List Mgmt. 2024 Draft/Trade/FA Thread – Early Draft Poll Added

[Scythe94]

Confirmed outs:

• Angus Brayshaw (Retired)
• Ben Brown (Retired)
• Josh Schache (Delisted)
• Kyah Farris-White (Delisted)

Confirmed ins:

 

[Crusty Demon]

This does kinda say like you're saying a mess mate: "I think the big problem securing a high quality forward now is that we're clearly on the decline. Other clubs look way more attractive. We still don't have a home base FFS. We have a coaching panel who can't make a forwardline functional."

I get the frustration with the recruiting over the last few years, but reality is Lamb's hands were pretty tied in that regard given the list we have/had, the high ladder finishes, and then a bit of bad luck with things like Smith, Brayshaw and Oliver. Plus, important to consider we've managed to bring through some decent young talent in that time, which makes me disagree that we are on a big decline.

As I've mentioned above though, I'm not sure why some seem to think if we land a good key forward then we can't do anything else? We potentially have a lot more freedom this year in terms of salary cap and draft collateral pending player trades so there's no reason why we can't address multiple issues.

Yeah, but again, I never used the words we are a mess. Every club has holes and issues. We have some very nice pieces to work with. Coaches inability to improve scoring is a concern. Our defensive structure has been very solid. Our midfield has started to show cracks and the loss of depth and the lack of improvement in some of the younger guys means we are on the decline. That doesn't equate to being a complete mess.

That's why I'm saying if we are smart with our picks and trading, we CAN be back on the incline in a couple of seasons. If we were a complete mess, we'd be in for 7 years of pain. This is why I think the player manager is very important next couple of seasons. Do i have the trust in Tim Lamb? No. He's been unable to improve our list at all while in the premiership window which has been really disappointing. If we won another flag with this list, then I'm guessing most on here wouldn't be so harsh on coaches/list manager. But we haven't which means coaches and list managers and players come under scrutiny. All 3 groups have some blame. Happy to throw Goody under the bus, but i feel Lamb needs to go under with him.

 

[Crusty Demon]

I’m not overly keen on Phillips. He’s only really being discussed as he was a pick 3. Don’t mind the fact he hasn’t done anything. Clearly was rated highly in his draft. But there’s not many if any who have gone that high and gone on to another club to come good. Sounds like he’ll be another Billings type list clogger.

Yeah, that's a tough one. He really hasn't shown anything at senior level to suggest he'll be any good. Clearly a quality junior. Most clubs will feel confident in turning him around, but you're right, not many do when showing what he's shown. His age and ability to play midfield is attractive to us, but I wouldn't be throwing much at him. Wouldn't take much for him to move on i reckon. Kangas bat deep in that midfield now. LDU is more attractive IMO. Could cost too much to get him, but he'd be one I'd be pushing for.

 

[markm106]

Yeah, that's a tough one. He really hasn't shown anything at senior level to suggest he'll be any good. Clearly a quality junior. Most clubs will feel confident in turning him around, but you're right, not many do when showing what he's shown. His age and ability to play midfield is attractive to us, but I wouldn't be throwing much at him. Wouldn't take much for him to move on i reckon. Kangas bat deep in that midfield now. LDU is more attractive IMO. Could cost too much to get him, but he'd be one I'd be pushing for.

Yeah I think north will probably be pushing him out the door. I mean he probably gets done for a 3rd rounder or there abouts. Think Paddy Dow. Basically swaps of nothing picks got it done.

 

[Lord Nev]

Yeah, but again, I never used the words we are a mess. Every club has holes and issues. We have some very nice pieces to work with. Coaches inability to improve scoring is a concern. Our defensive structure has been very solid. Our midfield has started to show cracks and the loss of depth and the lack of improvement in some of the younger guys means we are on the decline. That doesn't equate to being a complete mess.

Ok mate. But you can see how saying we're on the decline, have no home and our coaches are bad gives the impression you think we're a mess though yeah? Like it's a fair whack across the board there. Now we're adding that our midfield is struggling and our development is bad according to you, but you don't think that justifies that impression?

That's why I'm saying if we are smart with our picks and trading, we CAN be back on the incline in a couple of seasons. If we were a complete mess, we'd be in for 7 years of pain. This is why I think the player manager is very important next couple of seasons. Do i have the trust in Tim Lamb? No. He's been unable to improve our list at all while in the premiership window which has been really disappointing. If we won another flag with this list, then I'm guessing most on here wouldn't be so harsh on coaches/list manager. But we haven't which means coaches and list managers and players come under scrutiny. All 3 groups have some blame. Happy to throw Goody under the bus, but i feel Lamb needs to go under with him.

I find it strange that you say we've been in the premiership window due to our list and give Lamb no credit for that, but then slam him for not improving our list while we're in that premiership window? Just doesn't make sense to me. Improving a premiership list isn't easy, and I agree there's been some misses, but it can't be all blame for the misses and no credit for the hits.

Also find it strange you say the issues are the lack of a home base, the coaches, the list manager, the poor development, but then also say we can improve in the next few years when I don't think anything is changing a lot in those areas. Doesn't add up for mine mate.

 

[ABray10]

If we want to trade in a key forward from another club then we are looking at the wrong end of the ground. Chase someone like Aliir Aliir

21

Aliir Aliir

Age

30

Ht

194cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.2

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

5.9

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

240.9

4star

D

11.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

D

13.0

4star

K

6.4

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

158.4

3star

to play forward, our mids have years of experience hitting him on the chest.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Ok mate. But you can see how saying we're on the decline, have no home and our coaches are bad gives the impression you think we're a mess though yeah? Like it's a fair whack across the board there. Now we're adding that our midfield is struggling and our development is bad according to you, but you don't think that justifies that impression?



I find it strange that you say we've been in the premiership window due to our list and give Lamb no credit for that, but then slam him for not improving our list while we're in that premiership window? Just doesn't make sense to me. Improving a premiership list isn't easy, and I agree there's been some misses, but it can't be all blame for the misses and no credit for the hits.

Also find it strange you say the issues are the lack of a home base, the coaches, the list manager, the poor development, but then also say we can improve in the next few years when I don't think anything is changing a lot in those areas. Doesn't add up for mine mate.

So Lamb came onboard as List manager end of 2019? Todd Viney did the Lever and May recruitment. Pretty sure he did the Langdon recruitment before he left as well. So what has Lamb actually done? Paid 2 years too many to get Ben Brown onboard? If you can enlighten me as to what he's done that has really benefitted this team during his time as List manager, then I'll happily ease up on the bloke. To me, Todd Viney and Jason Taylor are the two behind building our premiership list. Lamb just happened to be there when we finally won it. My opinion(and you can see it differently, that's fine) is that he's done and is doing a poor job with this list.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Yeah I think north will probably be pushing him out the door. I mean he probably gets done for a 3rd rounder or there abouts. Think Paddy Dow. Basically swaps of nothing picks got it done.

Worth a chance? I mean a 3rd rounder isn't breaking the bank, but is he likely to be anything more than a decent VFL player?

 

[Demon Attack]

Phillips was the COVID draft, he is just a spud who got overrated.

 

[Lord Nev]

So Lamb came onboard as List manager end of 2019? Todd Viney did the Lever and May recruitment. Pretty sure he did the Langdon recruitment before he left as well. So what has Lamb actually done? Paid 2 years too many to get Ben Brown onboard? If you can enlighten me as to what he's done that has really benefitted this team during his time as List manager, then I'll happily ease up on the bloke. To me, Todd Viney and Jason Taylor are the two behind building our premiership list. Lamb just happened to be there when we finally won it. My opinion(and you can see it differently, that's fine) is that he's done and is doing a poor job with this list.

Lamb has been at the club since 2012, was a recruiter first and then put in charge of things in time to oversee the May and Lever trades, and the trades that got us a great 2019 draft haul.

"Lamb’s aggressive trading style has delivered repeated wins for Melbourne, from Steven May to Jake Lever, plus the deal with North Melbourne that allowed them to choose Kysaiah Pickett."

Former tradie behind Dees’ success

Also, Todd Viney didn't handle the May recruitment, roles changes at the start of 2018:

MELBOURNE list chief Todd Viney will move into a new off-field role this year as part of a rejig of the Demons’ football department.

The Herald Sun can reveal Viney will step into a football operations position to help support the coaching, fitness and medical staff and players.

Recruiter Tim Lamb will take over key list management duties such as contracts and total player payment management as Melbourne looks to secure its first finals appearance in 12 years.

The move is effective immediately, although Viney is expected to help support Lamb in the new position throughout the year.

Todd Viney to move from list management to football operations role with Melbourne

Viney also left before we got Langdon, and he wasn't in charge of the list that year anyway.

Viney gains added responsibilities

Ben Brown, although rubbish now, was a key ingredient to us winning a flag in 2021. I'm more than willing to give him an extra year or two for that and if you're honest with yourself if that was the cost for us to win a flag you'd pay it too.

Reality is, Todd Viney was in charge when we pulled off trades like Dawes, Brynes, Rodan, Barry, Michie, oversaw the Tyson/Salem for Kelly trade, also guns like Lumumba, Bugg, Kennedy and Pat McKenna... Let's not rewrite history here.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Lamb has been at the club since 2012, was a recruiter first and then put in charge of things in time to oversee the May and Lever trades, and the trades that got us a great 2019 draft haul.

"Lamb’s aggressive trading style has delivered repeated wins for Melbourne, from Steven May to Jake Lever, plus the deal with North Melbourne that allowed them to choose Kysaiah Pickett."

Former tradie behind Dees’ success

Also, Todd Viney didn't handle the May recruitment, roles changes at the start of 2018:

MELBOURNE list chief Todd Viney will move into a new off-field role this year as part of a rejig of the Demons’ football department.

The Herald Sun can reveal Viney will step into a football operations position to help support the coaching, fitness and medical staff and players.

Recruiter Tim Lamb will take over key list management duties such as contracts and total player payment management as Melbourne looks to secure its first finals appearance in 12 years.

The move is effective immediately, although Viney is expected to help support Lamb in the new position throughout the year.

Todd Viney to move from list management to football operations role with Melbourne

Viney also left before we got Langdon, and he wasn't in charge of the list that year anyway.

Viney gains added responsibilities

Ben Brown, although rubbish now, was a key ingredient to us winning a flag in 2021. I'm more than willing to give him an extra year or two for that and if you're honest with yourself if that was the cost for us to win a flag you'd pay it too.

Reality is, Todd Viney was in charge when we pulled off trades like Dawes, Brynes, Rodan, Barry, Michie, oversaw the Tyson/Salem for Kelly trade, also guns like Lumumba, Bugg, Kennedy and Pat McKenna... Let's not rewrite history here.

You could pick a list of rubbish recruits from every list manager from every club. Viney along with Taylor are the one's who built the premiership list, not Lamb.

 

[Lord Nev]

You could pick a list of rubbish recruits from every list manager from every club. Viney along with Taylor are the one's who built the premiership list, not Lamb.

Mate, I literally just provided you with facts that say that's not a correct statement.

I should know better than to expect any of us to not just double down in the face of factual information though I guess, so that's on me.

 

[Demon Attack]

Yeah complaining about Brown is ridiculous. I'd have given him ten years for a flag. Do that deal again every day of the week.

Oliver is a bad deal since they knew he was loose off field. Brayshaw was a bad deal. Goodwin horrific deal.

 

[Lord Nev]

Yeah complaining about Brown is ridiculous. I'd have given him ten years for a flag. Do that deal again every day of the week.

Oliver is a bad deal since they knew he was loose off field. Brayshaw was a bad deal. Goodwin horrific deal.

Brayshaw one is complicated though. The difference between him being fine and him having to retire came in between the Maynard incident and when he called it quits. He had a brain scan after that last concussion and it was fine, he was looking all good to continue on, but then he had another one a couple of weeks before he quit and things had change massively, huge number of black spots had appeared, it was completely unexpected.

It can also be tricky to know how they structured the deal - Some of these long deals might be a gamble based on front or back loading which helps us keep other players.

 

[Mich0]

Jeez Calsher Dear goes alright. Shame Lamb didn’t rate anyone after the first round and pissed away 2 second rounders.

Wouldn’t looked nice next to JvR up forward for the next decade.

 

[Headless]

Jeez Calsher Dear goes alright. Shame Lamb didn’t rate anyone after the first round and pissed away 2 second rounders.

Wouldn’t looked nice next to JvR up forward for the next decade.

I assume satire?

Father-son selection.

 

[Headless]

Can't believe we didn't select Sam Darcy.

 

[Scythe94]

Jeez Calsher Dear goes alright. Shame Lamb didn’t rate anyone after the first round and pissed away 2 second rounders.

Wouldn’t looked nice next to JvR up forward for the next decade.

My word it's hard to take you seriously, lol.

 

[Scythe94]

Can't believe we didn't select Sam Darcy.

Daicos would've been pretty nice too

 

[booshboy]

I'm definitely not saying its all Lambs fault. I feel we've had a list capable of competing for a flag. But we should have had better pieces that would have made another flag more possible. What Lamb has brought in hasn't been near good enough quite frankly. Can blame coaches all we want, and they do deserve a bash, but Hunter, Schache, McAdam, Billings, Fullerton and the Grundy debacle hasn't given the coaches much chance to improve the team.

I'm not suggesting Lamb is beyond criticism, but he's just one part of a club that has been run on arrogance, complacency & hubris since we won the flag. The whole club thought all the pieces were in place and we could just win more flags without evolving the game plan or improving the list. As I say Lamb isnt blameless but my finger is pointed at Roffey, Pert, Goodwin & Richo before him.

 

[booshboy]

Gary Ablett Jnr slipped to pick 40 while Tim Lamb did NOTHING!!!!

 

[The Dr]

The own goals from certain posters are mind boggling


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[Mich0]

Sorry all, didn’t realise the rules had changed preventing bids on father sons by other clubs.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I know the reasons around why he dropped but Schoenmaker looked good last night for the Saints. Hes one late pick you absolutely could see hitting.

 

[The Dr]

Geez the swans are laughing at the value they got for Grundy. Ideal fit for them, cost stuff all as a trade and just about playing career best footy.


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[Crusty Demon]

Geez the swans are laughing at the value they got for Grundy. Ideal fit for them, cost stuff all as a trade and just about playing career best footy.


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I don't think we should have held onto him though. We shouldn't have got him in the first place. Swans are head and shoulders above every side this year. Can they overcome the MCG though when it matters? Could be their only issue if they run into a Pies or Blues side.