List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[briztoon]

Agree we won't have the draft capital to trade in someone decent unless they come free.
The only other way is if one of our top 6 players still under contract wants out, we will get something then.
That's not desirable though.
We get a likely top 5 player in Levi and as you say some academy kids that hopefully have talent.
We just need to hope the new academy rules come in in 2025.

Some posters talking about a rebuild but not likely or need for the club to go in that direction in my opinion.

We have done pretty well trade and draft wise in the last three years with only last years crop yet to prove to be AFL level.
Doedee would have but that will have to be next year now.
Draft the last 3 years.
Wilmot (pick 16), Lohmann (20), Tunstill (41), Mc Dowell-White (F/S no real pick needed), Ashcroft (2), Fletcher (12), Brain (zone) then last year Reville (zone) Morris (31), Lloyd (42), ZZ (51), Torrent (64)
Trade the last 3 years
Fort (basically free), Dunkley, Gunston (b/free) Ryan (b/free), Doedee (RFA)
Preseason Supplementary the last 3 years
M Cox, D Joyce, K McKenna

When you look at Richmond that won a premiership 3 years ago.
Draft the last 3 years.
Gibcus (9), Tom Brown (17), T Sonsie (28), S Banks (29) Judson Clark (30) Kaleb Smith (49) Steely Green (55), S Campbell (R12), Tylar Young (R26), K McAuliffe (40), L Fawcett (43),
Trade the last 3 years
R Tarrant (retired), Hopper, Taranto, J Koschitzke (delisted free agent)
Mid-season draft the last 3 years
J Bauer, M Coulthard, J Trezise,
Preseason Supplementary the last 3 years
K Bradtke M Lefau

Richmond only had 2 picks in the top 20 to our 4 and i would not swap any of ours for their 2.
Lions way ahead in the preseason supplementary selections also.
Trade wise they got 2 and we got 2 but Doedee yet to play. (Koschitzke & Tarrant cancels out Fort & Gunston)

It’s a small thing, but Brandon Ryan cost us our second round pick this year.

Which is a fair chunk of points towards matching Ashcroft or Marshall.

 

[Elixuh]

It’s a small thing, but Brandon Ryan cost us our second round pick this year.

Which is a fair chunk of points towards matching Ashcroft or Marshall.

I thought Ryan was like 20. Only found out yesterday when I was trolling some hawks that he is 27 this year lol.

 

[Sproj]

Even if we have a slightly down year this season (I still think we will finish top 8 anyway but not top 4), we are primed for 2025.

Let's assume Berry and McCluggage stay.

We also bring in WAshcroft, LAshcroft, Doedee and Coleman, those are four massive ins and is also not factoring any progression we might see from the likes of Morris, Tunstill, etc. It also does not factor in any young ruckman we might be looking at in addition to Smith or the other academy kid/s we might get who might do a Fletcher and prove themselves ready far before expected.

We are absolutely ready to give 2025 a red hot crack whatever happens this year and if everyone hangs around, there are going to be some massive selection headaches and some usual best 22 players finding themselves on the outer.

 

[McIvor]

It’s a small thing, but Brandon Ryan cost us our second round pick this year.

Which is a fair chunk of points towards matching Ashcroft or Marshall.

Said last year we massively overpaid and still confused to this day why we did so?

 

[Kickback Flip]

To be honest, we ain’t paying Clugga $1m+ to plonk him on a wing.

Why not? Hugh's best two seasons at the Lions has been playing on the wing. He was very stiff not to be All Australian playing on the wing.

Also, playing wing and earning one million isn't out of the ordinary. Errol Gulden just signed a contract which would be close to seven figures. Bailey Smith is rumoured to be offered around this figure to leave the Bulldogs.

The AFL has also predicted that the league will have around 70 to 80 1 million per year players within the next few years with the new CBA.

 

[Section 5]

It’s a small thing, but Brandon Ryan cost us our second round pick this year.

Which is a fair chunk of points towards matching Ashcroft or Marshall.

I did not go into it much when i saw the multiple picks etc on Draft Guru see below. Just went for "basically nothing".
It was part of the Gunston trade so we gained some salary cap relief also, which is hard to convert to draft points.
Then there was what we got back from the Hawks
.......................................................................
From AFL article
The Lions have sent a future second-rounder (tied to Brisbane) and picks 47 and 61 to the Hawks along with Gunston.
Ryan, a future fourth-rounder (tied to the Hawks) and picks 39 and 54 are heading to Brisbane.

From Draft Guru
Traded for #47 + #61 + #2024R2 (Brisbane) + Gunston
(with #39 + #54 + #2024R4 (Hawthorn))+ Ryan

Its a bit hard to work out net points as you would have to follow all those Lions picks through to where each ended up.
Then of course we used some or all of these picks for the 2023 draftees.

The club may have tried to trade picks in what ended up being Morris & Lloyd back into the 2024 draft but maybe no takers.
Or maybe they were happy to take players at what ended up being pick 31 & 42.

 

[Section 5]

Said last year we massively overpaid and still confused to this day why we did so?

But did we ?.
See above for the actual trade.

 

[martinson]

I did not go into it much when i saw the multiple picks etc on Draft Guru see below. Just went for "basically nothing".
It was part of the Gunston trade so we gained some salary cap relief also, which is hard to convert to draft points.
Then there was what we got back from the Hawks
.......................................................................
From AFL article
The Lions have sent a future second-rounder (tied to Brisbane) and picks 47 and 61 to the Hawks along with Gunston.
Ryan, a future fourth-rounder (tied to the Hawks) and picks 39 and 54 are heading to Brisbane.

From Draft Guru
Traded for #47 + #61 + #2024R2 (Brisbane) + Gunston
(with #39 + #54 + #2024R4 (Hawthorn))+ Ryan

Its a bit hard to work out net points as you would have to follow all those Lions picks through to where each ended up.
Then of course we used some or all of these picks for the 2023 draftees.

The club may have tried to trade picks in what ended up being Morris & Lloyd back into the 2024 draft but maybe no takers.
Or maybe they were happy to take players at what ended up being pick 31 & 42.

If Ryan ends up a Senior player it's a great deal.

If not ,as you say , it's very difficult to know the net result.

 

[buttermuffs]

That'd be for our recruiters to decide, I'm certainly no recruiter. But since you're asking for my opinion, out of the players who are out of contract I like Ollie Florent, Conor Nash, Alex Davies and Jack Graham. I wouldn't mind seeing how Cam Zurhaar goes in a better team also. Probably others that I've overlooked too.

Literally none of them play wing.

 

[Scubaveg]

I hate Nerang. Nerang is a shithole.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[buttermuffs]

Berry only needs to be on a back ended contract that puts him in the clubs top 25% of earners for this season alone, to trigger restrive free agency.

That's not proving Berry is on a big contract over the life of his current deal. Pretty sure the reported speculation when he re-signed his current deal, was $600k per.

Top 25% of the list is 11 players, so half the starting best 22. Considering two of our best 22 are still on their rookie deals, and another 2 are on their first contract post rookie deal, it's not hard to see Berry being one of the better paid players in our team, even if he's "just" on $600k.

Puts some good perspective on it. I’m gonna see if I can name the ten players I think he’d be alongside in the top 25%.

Neale
McCluggage
Dunkley
Andrews
Doedee
Daniher
Cameron
Hipwood
Coleman
McInerney

 

[SpecialBruce]

I mean, any thing is possible, but I don’t see how we manage a mini rebuild.

Our drafting for the next two or three years is pretty much laid out there, with our father sons and academy kids coming through.

Don’t believe we’ll have the draft capital to be active in the trade market.

By mini rebuild I mean we play some of the kids for an extended and start to work out who can fill the roles of some other players in the team and who will not make it as an AFL footballer. Better to work that out now rather than later.

 

[buttermuffs]

Lyons is cooked I agree.

Zorko and Lester would be in our best 5 players this year. One's 35 and the other took 8 years to cement a spot.

That's the worry.

Whether we can't afford to drop games or we don't think the reserves will ever be good enough we're just not blooding enough young players. I can see the reasons why but whatever, playing Lyons is not the way to go.

Bit of a tangent but does anyone think Zorko can reach 300 games?

Hit 250 during the grand final and if he stays healthy this year will be on around 273. If he stays healthy with this output he could make the AA squad and would definitely want to go again next year. Then he’d be around 290-296. At that point he could stay on and be a sub for however many games left at 37.

It would be improbable but he has looked quite healthy this year and has found a role that’s less demanding on his body.

I would really love to see it happen, after Rich missed out I’d love to see another reach the milestone who’s played through the dark years.

 

[buttermuffs]

I’ve always been against tanking, but not sure where you get a “primed list” from.

We made a bloody grand final last year, lost by four points and have every player from that side available this year bar Coleman but also get Ashcroft back.

It’s a list well primed to win a premiership. There have been teams with primed lists that also never win one.

 

[Viceregal]

Anyone seriously thinking about tanking ... apart from the whole culture killing side of things... do they really think the V/AFL would pass up such a gilt edged gift wrapped fallout free opportunity to show themselves tough on those trying to rort the system... We would look with fondness at the early 2000's Blues wishing we were so blessed!

 

[Nathan Barley]

Anyone seriously thinking about tanking ... apart from the whole culture killing side of things... do they really think the V/AFL would pass up such a gilt edged gift wrapped fallout free opportunity to show themselves tough on those trying to rort the system... We would look with fondness at the early 2000's Blues wishing we were so blessed!

Just need to send Joe, Charlie, Lachie, Harris and Oscar in for surgery around round 14

 

[briztoon]

But did we ?.

Yes.

We traded a second round pick + Gunston for a player who was a mid season rookie pick 5 months earlier. (Who we then gave a 3 year contract to).

See above for the actual trade.

 

[Nunez]

Yes.

We traded a second round pick + Gunston for a player who was a mid season rookie pick 5 months earlier. (Who we then gave a 3 year contract to).

Maybe we rate him?

 

[briztoon]

Puts some good perspective on it. I’m gonna see if I can name the ten players I think he’d be alongside in the top 25%.

Neale
McCluggage
Dunkley
Andrews
Doedee
Daniher
Cameron
Hipwood
Coleman
McInerney

Rayner

 

[McIvor]

We made a bloody grand final last year, lost by four points and have every player from that side available this year bar Coleman but also get Ashcroft back.

It’s a list well primed to win a premiership. There have been teams with primed lists that also never win one.

I appreciate the past but like most losing grand finalists, they fall away. The club’s narrative ever since that fateful day was that we would buck the trend and not fall away. I distinctly recall Fagan being adamant about that.

I just don’t get where us being a primed list based on the output to date comes from. We look lethargic, dispirited, unfit at times and the hunger has clearly subsided. Prior to this year, we’d lost something like 5 games at the Gabba in the past 50 and were up to 3 in 3 now. Again, this doesn’t scream a primed team to me. That doesn’t even highlight the deficiencies in our coaching department which were roundly condemned for its poor effort on the weekend to go with a couple of other occasions this year when we lost it at the match committee. Complacency has obviously set in, a dose of arrogance too, a lack of hunger and expecting that it’d naturally happen. Primed teams and clubs don’t display that. He’ll the discussion on Cam in the other thread and the coaches inability to still effectively use him to his strengths screams issues to me.

 

[McIvor]

Maybe we rate him?

Then play him, can think of one left footer he could replace who still has the same issues as he did five years ago and hasn’t really improved.

 

[Nunez]

Then play him, can think of one left footer he could replace who still has the same issues as he did five years ago and hasn’t really improved.

I think he'd have played by now if he wasn't returning from injury.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Didn’t our (original) second rounder last year end up being pick 43?

For context

 

[McIvor]

I think he'd have played by now if he wasn't returning from injury.

He’d have to be worth a look in perhaps a week or two in favour of Gardiner then.

 

[Nunez]

He’d have to be worth a look in perhaps a week or two in favour of Gardiner then.

Tbh I think Smith is ahead of him.