilding the rebuild. Don't blame fans for booing and walking out. We've had enough! Take away the first 10 rounds of last year Voss' record is poor. Surely, if we don't make finals, his time is up too. Carlton FC: approaching 30 years of mediocrity.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I agree that if you make a punch OOB obvious you will get penalised. I was just moving the discussion on digging into repeat errors made by Young ( and his mates)

I think that the defensive structure and system is set up for a lot of intercept marking but (like all defenses) looks shambolic when the ball goes to ground. What fixes that is making sure that non-competing crumbers are covered. I think the work rate from a few defenders was really poor against a swarming Brisbane - that is on the players. Brisbane got too many joe the gooses in what should have been close marked contested situations - they had too many numbers too often

 

[jj1978]

Another test, another FAIL! Correct me if I'm wrong but we are an AFL team with the skills of a park side. What do they do at training???. Seriously over false dawns and rebuilding the rebuild. Don't blame fans for booing and walking out. We've had enough! Take away the first 10 rounds of last year Voss' record is poor. Surely, if we don't make finals, his time is up too. Carlton FC: approaching 30 years of mediocrity.

Correct we're now hitting round 9 this season... so almost a full season since our wheels started falling off and Voss's record aint much better than that of Bolton and Teagues.

 

[Wickzki]

All this talk about Cripps… he’s just going to ground too easily and needs to hold his position at stoppages. He’s either playing too desperately or he’s carrying a lower leg injury and doesn’t want to plant his feet in case someone comes crashing in. I thinks it’s as simple as that.

Agree with this. The only time he's genuinely going for burst lately is when he's wide open and/or the likelihood of eignificant contact is minimised. He's quite clearly playing hurt or something is going on. Otherwise he's just stuck in mud.

It's even impacted where he positions himself at the actual contest. If it doesn't go right he's often out of position and helpless to do anything to counter.

 

[Aphrodite]

What they said: Cerra shares frustration

Adam Cerra spoke to the media following the Blues' Round 8 loss.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Wickzki]

What they said: Cerra shares frustration

Adam Cerra spoke to the media following the Blues' Round 8 loss.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Good to see Cez get some added responsibility. He's someone that I want to see advancing in the leadership group. Plays both ways just as hard as one another and is very accountable

No blame in his words just good team oriented approach.

Like.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I agree that if you make a punch OOB obvious you will get penalised. I was just moving the discussion on digging into repeat errors made by Young ( and his mates)

I think that the defensive structure and system is set up for a lot of intercept marking but (like all defenses) looks shambolic when the ball goes to ground. What fixes that is making sure that non-competing crumbers are covered. I think the work rate from a few defenders was really poor against a swarming Brisbane - that is on the players. Brisbane got too many joe the gooses in what should have been close marked contested situations - they had too many numbers too often

In a marking contest if the defender punched the ball out of bounds they cannot be penalised for deliberate out of bounds/insufficient intent.

The previous posters were complaining about Young knocking the ball into dangerous areas instead of towards the boundary as he done in previous games.

This is yet another example of the poor decision making that seems to plague this team as I doubt the coaches are instructing the players to do it.

On Friday we got enough of the ball to win but we just butchered it so badly by hand and foot that no defensive structure could have saved the day.

IMO poor skills and decision making under pressure are the biggest things holding us back at the moment more so than the game plan/style.

 

[Juddernaut08]

What they said: Cerra shares frustration

Adam Cerra spoke to the media following the Blues' Round 8 loss.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Perhaps a controversial opinion, and I'll preface this by saying I think Cerra has been our best player this year (perhaps he and Charlie)...but I did not like that he said it wouldn't be a failure not to make finals.

This is our second year under Voss. He's had more time to get the players to understand his methodology and develop a gameplan that wins games. We should be improving not going backwards. It's not that we've lost any of our talent from last year, in fact we're in the perfect age demographic to be challenging.

Making finals should be the passmark this year.

 

[JustaBattler]

In a marking contest if the defender punched the ball out of bounds they cannot be penalised for deliberate out of bounds/insufficient intent.

The previous posters were complaining about Young knocking the ball into dangerous areas instead of towards the boundary as he done in previous games.

This is yet another example of the poor decision making that seems to plague this team as I doubt the coaches are instructing the players to do it.

On Friday we got enough of the ball to win but we just butchered it so badly by hand and foot that no defensive structure could have saved the day.

IMO poor skills and decision making under pressure are the biggest things holding us back at the moment more so than the game plan/style.

Yes you are right - hard to punch laterally to a boundary adjacent to the goal square when you are approaching the high ball straight on as well.

There is a big disconnect in working the ball atm - the lack of forward handballing - which used to be a strong feature between the arcs- seems to have been forgotten and replaced by errant kicks ...