News 2023 St Kilda Media Thread

[jwikked]

Any one get behind this paywall?

Ross Lyon says he ‘found out a lot about individuals’ in Friday night’s loss to the Lions.

STORY | bit.ly/3D2uIlf

Sorry I got the wrong article.

In the first half at Marvel Stadium, it was nowhere to be seen.
The only dare associated with the Saints was their iced coffee sponsorship.
There was no boldness with the ball. They were slow and stagnant and stuck in their back half.
Brad Johnson suggested they were in a bit of a slumber.
Maybe they needed a caffeine hit.

Jack Steele leads the Saints off after the loss to Brisbane. Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty Images
“They’re doing a lot of walking,” Johnson said. He said the energy wasn’t the same as earlier in the season.
It also wasn’t the same as spurts in the second half. Mitchito Owens took a contested mark at halfback and thumped it to Jack Higgins at half-forward.
Higgins found Ryan Byrnes and the Saints had their first goal from a defensive 50m launch.
It was the fifth time from 30 attempts they had moved the ball from one arc to the other.
The Saints were a fingertip away from closing within 10 points in the last quarter, but a silent goal review showed Max King’s snap was touched off the boot.
But the signs of life were scarce. Where was that sense of adventure from the start?
Seb Ross said in 2021 the Saints played a “boring” style, and co-captain Jarryn Geary agreed.
“We need to get back to playing some exciting footy, which is what we were really known for last year (2020),” Geary said.
In 2022, St Kilda started all guns blazing under Brett Ratten with an 8-3 record, to sit in the top four at the halfway, mark before crashing and burning and missing out on the finals.

Where was the dare from St Kilda on Friday night? Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty Images
But returning coach Ross Lyon has rubbished comparisons between his current side and the Saints of he past few seasons.
“I don’t know if this is appropriate. Sometimes people look for conspiracy where there’s just stupidity or, in this case, poor form,” Lyon said after Friday night’s loss.
“I don’t think you can compare it. Our first half of the year we did it without key personnel, we got Max (King) back (recently) and we did it with a bunch of kids that we’ve still got (in the senior team).
“There’s still no (Tim) Membrey (knee), (Dan) McKenzie (calf) was really critical ... and (Zak) Jones (Achilles).
“I understand the narrative and there’s no judgment for me in it, but I think it’s apples and oranges.
“We played a pretty good team (Brisbane) tonight and last week we could’ve easily won (against Richmond).
“I’m not looking at it (as if) it’s the same year and the same event.”
MRO LATEST: WILL KEY SAINTS BE PUNISHED?

Coach Ross Lyon wasn’t happy with the comparisons. Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty Images
Commentator Dwayne Russell remarked early that ground staff could’ve left the centre square roped off as the play hugged the boundary lines.
It also tightly embraced Brisbane’s forward line. The Lions led inside 50s 14-2 at one stage and only their inaccuracy kept the score interesting.
In the first eight rounds the Saints ranked 6th for time in forward-half differential. They were +2min 51sec.
From rounds 9-14 they slipped to 13th. They were -4min 5sec. Midway through the third quarter the Saints were in the red by more than 10 minutes.
The ball lived in their backline because the Lions were livelier at stoppages. Again, that’s where the Saints have shrunken.
In rounds 1-8 they were +0.8 in clearances. In rounds 9-14 they were -6.8 (17th) and last night they were -10.
The centre-clearance goal to Joe Daniher after the three quarter-time siren and Lachie Neale setting up Jarrod Berry for a forward stoppage goal earlier that term were telling.
Neale pinched the ball from Rowan Marshall and handballed to Berry’s advantage. Johnson said Saints players stood stationary.
“I found out a lot about individuals tonight and I’ll absorb it all and process it, but we’re pretty keen to turn it around, I know we’re better than that,” Lyon said.
“It highlights in the short-term improvement, and the long-term personnel-wise where we need to get to as well.”

Eric Hipwood and Lachie Neale celebrate a Brisbane goal. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images

Oscar McInerney and Rowan Marshall went toe-to-toe in the ruck. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos
It’s no surprise the club’s list management committee has one player type at the top of its off-season wishlist.
A midfielder with speed. Someone and agility, who can get out of contests quickly.
Dan McKenzie, Zak Jones and Jack Billings will return through the VFL on Saturday but you suspect the Saints want a genuine A-grade dynamic midfielder.
Guessing they would also love a Harris Andrews-type. Who wouldn’t? Andrews had eight marks by the time the Saints had eight points.
Andrews’ 13th mark – taken against Mitch Owens and Cooper Sharman – led to Cameron Rayner’s first goal.
It didn’t look like fourth versus fifth on the ladder.
But the Lions climbed to third and by Sunday the Saints could sit seventh, which would feel like a truer reflection of their gap.

SCOREBOARD​

SAINTS 1.0, 2.3, 6.5, 8.8 (56)
LIONS 3.4, 5.8, 9.8, 12.12 (84)
RONNY LERNER’S BEST
Saints: Sinclair, Webster, Wanganeen-Milera, Battle, Steele, Crouch.
Lions: Andrews, Hipwood, Payne, Daniher, Dunkley, Neale, Wilmot.
GOALS
Saints: Higgins, Butler, Wanganeen-Milera, Caminiti, Byrnes, Hill, Gresham, Sinclair.
Lions: Hipwood 4, Daniher 2, Bailey, Dunkley, Berry, Rayner, K.Coleman, Cameron.
REPORTS Max King (St Kilda) for striking Ryan Lester (Brisbane) in the second quarter, Liam Stocker (St Kilda) for engaging in rough conduct with Eric Hipwood (Brisbane) in the second quarter.
UMPIRES Power, Nicholls, Broadbent, Gianfagna
VENUE Marvel Stadium
PLAYER OF THE YEAR
LERNER’S VOTES
3 Harris Andrews (BL)
2 Eric Hipwood (BL)
1 Jack Payne (BL)

 

[Imtellingya]

Sorry I got the wrong article.

In the first half at Marvel Stadium, it was nowhere to be seen.
The only dare associated with the Saints was their iced coffee sponsorship.
There was no boldness with the ball. They were slow and stagnant and stuck in their back half.
Brad Johnson suggested they were in a bit of a slumber.
Maybe they needed a caffeine hit.

Jack Steele leads the Saints off after the loss to Brisbane. Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty Images
“They’re doing a lot of walking,” Johnson said. He said the energy wasn’t the same as earlier in the season.
It also wasn’t the same as spurts in the second half. Mitchito Owens took a contested mark at halfback and thumped it to Jack Higgins at half-forward.
Higgins found Ryan Byrnes and the Saints had their first goal from a defensive 50m launch.
It was the fifth time from 30 attempts they had moved the ball from one arc to the other.
The Saints were a fingertip away from closing within 10 points in the last quarter, but a silent goal review showed Max King’s snap was touched off the boot.
But the signs of life were scarce. Where was that sense of adventure from the start?
Seb Ross said in 2021 the Saints played a “boring” style, and co-captain Jarryn Geary agreed.
“We need to get back to playing some exciting footy, which is what we were really known for last year (2020),” Geary said.
In 2022, St Kilda started all guns blazing under Brett Ratten with an 8-3 record, to sit in the top four at the halfway, mark before crashing and burning and missing out on the finals.

Where was the dare from St Kilda on Friday night? Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty Images
But returning coach Ross Lyon has rubbished comparisons between his current side and the Saints of he past few seasons.
“I don’t know if this is appropriate. Sometimes people look for conspiracy where there’s just stupidity or, in this case, poor form,” Lyon said after Friday night’s loss.
“I don’t think you can compare it. Our first half of the year we did it without key personnel, we got Max (King) back (recently) and we did it with a bunch of kids that we’ve still got (in the senior team).
“There’s still no (Tim) Membrey (knee), (Dan) McKenzie (calf) was really critical ... and (Zak) Jones (Achilles).
“I understand the narrative and there’s no judgment for me in it, but I think it’s apples and oranges.
“We played a pretty good team (Brisbane) tonight and last week we could’ve easily won (against Richmond).
“I’m not looking at it (as if) it’s the same year and the same event.”
MRO LATEST: WILL KEY SAINTS BE PUNISHED?

Coach Ross Lyon wasn’t happy with the comparisons. Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty Images
Commentator Dwayne Russell remarked early that ground staff could’ve left the centre square roped off as the play hugged the boundary lines.
It also tightly embraced Brisbane’s forward line. The Lions led inside 50s 14-2 at one stage and only their inaccuracy kept the score interesting.
In the first eight rounds the Saints ranked 6th for time in forward-half differential. They were +2min 51sec.
From rounds 9-14 they slipped to 13th. They were -4min 5sec. Midway through the third quarter the Saints were in the red by more than 10 minutes.
The ball lived in their backline because the Lions were livelier at stoppages. Again, that’s where the Saints have shrunken.
In rounds 1-8 they were +0.8 in clearances. In rounds 9-14 they were -6.8 (17th) and last night they were -10.
The centre-clearance goal to Joe Daniher after the three quarter-time siren and Lachie Neale setting up Jarrod Berry for a forward stoppage goal earlier that term were telling.
Neale pinched the ball from Rowan Marshall and handballed to Berry’s advantage. Johnson said Saints players stood stationary.
“I found out a lot about individuals tonight and I’ll absorb it all and process it, but we’re pretty keen to turn it around, I know we’re better than that,” Lyon said.
“It highlights in the short-term improvement, and the long-term personnel-wise where we need to get to as well.”

Eric Hipwood and Lachie Neale celebrate a Brisbane goal. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images

Oscar McInerney and Rowan Marshall went toe-to-toe in the ruck. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos
It’s no surprise the club’s list management committee has one player type at the top of its off-season wishlist.
A midfielder with speed. Someone and agility, who can get out of contests quickly.
Dan McKenzie, Zak Jones and Jack Billings will return through the VFL on Saturday but you suspect the Saints want a genuine A-grade dynamic midfielder.
Guessing they would also love a Harris Andrews-type. Who wouldn’t? Andrews had eight marks by the time the Saints had eight points.
Andrews’ 13th mark – taken against Mitch Owens and Cooper Sharman – led to Cameron Rayner’s first goal.
It didn’t look like fourth versus fifth on the ladder.
But the Lions climbed to third and by Sunday the Saints could sit seventh, which would feel like a truer reflection of their gap.

SCOREBOARD​

SAINTS 1.0, 2.3, 6.5, 8.8 (56)
LIONS 3.4, 5.8, 9.8, 12.12 (84)
RONNY LERNER’S BEST
Saints: Sinclair, Webster, Wanganeen-Milera, Battle, Steele, Crouch.
Lions: Andrews, Hipwood, Payne, Daniher, Dunkley, Neale, Wilmot.
GOALS
Saints: Higgins, Butler, Wanganeen-Milera, Caminiti, Byrnes, Hill, Gresham, Sinclair.
Lions: Hipwood 4, Daniher 2, Bailey, Dunkley, Berry, Rayner, K.Coleman, Cameron.
REPORTS Max King (St Kilda) for striking Ryan Lester (Brisbane) in the second quarter, Liam Stocker (St Kilda) for engaging in rough conduct with Eric Hipwood (Brisbane) in the second quarter.
UMPIRES Power, Nicholls, Broadbent, Gianfagna
VENUE Marvel Stadium
PLAYER OF THE YEAR
LERNER’S VOTES
3 Harris Andrews (BL)
2 Eric Hipwood (BL)
1 Jack Payne (BL)

……..and here we are on Monday morning still in 5th spot on the ladder and with no fines or suspensions from the match.

 

[hayes]

……..and here we are on Monday morning still in 5th spot on the ladder and with no fines or suspensions from the match.

It’s just delaying the inevitable IMO. The teams just below us are only one win behind and our last three games are Richmond, Geelong and Brisbane at the Gabba and we won’t be winning any of those. There’s also a game against Melbourne in there as well. There’s no way we’re playing finals and TBH that’s probably for the best so we can stop overrating ourselves and focus on adding to Owens, Phillipou etc. At least we’ve got some young players to be excited about this time.

 

[Imtellingya]

It’s just delaying the inevitable IMO. The teams just below us are only one win behind and our last three games are Richmond, Geelong and Brisbane at the Gabba and we won’t be winning any of those. There’s also a game against Melbourne in there as well. There’s no way we’re playing finals and TBH that’s probably for the best so we can stop overrating ourselves and focus on adding to Owens, Phillipou etc. At least we’ve got some young players to be excited about this time.

I agree that we may not make finals, with some tough games coming up, but the fact that we will have maintained a spot in the top 8 for the majority of the season, blooded some kids and had a good look at our list shows that we are on the right track.

 

[hayes]

I agree that we may not make finals, with some tough games coming up, but the fact that we will have maintained a spot in the top 8 for the majority of the season, blooded some kids and had a good look at our list shows that we are on the right track.

Ultimately the goal shouldn’t be finals anyway it should be about a premiership. Under Gallagher we built a team just to play finals but whether we play finals or not nobody in their right mind would think this list is close to a premiership anyway. We’ve done well so far but these good starts to the year keep giving us false hope.

 

[Saintbloke]

Interesting to hear Lyon speaking about our midfield standing still at one easy clearance that Neale got- I was surprised at the lack of energy at that bounce. This has been a regular thing though- our guys don't start running until the ball is almost at ground level from a tap, whereas the good midfielders are watching the ball off the hand and are running full pace past the tap to get possession- it was really obvious against the Hawks and hasn't really improved. We are also letting the opposition get between us and the ball around stoppages too easy. So much work for the coach to do with centre bounces and clearances. I think Lyon might lose a bit of the 2023 nice guy persona this week in preparation for the WCE game

 

[bergholt]

……..and here we are on Monday morning still in 5th spot on the ladder and with no fines or suspensions from the match.

True but it's a soft 5th. If by some mischance we lose to the Eagles (surely not) we could be 8th or 9th after next round.

 

[gringo2011]

Ultimately the goal shouldn’t be finals anyway it should be about a premiership. Under Gallagher we built a team just to play finals but whether we play finals or not nobody in their right mind would think this list is close to a premiership anyway. We’ve done well so far but these good starts to the year keep giving us false hope.

Injury has kicked us in the balls every year for the last 3 seasons. As soon as depth is exposed we look like we struggle to keep up. Starting the season with a big injury list and having to play kids is an incredible advantage long term. We've fast tracked the development of a whole bunch of kids that probably would have had fewer games if we had the option of starting with a full list. Collingwood had the same issue in Bucks last year. So much depth was added by exposing kids who ended up as upgrades.

Nas, Owens, Windhager, Byrnes, Stocker, Phillipou, Caminiti and Sharman have all added games that would have been hard to gift if a full line up was available.

It hurts now but it might have given us a huge boost long term. We need midfield quality and depth added and we'd look a different side.

 

[gringo2011]

True but it's a soft 5th. If by some mischance we lose to the Eagles (surely not) we could be 8th or 9th after next round.

If we lose to the Eagles it's probably a good sign that we aren't ready for finals. We definitely look like we are barely holding on at the moment. Last year felt like a psychological collapse and like it might be the mental side not holding up. This year it looks like injury and a youth brigade starting to slow down are more likely causes.

 

[gringo2011]

Interesting to hear Lyon speaking about our midfield standing still at one easy clearance that Neale got- I was surprised at the lack of energy at that bounce. This has been a regular thing though- our guys don't start running until the ball is almost at ground level from a tap, whereas the good midfielders are watching the ball off the hand and are running full pace past the tap to get possession- it was really obvious against the Hawks and hasn't really improved. We are also letting the opposition get between us and the ball around stoppages too easy. So much work for the coach to do with centre bounces and clearances. I think Lyon might lose a bit of the 2023 nice guy persona this week in preparation for the WCE game

Lyon seems to like to play in a holding pattern for a lot of the match then put the foot down. Only the car seems to flood when you put the foot down at the moment. Pretty sure that was what the Pies did last year as well. Try to keep energy for late in the game and fly past when the other side starts to run out of gas.

The problem with it is that you can lose motivation when the results don't come from it. Playing a locked up 2 goal half of footy isn't an exercise in fun. Next week I'd tell them to ski the shackles off and plant the foot and rediscover the fun of playing footy to refresh them.

 

[SteeleSaints]

As the article questioned where has the perpetual motion and dare gone from earlier in the year? Its basically the same team but they have become a shadow of their past selves. As others have mentioned above our midfield are far too slow to move and its like they dont dare attempt to read the ball off the ruckmans hands. That flows through to the entire side they have become reactionary, rather than leading their opponents to the ball they feel safer attempting to stop them once they win the ball.

I would rather lose by 10 goals attempting to play positive footy and getting back to the game they were playing earlier in the year. Dare to win Sainters the entire club has become introverted AGAIN.

I still think we will most likely play finals, but at the moment we are treading water and going no where fast. Unless there is a significant change in form, the only real positive out of the year will be getting games into the younger players. After all the excitement of the early season games, the year will look like Lyon has acheived no more with the list than Ratten had. The only difference being the much easier draw we have had this year, after we might fall into the finals?

 

[Saints TV]

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[hayes]

Injury has kicked us in the balls every year for the last 3 seasons. As soon as depth is exposed we look like we struggle to keep up. Starting the season with a big injury list and having to play kids is an incredible advantage long term. We've fast tracked the development of a whole bunch of kids that probably would have had fewer games if we had the option of starting with a full list. Collingwood had the same issue in Bucks last year. So much depth was added by exposing kids who ended up as upgrades.

Nas, Owens, Windhager, Byrnes, Stocker, Phillipou, Caminiti and Sharman have all added games that would have been hard to gift if a full line up was available.

It hurts now but it might have given us a huge boost long term. We need midfield quality and depth added and we'd look a different side.

I don’t think we can blame injuries when our best form was when we had the most injuries. Every team has injuries anyway and with a new coach and the same problems we’ve run out of excuses. We need high draft picks for midfielders otherwise we’ll never get out of mid table.

 

[puppy_dog7]

If we lose to the Eagles it's probably a good sign that we aren't ready for finals. We definitely look like we are barely holding on at the moment. Last year felt like a psychological collapse and like it might be the mental side not holding up. This year it looks like injury and a youth brigade starting to slow down are more likely causes.

If we lose to Eagles not only are we not good enough to make finals, but there should be alarm bells going off everywhere.

They are historically bad, aand not just bad, terrible!

they've got to be the worst, most uncompetitive side i've seen in my lifetime. Even worse than GWS when they entered the comp, because they at least had some gun kids and the good performance every now and then. WC are just ****ed!

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Injury has kicked us in the balls every year for the last 3 seasons. As soon as depth is exposed we look like we struggle to keep up. Starting the season with a big injury list and having to play kids is an incredible advantage long term. We've fast tracked the development of a whole bunch of kids that probably would have had fewer games if we had the option of starting with a full list. Collingwood had the same issue in Bucks last year. So much depth was added by exposing kids who ended up as upgrades.

Nas, Owens, Windhager, Byrnes, Stocker, Phillipou, Caminiti and Sharman have all added games that would have been hard to gift if a full line up was available.

It hurts now but it might have given us a huge boost long term. We need midfield quality and depth added and we'd look a different side.

Getting finals while developing the kids is I feel the goal for this year.

I feel NAS and Owens will shine in a finals match

 

[SteeleSaints]

Getting finals while developing the kids is I feel the goal for this year.

I feel NAS and Owens will shine in a finals match

Having a side fall into the finals not having beaten another top 8 side in the lead in, leaves a real bad taste in my mouth, If we cant regain the early season form, I would rather see us play players like Heath, Adams, Van Es, Keeler, Hotton and give them a taste of AFL footy and launch into 2024. Give players like Billings & Bytel a number of games to increase their trade potential at seasons end.

Start planning for 2024.

 

[Remboy]

……..and here we are on Monday morning still in 5th spot on the ladder and with no fines or suspensions from the match.

And no injuries. If I was a pommie cricketer I'd be saying it feels like we won.

 

[gringo2011]

I don’t think we can blame injuries when our best form was when we had the most injuries. Every team has injuries anyway and with a new coach and the same problems we’ve run out of excuses. We need high draft picks for midfielders otherwise we’ll never get out of mid table.

The injury list has hit the most vulnerable part of the list though now. Our midfield is decimated. We have Crouch playing to capacity at the moment. Even on the wings Hill is the only one playing to capacity and the lack of extractors shows up how lightweight Marshall looks as tap ruck.

Forwards are easier to cover because you can cobble something together. Lose a lot or players through the middle of the ground and it's like having a car with a slipping clutch.

At the start of the year we had Seb Ross, Steele, Crouch all firing and guys like Byrnes were getting 27 touches in game one. Wood looked like the best wing in the league and Hill was back to his best. Even Gresham was better playing part-time mid but mostly small forward. There would be no other club in the league with a one person midfield and Crouch is more an honest toiler than a star at that. We drag Sinclair up but then our backline gets exposed.

I feel like we are playing really well considering but until we reinvent that midfield we are going to struggle.

 

[longtimesaint]

Having a side fall into the finals not having beaten another top 8 side in the lead in, leaves a real bad taste in my mouth, If we cant regain the early season form, I would rather see us play players like Heath, Adams, Van Es, Keeler, Hotton and give them a taste of AFL footy and launch into 2024. Give players like Billings & Bytel a number of games to increase their trade potential at seasons end.

Start planning for 2024.

We have beaten Bulldogs and Essendon who are 7th and 8th

 

[Klaatu]

We have beaten Bulldogs and Essendon who are 7th and 8th

& lost to Collingwood by 6 points & PA by 10 points stills loss but not doom & gloom.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[SteeleSaints]

We have beaten Bulldogs and Essendon who are 7th and 8th

Yes we have and been competitive on others. But I was suggesting the remainder of the season in particular our last 3 games against Richmond, Geelong & Brisbane (home).

 

[gringo2011]

Yes we have and been competitive on others. But I was suggesting the remainder of the season in particular our last 3 games against Richmond, Geelong & Brisbane (home).

Probably need 4 to 5 wins to play finals. Three we should win unless we completely fall apart, need to beat one or two of Suns, Blues or Tigers. Melbourne and Geelong are hardly reliable at the moment either.

WCE-win
Melbourne- loss
Suns- 50/50
North -Win
Hawks-win
Carlton- 50/50
Richmond-50/50
Geelong- loss
Lions -Loss

To me we need to get the midfield back to the competitive unit it was at the start of the year. If we can't get them back on track we won't even get close.

 

[RWBlyf]

The hard calls St Kilda might need to make to genuinely contend

Kingy has floated one name in particular.

www.sen.com.au

 

[hayes]

King is spot on IMO.

 

[beside the seaside]

Trading Marshall would be disastrous. Not going to happen anyway as he just signed a long term contract.