List Mgmt. 2024 Father Son watch MKIII. Operation Ashcroft jnr. Featuring various academy boys.

[Jivlain]

 

[OnLooker1932]

Do you reckon we won't match the bid? I think the club will prioritise Gillett due to his height, replacing Lane. Gilder would be replacing Lester, but Lester will be around another year, maybe the club takes the risk nobody will draft Gilder this year. Gallop could get picked by someone I guess, but this is a very good draft for KPPs so I doubt it.

I think they should take him, but I don't think they will.

That basically controlled Allues team this year with Hahn as coach, and left him out of squad of 30 to start with.

I belive quite a few southern clubs are keen on him though, it's be shocked if he's not picked up, but I stunt recon he'll be a Lion.

Gilder, I have no idea where he's rated, but Lions would have a better idea of his gifts.

I recon McFayden a better chance to go though.

 

[M Malice]

Get on the Ty Gallop bandwagon before it's too late.

 

[Miller1971]

Maroochydore play Surfers and Morningside in the closing 2 rounds of the QAFL.

They are pretty much out of finals contention, but both Surfers and Morningside are finals calibre teams with some good defenders.

Good opportunity to see what Gallop has to offer against mature and high quality opposition. Both games would be live streamed on the AFLQ Youtube platform if people wanted a look at him

 

[Gadzorks]

I read the Saints review board and there was a bit of angst re father son. Mainly cause of the ashcrofts. Poor Fletcher didn't get a mention. Being the child of an elite athlete doesn't mean you inherit their talent, and talent is only one component of success.

I don't know where to find the stats to see how many get drafted and how many try at junior level but don't make it. Do more than average 1 or 2 a year get drafted? That doesn't seem like enough to be the draft manipulation that some are frothing over.

A much bigger impact is from trading in elite players. Without those, even with the father sons, we still be saints level plodders. To get those players you have to have the club culture and management right. We couldn't attract a blow fly for years, and rightly sat at the bottom of the competition.

Jumping on the anti father son bandwagon is lazy excuse making. We don't get Levi, we just trade in another big name who wants to drink the Lions coolaid.

Please please let our next coach have the same culture building skills as fagan. Build it and they will come.

 

[jjami15]

I read the Saints review board and there was a bit of angst re father son. Mainly cause of the ashcrofts. Poor Fletcher didn't get a mention. Being the child of an elite athlete doesn't mean you inherit their talent, and talent is only one component of success.

I don't know where to find the stats to see how many get drafted and how many try at junior level but don't make it. Do more than average 1 or 2 a year get drafted? That doesn't seem like enough to be the draft manipulation that some are frothing over.

A much bigger impact is from trading in elite players. Without those, even with the father sons, we still be saints level plodders. To get those players you have to have the club culture and management right. We couldn't attract a blow fly for years, and rightly sat at the bottom of the competition.

Jumping on the anti father son bandwagon is lazy excuse making. We don't get Levi, we just trade in another big name who wants to drink the Lions coolaid.

Please please let our next coach have the same culture building skills as fagan. Build it and they will come.

The real reality of the situation is Saints terrible drafting. Petracca was the best kid at the national champs and should have picked him, they drafted Billings and should have drafted the Bont. Now that is just two easy mistakes to find but there are more. Instead of complaining look at your own mistakes, identify them, take ownership and do better. Imagine Trac and Bont in the same team. Scary.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The real reality of the situation is Saints terrible drafting. Petracca was the best kid at the national champs and should have picked him, they drafted Billings and should have drafted the Bont. Now that is just two easy mistakes to find but there are more. Instead of complaining look at your own mistakes, identify them, take ownership and do better. Imagine Trac and Bont in the same team. Scary.

Coffield over Naughton was a bad one. Though to be fair Freo are even more culpable since Naughton was from their reserves team and they had an earlier pick.

 

[Perrip]

I don't know where to find the stats to see how many get drafted and how many try at junior level but don't make it. Do more than average 1 or 2 a year get drafted? That doesn't seem like enough to be the draft manipulation that some are frothing over.

It differs year to year, how many get drafted -
2023: 5
2022: 7
2021: 5
2020: 2
2019: 2
2018: 6
2017: 3
2016: 5
2015: 3
2014: 6
2013: 1
2012: 3

 

[KissKiss]

The real reality of the situation is Saints terrible drafting. Petracca was the best kid at the national champs and should have picked him, they drafted Billings and should have drafted the Bont. Now that is just two easy mistakes to find but there are more. Instead of complaining look at your own mistakes, identify them, take ownership and do better. Imagine Trac and Bont in the same team. Scary.

Im not sure if its drafting or development. But not many high level picks seem to develop at the Saints. Most of their best players over the last decade seem to come from other clubs

 

[Miller1971]

It differs year to year, how many get drafted -
2023: 5
2022: 7
2021: 5
2020: 2
2019: 2
2018: 6
2017: 3
2016: 5
2015: 3
2014: 6
2013: 1
2012: 3

These numbers are also compromised, because there have been many failed F/S selections and then also other exceptions like Josh Daicos who was virtually unwanted by everyone (including Collingwood) and turned into good players.

It's onlt worth debating over the absolute gun F/S kids going in the first round and clubs not having to stump up.

I love the F/S rule (despite being a long suffering Saint) and think clubs should absolutely get first rights over kids, but they should be paying a fairer price. A FAIR price is too much to ask for, as generational talents like Ashcorft X 2 , Nick Daicos, Darcy etc will come along and I still like seeing them in their Dad's colours - but packaging up 4 late picks shouldn't get it done. They need to at the very least be paying their first and second rounder for kids bid on in the Top 10

 

[dlanod]

These numbers are also compromised, because there have been many failed F/S selections and then also other exceptions like Josh Daicos who was virtually unwanted by everyone (including Collingwood) and turned into good players.

It's onlt worth debating over the absolute gun F/S kids going in the first round and clubs not having to stump up.

I love the F/S rule (despite being a long suffering Saint) and think clubs should absolutely get first rights over kids, but they should be paying a fairer price. A FAIR price is too much to ask for, as generational talents like Ashcorft X 2 , Nick Daicos, Darcy etc will come along and I still like seeing them in their Dad's colours - but packaging up 4 late picks shouldn't get it done. They need to at the very least be paying their first and second rounder for kids bid on in the Top 10

As of next year the discount will drop to 10% and the draft pick value will be substantially shortened to only 54 picks with value.

With Will, we matched pick 2 with picks 34, 35, 38, 40 and 41. Even ignoring that we got some points back at the end, these days that would leave us 800 points short or the equivalent of pick 19. The reduced discount and Round 3 picks being worth 60% or less of what they were basically kills a lot of the stockpiling dead. Round 1 picks drop in value too, but all are at least 85% of what they were.

The changes also implicitly requires you to have at least one fairly high pick to try to match a high bid - this was a mooted rule they didn't introduce, but by maths it works out that way anyway now.

 

[Perrip]

These numbers are also compromised, because there have been many failed F/S selections and then also other exceptions like Josh Daicos who was virtually unwanted by everyone (including Collingwood) and turned into good players.

Yeah, was going to say that in my comment, it differs a lot from F/S selection to F/S selection. You've got the generational talents Naicos, Washcroft, etc., the ones who perform their role in a team Fletcher, Quaynor, etc., and the ones that don't make it at an AFL level Oscar Brown less (Geelong), Ben Silvagni (Carlton), etc.

 

[JasRulz63]

The real reality of the situation is Saints terrible drafting. Petracca was the best kid at the national champs and should have picked him, they drafted Billings and should have drafted the Bont. Now that is just two easy mistakes to find but there are more. Instead of complaining look at your own mistakes, identify them, take ownership and do better. Imagine Trac and Bont in the same team. Scary.

Not to mention more recently, it seems they've gone to the Scott Clayton of drafting predominately flankers instead of natural midfielders.

 

[Elixuh]

As of next year the discount will drop to 10% and the draft pick value will be substantially shortened to only 54 picks with value.

With Will, we matched pick 2 with picks 34, 35, 38, 40 and 41. Even ignoring that we got some points back at the end, these days that would leave us 800 points short or the equivalent of pick 19. The reduced discount and Round 3 picks being worth 60% or less of what they were basically kills a lot of the stockpiling dead. Round 1 picks drop in value too, but all are at least 85% of what they were.

The changes also implicitly requires you to have at least one fairly high pick to try to match a high bid - this was a mooted rule they didn't introduce, but by maths it works out that way anyway now.

So can we rort or not?

 

[Grasshopper17]

So can we rort or not?

View attachment 2070230

Such a brilliant movie

 

[RoyBoy17]

The whinging and whining from saints fans is really something else. This is a club that decided that throwing the kitchen sink at a player like Bradley Hill was a good idea. They also got Mitch Owens and Marcus Windhager from the same bidding system and rort that is the NGA. I would dare say they've had higher picks than us over several years now. How about they just recruit the right coaches, players and administrators before blaming the system.

 

[Viceregal]

The whinging and whining from saints fans is really something else. This is a club that decided that throwing the kitchen sink at a player like Bradley Hill was a good idea. They also got Mitch Owens and Marcus Windhager from the same bidding system and rort that is the NGA. I would dare say they've had higher picks than us over several years now. How about they just recruit the right coaches, players and administrators before blaming the system.

At least they have involved many coaches with premiership DNA now ...

The good news is they can teach them what it means to be St Kilda... the bad news is that they are learning what it means to be St Kilda!

 

[OnLooker1932]

Yeah, was going to say that in my comment, it differs a lot from F/S selection to F/S selection. You've got the generational talents Naicos, Washcroft, etc., the ones who perform their role in a team Fletcher, Quaynor, etc., and the ones that don't make it at an AFL level Oscar Brown less (Geelong), Ben Silvagni (Carlton), etc.

I actually played footy with Brayden Shaw (Tony's son) and Heath (Ray's son) coming through the TAC Cup.

Brayden was the most sure thing you could imagine coming through the draft and F/S. Heath was a marginal talent at best (I was a better player than him as a 17/18 year old).

Brayden went to Collingwood as the next big thing, had he not been F/S - he would have been picked up inside the Top 5 of the draft without question.

Brayden never played a senior game, Heath played 300+ and won a flag.

If it were 2003 all over again now, the Pies had just played in back to back flag losses and they were getting Brayden Shaw for virtually nothing, the whinging would be out of control.

Still a mystery to me how he didn't make it, was a dominant player for Knights and Vic Metro - he had everything.

 

[Darren Downunder]

As of next year the discount will drop to 10% and the draft pick value will be substantially shortened to only 54 picks with value.

With Will, we matched pick 2 with picks 34, 35, 38, 40 and 41. Even ignoring that we got some points back at the end, these days that would leave us 800 points short or the equivalent of pick 19. The reduced discount and Round 3 picks being worth 60% or less of what they were basically kills a lot of the stockpiling dead. Round 1 picks drop in value too, but all are at least 85% of what they were.

The changes also implicitly requires you to have at least one fairly high pick to try to match a high bid - this was a mooted rule they didn't introduce, but by maths it works out that way anyway now.

My question to you expert draft watchers out there…

What did we have to give up to get picks 34,35,38,40 and 41?
Because that’s what we paid for WAshcroft.

Also, every team that traded those picks to us for our higher picks gained something out of the deal.

I’m not saying the old system was fair or the new system is unfair.
I just don’t know.

 

[morsie]

I read the Saints review board and there was a bit of angst re father son. Mainly cause of the ashcrofts. Poor Fletcher didn't get a mention. Being the child of an elite athlete doesn't mean you inherit their talent, and talent is only one component of success.

I don't know where to find the stats to see how many get drafted and how many try at junior level but don't make it. Do more than average 1 or 2 a year get drafted? That doesn't seem like enough to be the draft manipulation that some are frothing over.

A much bigger impact is from trading in elite players. Without those, even with the father sons, we still be saints level plodders. To get those players you have to have the club culture and management right. We couldn't attract a blow fly for years, and rightly sat at the bottom of the competition.

Jumping on the anti father son bandwagon is lazy excuse making. We don't get Levi, we just trade in another big name who wants to drink the Lions coolaid.

Please please let our next coach have the same culture building skills as fagan. Build it and they will come.

Yep they don't recall where we were only 7 or 8 years ago.Their club has botched several rebuilds and brought in some overrated or ove r the hill talent.

 

[dmac_55]

Gillet, Gildor and Gallop.
Are we serious? Can someone please create nicknames for these blokes so we don’t get confused.

The 200 CM kid can be Big G!!

 

[McIvor]

Gillet, Gildor and Gallop.
Are we serious? Can someone please create nicknames for these blokes so we don’t get confused.

The 200 CM kid can be Big G!!

So would I be correct in thinking we have our eyes on and decisions to be made on these six kids for next seasons list - F/S = Levi Ashcroft and Academy - Marshall, Gillett, Gilder, Gallop and Richardson.

Any experts out there be able to rank who they think we're likely to take with the exception of Levi which you'd assume is a given? Are there others we'd be considering?

 

[briztoon]

My question to you expert draft watchers out there…

What did we have to give up to get picks 34,35,38,40 and 41?
Because that’s what we paid for WAshcroft.

Also, every team that traded those picks to us for our higher picks gained something out of the deal.

I’m not saying the old system was fair or the new system is unfair.
I just don’t know.

That was a “funny” trade period. GWS, GC and Geelong were literally throwing picks at us during that trade period, every time we did a pick swap.

 

[Pns_blister]

St Kilda are a joke and need to fold. Oversaturated Victorian market which does nothing for the growth of the game, but hold it back. League can’t keep expanding as the talent pool isn’t strong enough. Keep it at 18 teams when Tassie comes in and let them pick St Kilda’s carcass.

 

[JasRulz63]

My question to you expert draft watchers out there…

What did we have to give up to get picks 34,35,38,40 and 41?
Because that’s what we paid for WAshcroft.

Also, every team that traded those picks to us for our higher picks gained something out of the deal.

I’m not saying the old system was fair or the new system is unfair.
I just don’t know.

Ignoring the DFA and cat B signings, that trade period can be grossly summarised as:
Dunkley, Gunston, pick 2 (Ashcroft), Fletcher (pick 11), future third
for McStay, T.Berry, pick 15, 33, 44, 69 and future first.

The real magic was essentially turning pick 15 and T. Berry into picks 21, 36, 38, 55, 56 + Geelong's FR2 and FR4.

 

[Miller1971]

So would I be correct in thinking we have our eyes on and decisions to be made on these six kids for next seasons list - F/S = Levi Ashcroft and Academy - Marshall, Gillett, Gilder, Gallop and Richardson.

Any experts out there be able to rank who they think we're likely to take with the exception of Levi which you'd assume is a given? Are there others we'd be considering?

Gilder the best player currently of that lot outside Ashcroft and Marshall (who are both certainties and Lions have committed to them both) but Gillett might be considered the 'best prospect'