Training 2023 Training - reports, pics etc

[thylacine60]

Yes. but no.

that's easy for you not to say....

 

[Beyond Blue]

If mots has a calf the sweet addition of honey may be just what is needed

IMO he didn’t do nearly enough in those 2 scratch matches to convince me he can impact the game with and without the ball enough to be a presence at this level.

Opposition half backs like Rioli, Vlastin, Broad etc will show him scant regard and look to run off him to provide attacking options and/or zone off him to help deny space to the likes of H, Charlie and SOS.

But now because of injuries we will have to do one of the following:
- play Honey on the back of underwhelming form
- rush Durdin back from injury
- play someone like Carroll or Ed out of position as cover

Hardly ideal IMO.

 

[thylacine60]

"Ideal" is a full list of hard-trained, ready to go players. Choices, options, depth, "game plan" contingencies. No club gets "ideal".

 

[Beyond Blue]

"Ideal" is a full list of hard-trained, ready to go players. Choices, options, depth, "game plan" contingencies. No club gets "ideal".

The problem is Thy it’s very rarely close to ideal at Carlton.

Over the course of the entire season last year we had one of the worst 5 injury lists in the league.

I reckon we would have close to the worst for 2021 as well.

At the start of this season we already have the equal worst injury list.

 

[thylacine60]

could be a lot worse - could be a lot better

 

[SOS Rules]

IMO he didn’t do nearly enough in those 2 scratch matches to convince me he can impact the game with and without the ball enough to be a presence at this level.

Opposition half backs like Rioli, Vlastin, Broad etc will show him scant regard and look to run off him to provide attacking options and/or zone off him to help deny space to the likes of H, Charlie and SOS.

But now because of injuries we will have to do one of the following:
- play Honey on the back of underwhelming form
- rush Durdin back from injury
- play someone like Carroll or Ed out of position as cover

Hardly ideal IMO.

How in the know is Red Man? I think he said that Corey is good to go. He'll have a decent level of fitness given he's only had this injury in the last couple of weeks. Like what he brings.

Assuming Mots does not get up, I think I'd rather have Honey than Owies but he must get involved in the play a lot more and look to restrict their rebound defenders without ball in hand. Just has the x factor that Matt lacks.

 

[Jeremias]

How in the know is Red Man? I think he said that Corey is good to go. He'll have a decent level of fitness given he's only had this injury in the last couple of weeks. Like what he brings.

Assuming Mots does not get up, I think I'd rather have Honey than Owies but he must get involved in the play a lot more and look to restrict their rebound defenders without ball in hand. Just has the x factor that Matt lacks.

He's not. Grain of salt and all that.

 

[SOS Rules]

He's not. Grain of salt and all that.

Fair enough. Well, let's hope that Corey is good to go. He should be close.

 

[Laphroaig]

May wanna check the math on that.

222 possies from 14 starts is a little under 16 a game.

Going back to the stats though, cause it's a reasonable discussion to have:

Lachie O – 17.74 disposals a game, 0.26 goals, 1.42 tackles, 3.47 contested possessions and 1.11 1%ers. Avg Disposal Efficiency 68.1
Cotts – 14.83 disps, 0.5 goals, 1.78 tackles, 4.72 contested possessions and 0.72 1%ers. Avg Disposal Efficiency 77.5

Disposals - LOB slightly ahead. Not a heap in it.
Goals - Cottrell slight ahead. Difference being one goal every fourth game, maybe 5 goals for the season. Can probably chalk it up to role though, with Cotters spending some minutes as a defensive forward.
Tackles/1%ers - reckon these cancel out with each player being slightly ahead in one. Difference is minimal in either case though, one per 3 games.
Contested possessions - Cottrell slightly ahead. Unsurprising, but ultimately not a major consideration for a wing spot.
Disposal efficiency - Cottrell ahead. Bears consideration, but I think this probably comes down to role and instructions (also see kick/handball ratio below).

Think a few stats have been selectively missed though.

Marks - LOB ahead by more than one a game (5.2 vs 3.9). Despite being less gifted aerially. Indicates he makes good position a little more often and is looked for by teammates.
Kick/handball ratio - LOB well ahead (12:5 vs. 8:6). Reckon you'll find that this explains the disposal efficiency stat.
Behinds - LOB ahead. Not a good thing as such, but combined with the goals it shows LOB was actually getting more shots on goal on a per game basis despite Cottrell spending time forward. Read this as Cotters being a better finisher, but neither getting enough opportunity to make it particularly relevant.
Metres gained - LOB well ahead (364m vs 235m). Once again, explained by the kick/handball ratio.


Personally, I'd have LOB ahead of Cotters most days. But I'd also be relatively confident of Cotters giving something close to similar output if LOB missed and he had to step in. It's not a massive gulf between them, but it's enough to make the selection choice pretty clear.

You missed the key testicle stat.

Cottrell, two huge ones. LOB, zero.

O' Brien has a beautiful leg. But he is sub standard in the contest. And not getting noticably better.

FInal analysis, neither is eqipped to play in a contending team. But if forced to choose I'd take the one who'd run through brick walls over the one who panics over shadows.

I think the kid will get the gig, at least at first.

 

[Lace_Out]

If I had to choose between Lob & Cotrell, it's Cotters all the way.

Harder at the contest and can wun his own footy.

The other thing he has shown is the ability to improve. Was set for a big year.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[Matty411]

I don't get the LOB hate these days but it doesn't matter. Because a kid called Ollie Hollands will be better than both very quickly.

 

[ferrisb]

I don't get the LOB hate these days but it doesn't matter. Because a kid called Ollie Hollands will be better than both very quickly.

I've been a LOB doubter since very early on.

But I thought he improved noticeably last year and is said to be in ripping nick over the off season (yeah, yeah, everyone is always training the house down).

Reckon he's got one last chance (and a two-year extension) to prove he is good enough.

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

I don't get the LOB hate these days but it doesn't matter. Because a kid called Ollie Hollands will be better than both very quickly.

Lachie showed real improvement last year, first year under VTB of course. Reckon he will take another step this season, liked his pre-season game vs the pies. Whereas previous seasons the wings have been a real weakness for us, I think they will now become a strength. Acres will be pivotal on his wing and should get some CBA's, he is a really good size.
Dutchy may start off in the VFL, he is very slight. Could see him putting lots of pressure on LOB though through consistency of performance. Maybe Vossy will find a way to play all three, especially as two-way running late in the final quarters has become very important.

 

[Red Bull]

In what we’ve seen of Hollands along with his footy iq and running ability, there’s another important factor that is crucial in big games and September which won’t be lost on Voss.
He doesn’t panic.
Along with Acres, Hollands starts on a wing for mine and really looking forward to watching his career grow …

 

[Love the Drake]

Bolton and their running backs (baker and Rioli) and medium backs ( Vlaustin/Broad) are my main concern.

Whereas our midfielders and tall forwards will really concern them.

Who locks down on Bolton?

Which of our small forwards stand up.

JSOS and Martin and to a lesser extent TDK have to become dangerous options, otherwise their opponents play off them and intercept/double team H and Charlie.

Nankervis will also fill the hole in our forward line so can’t just bomb it long to our talls. Have to hit up other players.

 

[BlueTongue]

I've been a LOB doubter since very early on.

But I thought he improved noticeably last year and is said to be in ripping nick over the off season (yeah, yeah, everyone is always training the house down).

Reckon he's got one last chance (and a two-year extension) to prove he is good enough.

Yeah I thought so too. Far less turnovers (still a few) also. Doesn't deserve whipping boy status anymore. Lots of players buying in and trying hard now.
...SO, my focus now turns to Jack Martin

 

[charred_fate]

Aside from the shoulder strapping, Cunners looks mint - Judd like.

He’s moving well. Don’t reckon he’ll be too far away.

 

[thylacine60]

I've been a LOB doubter since very early on.

But I thought he improved noticeably last year and is said to be in ripping nick over the off season (yeah, yeah, everyone is always training the house down).

Reckon he's got one last chance (and a two-year extension) to prove he is good enough.

Parish

 

[SOS Rules]

Aside from the shoulder strapping, Cunners looks mint - Judd like.

He’s moving well. Don’t reckon he’ll be too far away.

Was this at training last week?

 

[charred_fate]

Was this at training last week?

Nah, now

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Nah, now

I wonder if he’s a sneaky chance Thursday??

 

[ferrisb]

Parish

I've got two problems with players' development being compared to Parish.

1) IMO only a small minority of players make a giant leap in their careers after 5 seasons. I'll be generous and say 25%. That means 75% don't. So relying on / hoping for that is likely to lead to disappointment.

2) Parish's zero to hero story is more nuanced than the overnight transformation it's made out to be. Firstly, he averaged 20 possessions in his first season, so was never really the initial dud that ppl seem to think. Secondly, he was never played predominantly in the middle in his early seasons. He was (broadly) used like we use Fisher. His output flourished when put properly into the midfield. Which shouldn't be such a surprise.

TLDR - Parish was played out of position for much of his career. And while a development leap like his is possible, it's not probable.

 

[thylacine60]

I've got two problems with players' development being compared to Parish.

1) IMO only a small minority of players make a giant leap in their careers after 5 seasons. I'll be generous and say 25%. That means 75% don't. So relying on / hoping for that is likely to lead to disappointment.

2) Parish's zero to hero story is more nuanced than the overnight transformation it's made out to be. Firstly, he averaged 20 possessions in his first season, so was never really the initial dud that ppl seem to think. Secondly, he was never played predominantly in the middle in his early seasons. He was (broadly) used like we use Fisher. His output flourished when put properly into the midfield. Which shouldn't be such a surprise.

TLDR - Parish was played out of position for much of his career. And while a development leap like his is possible, it's not probable.

I meant what parish do you go to church in? Fmd.....

 

[Juddrockz]

Bolton and their running backs (baker and Rioli) and medium backs ( Vlaustin/Broad) are my main concern.

Whereas our midfielders and tall forwards will really concern them.

Who locks down on Bolton?

Which of our small forwards stand up.

JSOS and Martin and to a lesser extent TDK have to become dangerous options, otherwise their opponents play off them and intercept/double team H and Charlie.

Nankervis will also fill the hole in our forward line so can’t just bomb it long to our talls. Have to hit up other players.

I agree,Bolton is the danger man. Nankervis isnt a threat in the forward line,Harry an Charlie have the speed up their sleeve,Nank is a plodder. He's the least of our worries.

 

[thylacine60]

Bolton and their running backs (baker and Rioli) and medium backs ( Vlaustin/Broad) are my main concern.

Whereas our midfielders and tall forwards will really concern them.

Who locks down on Bolton?

Which of our small forwards stand up.

JSOS and Martin and to a lesser extent TDK have to become dangerous options, otherwise their opponents play off them and intercept/double team H and Charlie.

Nankervis will also fill the hole in our forward line so can’t just bomb it long to our talls. Have to hit up other players.

Running backs?