List Mgmt. 2024 Father Son watch MKIII. Operation Ashcroft jnr. Featuring various academy boys.

[Jivlain]

 

[Grasshopper17]

4 of us into 3 tables.
Very likely.

They seriously should all just share with each other the times and login details for each of the sessions (assuming it's done electronically) and just gatecrash.

 

[Toffee Lion]

4 of us into 3 tables.
Very likely.

Getting some major primary school vibes from all this.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Lifted from the Suns board, from a HS article.

I would agree with this if the NGA criteria wasn’t so laughable

 

[mpal6]

Could be a smart management decision to split up the teams. Split up the Northern teams so they can't form a stance for example.

Amateur hour. You can transcribe a meeting and share the whole thing to a group in no time.

Unless you're going to hold all meetings in parallel, place them all in signal jammed rooms as well as demand on the spot agreements from everyone, I don't see the point in all this fluff.

 

[McIvor]

I’ve followed AFL for a while and my family even longer and all of us can’t remember a time that AFL management was this shambolic, from the likes of Jackson, Demetriou and McLachlan although Ross Oakley was singled out. This new executive thinks it is actually smarter than it is and as Roo said, they’re treating the football public like utter morons at least that’s how they came across. It’s amazing to think that they think it is even acceptable to act the way they are.

 

[martinson]

I’ve followed AFL for a while and my family even longer and all of us can’t remember a time that AFL management was this shambolic, from the likes of Jackson, Demetriou and McLachlan although Ross Oakley was singled out. This new executive thinks it is actually smarter than it is and as Roo said, they’re treating the football public like utter morons at least that’s how they came across. It’s amazing to think that they think it is even acceptable to act the way they are.

I thought you were just going off when you had a little rant about it recently but what's come out from headquarters the last 3 days makes me think you were on the money all along.

Fancy telling the world you're breaking up the sessions into 3 separate groups.

Why ????? Completely open to ridicule before you start on the imponderables.

Seems like a lot of nutty MBA course non practical kite flying going on.

I wonder if they're just incompetent.

 

[briztoon]

I would agree with this if the NGA criteria wasn’t so laughable

I don't believe the criteria is so laughable.

AFL isn't the sport of choice for most immigrant families. It's normally soccer, union (for all the south african immigrants in WA) or basketball.

It's not like every Vic club had a top 5 NGA kid in every draft.

Yes, there's going to be 2 or 3 Victorian based NGA kids in every years first round. Possibly even more out of WA.

However the Suns are on track to blitz anything any one single NGA club could have possibly achieved, over a 3 year period.

The AFL stil lists each clubs NGA prospects mid season, so we can see which kids the Vic cubs are missing out on, because they went top 40.

Lance Collard (West Coast) went pick 28 to St Kilda (and he's a known go home risk).
Tew Jiath (Hawthorn) went pick 37 to Collingwood.
Luamon Lual (Bulldogs) went pick 39 to Essendon.


Fair chance our academy outperforms any Vic clubs NGA academy over the next 3 or 4 years.


The big headlines are largely around happenstance, because Collingwood happened to get a decent NGA kid so close to Daicos, Bulldogs got a top NGA kid right before a top father son, and we're getting a small cluster of highly rated father sons just at the same time as our academy starts producing some decent kids.

 

[Elixuh]

Lol Jon Ralph is dog whistling on twitter

 

[MSB ROYS]

Seems like a lot of nutty MBA course non practical kite flying going on.

I wonder if they're just incompetent.

If you need an MBA consultant, please use me to help fly a kite host a planning meeting, audit and secure the supply chain, form a new committee, incorporate an ESG plan, have a long Friday lunch, send a sizeable invoice and then launch a kite!

 

[Happy_Neale]

I don't believe the criteria is so laughable.

AFL isn't the sport of choice for most immigrant families. It's normally soccer, union (for all the south african immigrants in WA) or basketball.

It's not like every Vic club had a top 5 NGA kid in every draft.

Yes, there's going to be 2 or 3 Victorian based NGA kids in every years first round. Possibly even more out of WA.

However the Suns are on track to blitz anything any one single NGA club could have possibly achieved, over a 3 year period.

The AFL stil lists each clubs NGA prospects mid season, so we can see which kids the Vic cubs are missing out on, because they went top 40.

Lance Collard (West Coast) went pick 28 to St Kilda (and he's a known go home risk).
Tew Jiath (Hawthorn) went pick 37 to Collingwood.
Luamon Lual (Bulldogs) went pick 39 to Essendon.


Fair chance our academy outperforms any Vic clubs NGA academy over the next 3 or 4 years.


The big headlines are largely around happenstance, because Collingwood happened to get a decent NGA kid so close to Daicos, Bulldogs got a top NGA kid right before a top father son, and we're getting a small cluster of highly rated father sons just at the same time as our academy starts producing some decent kids.

The pereception is guys like Quaynor were never going to be lost to football, Tarryn Thomas as well. These guys were already playing at a competitive level and were highly rated players that were zoned to an NGA - for what reason?

From a Jake Niall article:

But Collingwood didn’t find Quaynor from obscurity and develop him into a player worthy of being selected in the first round. The Magpies simply discovered that Quaynor – who had played footy most of his life and hailed from Paul Roos’ old club, Beverly Hills – qualified because his father had an African background. NGA players must have African, Asian or Indigenous heritage.

North, too, had next to no input in making Thomas into a player. He was the best player of his age in Tasmania as a 16-year-old; they were just blessed that he fell into their NGA zone.

The same, unfortunately, applies to nearly all of the 15 NGA eligible players. Hawthorn did not develop Irving Mosquito (Indigenous, from Gippsland Power). West Coast did not teach Charlie Cameron’s younger brother Jarrod (Swan Districts) how to play. The Demons didn’t spend hour upon hour with Toby Bedford (Indigenous, from Rosebud) honing his skills.

They were clearly set up to offset the apparent ‘unfair’ advantage the northern academies have but I would guess there would be very few players if any who wouldn’t have already been playing football without the NGA’s in place.

 

[briztoon]

The pereception is guys like Quaynor were never going to be lost to football, Tarryn Thomas as well. These guys were already playing at a competitive level and were highly rated players that were zoned to an NGA - for what reason?

From a Jake Niall article:




They were clearly set up to offset the apparent ‘unfair’ advantage the northern academies have but I would guess there would be very few players if any who wouldn’t have already been playing football without the NGA’s in place.

Similarly, I’ve argued many times, our academy isn’t bringing new players to the game.

All of our academy successes were already playing AFL as juniors.

And we’ve been over this ground before, whether our academy offers better coaching than what the kids receive at QAFL level.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Similarly, I’ve argued many times, our academy isn’t bringing new players to the game.

All of our academy successes were already playing AFL as juniors.

It doesn't necessarily bring new players in but it plays a role in keeping them in the sport.

There's lot's of kids who flit between football in Qld, far moreso than Victoria, where soccer is the only real other option.

I played rugby, aussie rules, hockey, volleyball and water polo growing up. I'm barely athletically qualified to tie my own shoelaces, but I played in the school team that made the Qld high school final and pretty much all of the guys who were district reps or better would pinch-hit in the school league team.

 

[M Malice]

I wonder if they're just incompetent.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Similarly, I’ve argued many times, our academy isn’t bringing new players to the game.

All of our academy successes were already playing AFL as juniors.

And we’ve been over this ground before, whether our academy offers better coaching than what the kids receive at QAFL level.

now that is a rort. Drafting people as academy picks who were already playing AFL

 

[dlanod]

It doesn't necessarily bring new players in but it plays a role in keeping them in the sport.

There's lot's of kids who flit between football in Qld, far moreso than Victoria, where soccer is the only real other option.

I played rugby, aussie rules, hockey, volleyball and water polo growing up. I'm barely athletically qualified to tie my own shoelaces, but I played in the school team that made the Qld high school final and pretty much all of the guys who were district reps or better would pinch-hit in the school league team.

If you look at a lot of the players we took prior to the academies, they often had other sporting backgrounds, e.g. Merrett with volleyball, etc, who came across at some point.

Now it looks like the guys coming through the academy are Aussie Rules first and foremost.

 

[KissKiss]

If you look at a lot of the players we took prior to the academies, they often had other sporting backgrounds, e.g. Merrett with volleyball, etc, who came across at some point.

Now it looks like the guys coming through the academy are Aussie Rules first and foremost.

That sounds like a good thing in the pathway actually being developed enough to support kids coming the whole way through. All the calls of the talent pool being too small to support expansion should be thrilled with how the academies are starting to generate a heap of players.

The best thing that could happen to us, is if the academy is developing too many players for us to draft each year and some of them are then going to other clubs around the country. It both helps even out the comp overall and sets us up better to have potential "come home" trades

 

[Happy_Neale]

Similarly, I’ve argued many times, our academy isn’t bringing new players to the game.

All of our academy successes were already playing AFL as juniors.

And we’ve been over this ground before, whether our academy offers better coaching than what the kids receive at QAFL level.

The main point of the academies isn’t necessarily to bring in players from other sports although that has worked at times with Payne, Heeney and others who likely would not have played AFL without the academies. You can for sure make the case broadly that the academies haven’t increased non-players into players but what they are important for is providing a pathway to the AFL or just competitive level footy, something the traditional states have in spades. There is no need for academies in these areas and anyway creating NGA’s for 10 vic clubs is going to be logistically near on impossible to do fairly anyway.

They also keep guys playing footy through the teens and into senior footy who traditionally get lost to the sport and go play league or stop sports altogether due to lack of pathways forward ie QAFL or nothing…and very few people are getting drafted out of the QAFL. The standard has come a long way in the last 5 years or so but it is simply nowhere near the other state leagues, especially if you play for the handful of lower ranked teams which are miles off the top few at senior level.

I have a bit to do with the QAFL and I can tell you the main frustration for parents and kids in years gone by is there was virtually nowhere to go with it, the academies aren’t perfect but they at least they give these guys a way forward. Is it unfair at times…maybe, maybe not but the growth and development of QLD footy needs to be club in IMO and that requires incentives for them to do so.

 

[McIvor]

The pereception is guys like Quaynor were never going to be lost to football, Tarryn Thomas as well. These guys were already playing at a competitive level and were highly rated players that were zoned to an NGA - for what reason?

From a Jake Niall article:




They were clearly set up to offset the apparent ‘unfair’ advantage the northern academies have but I would guess there would be very few players if any who wouldn’t have already been playing football without the NGA’s in place.

Chris Johnson’s son anyone?

Like he didn’t know what AFL footy was and because dad moved the family back to his old area, qualified for Essendon NGA. I’m all for Vic clubs NGA’s but not for circumstances like Johnson’s son otherwise you may as well call it a ‘zone’.

Also not sure I heard correctly, but isn’t Saints gripe partly to do with developing and then missing out on Mac Andrew given he was in their NGA. I personally could live with NGA’s for all clubs outside northern academies even without the need for those players to slide to outside pick 40 so that clubs like Saints could’ve had Andrew if they paid a fair price.

 

[McIvor]

I thought you were just going off when you had a little rant about it recently but what's come out from headquarters the last 3 days makes me think you were on the money all along.

Fancy telling the world you're breaking up the sessions into 3 separate groups.

Why ????? Completely open to ridicule before you start on the imponderables.

Seems like a lot of nutty MBA course non practical kite flying going on.

I wonder if they're just incompetent.

I’m going with incompetent and as you said trying to incorporate too much MBA crap into something that really isn’t that difficult.

Funny story. A year or so ago, we had a new Head of come into our organisation after replacing someone that had resigned about a year earlier. The team actually did run and ran really well. Anyway, stereotypical new guy comes in with an MBA from a similar company, thought he was top shit, and he literally over managed everything and every meeting had graphs and all sorts of crap and when he was talking to our team, you could see the glazed eyes and eye rolls coming over the group, who are al very accomplished professionals and who could all see through his BS and BS speak. Furthermore, you could tell everyone could not stand this guy and had zero respect for him.

Company then did one of those 360 feedback and our teams feedback couldn’t have been more underwhelming and morale was at an all time low after the CEO was head wobbling prior to Mr MBA’s engagement about how good he’s going to be.

Anyway, Mr MBA one day recently was nowhere to be seen and months later and the team is highly functional again with an internal promotion by someone that has long been within the industry not to mention everyone is happy again, not that some employees would want that.

Not sure what the moral of the story is but stop trying to be too cute and cut the BS because I dare say people within the AFL can see through it too although there are a lot of sucks at HQ; I know one and he’s the biggest yes man you’ll come across who never believes the AFL does any wrong.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The pereception is guys like Quaynor were never going to be lost to football, Tarryn Thomas as well. These guys were already playing at a competitive level and were highly rated players that were zoned to an NGA - for what reason?

From a Jake Niall article:



They were clearly set up to offset the apparent ‘unfair’ advantage the northern academies have but I would guess there would be very few players if any who wouldn’t have already been playing football without the NGA’s in place.

I think there's a benefit to giving extra coaching and development to kids from a community that's previously has very little connection with the game, not so much for keeping them in the system, but for the purpose of developing star ethnic minority players. I honestly believe it's a big deal to ethnic minorities when they see one of their own succeeding at a sport, when it comes to fostering and keeping interest in it. Lin Jong was never a great player, but I'm sure he had a bigger impact on getting Chinese people interested in the game than any other player. Ditto for Majak Daw with African people.

Of course, this doesn't have to translate into priority access, but again the AFL are abrogating their responsibility to grow the game and handing it off to clubs. And if clubs are taking on that responsibility, they need some kind of reward for it.

 

[Nathan Barley]

If they are to limit the number of academy selections in the first forty picks I hope they use a moving average eg. Only being able to take 3 in the top 20 over a 3 year period.

 

[Miller1971]

It doesn't necessarily bring new players in but it plays a role in keeping them in the sport.

Many would argue its driving plenty of kids out of the sport.

The main point of the academies isn’t necessarily to bring in players from other sports although that has worked at times with Payne, Heeney and others who likely would not have played AFL without the academies. You can for sure make the case broadly that the academies haven’t increased non-players into players but what they are important for is providing a pathway to the AFL or just competitive level footy, something the traditional states have in spades. There is no need for academies in these areas and anyway creating NGA’s for 10 vic clubs is going to be logistically near on impossible to do fairly anyway.

They also keep guys playing footy through the teens and into senior footy who traditionally get lost to the sport and go play league or stop sports altogether due to lack of pathways forward ie QAFL or nothing…and very few people are getting drafted out of the QAFL. The standard has come a long way in the last 5 years or so but it is simply nowhere near the other state leagues, especially if you play for the handful of lower ranked teams which are miles off the top few at senior level.

I have a bit to do with the QAFL and I can tell you the main frustration for parents and kids in years gone by is there was virtually nowhere to go with it, the academies aren’t perfect but they at least they give these guys a way forward. Is it unfair at times…maybe, maybe not but the growth and development of QLD footy needs to be club in IMO and that requires incentives for them to do so.

Go back to the pre-academy days and kids were drafted from the QAFL on a regular basis. In fact, far more often than they are from the academy now. Era of 1995 to about 2005 there was an avalanche of kids getting drafted.

Even in more recent years, Samson Ryan, Blake Coleman, Bruce Reville, Josh Smith, Adam Oxley, Noah Cumberland, Oskar Baker, Elliot Himmelberg & Carter Michael were drafted more from the QAFL than they were the academy.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Many would argue its driving plenty of kids out of the sport.



Go back to the pre-academy days and kids were drafted from the QAFL on a regular basis. In fact, far more often than they are from the academy now. Era of 1995 to about 2005 there was an avalanche of kids getting drafted.

Even in more recent years, Samson Ryan, Blake Coleman, Bruce Reville, Josh Smith, Adam Oxley, Noah Cumberland, Oskar Baker, Elliot Himmelberg & Carter Michael were drafted more from the QAFL than they were the academy.

Mate, have a look at GC’s academy haul last year and tell me elite level talent like that would ever have been drafted straight from the QAFL. It is absolutely doing its job in terms of developing AFL level footballers. Half of the players you mentioned were academy players anyway.

 

[Happy_Neale]

I think there's a benefit to giving extra coaching and development to kids from a community that's previously has very little connection with the game, not so much for keeping them in the system, but for the purpose of developing star ethnic minority players. I honestly believe it's a big deal to ethnic minorities when they see one of their own succeeding at a sport, when it comes to fostering and keeping interest in it. Lin Jong was never a great player, but I'm sure he had a bigger impact on getting Chinese people interested in the game than any other player. Ditto for Majak Daw with African people.

Of course, this doesn't have to translate into priority access, but again the AFL are abrogating their responsibility to grow the game and handing it off to clubs. And if clubs are taking on that responsibility, they need some kind of reward for it.

I absolutely agree that allowing pathways for those from non-traditional, indigenous and/or multicultural backgrounds is a great idea, the NGA is not the way to do it though IMO.

 

[KissKiss]

Not sure what the moral of the story is but stop trying to be too cute and cut the BS because I dare say people within the AFL can see through it too although there are a lot of sucks at HQ; I know one and he’s the biggest yes man you’ll come across who never believes the AFL does any wrong.

Been told a few times there are two maybe three things you need to work at the AFL. First is if you are female you need to have a photos in your application (I think its clear what they are interested in here), second is a big list of who you know (its all about who your dad is or how many of the current admin you can suck up to). The third one is for anyone actually talented or with a skill set, but to start out there you need to work for peanuts. They are totally happy to massively exploit a heap of people who think its their dream job.