List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets

[Dockeroo]

Owens was an NGA player only available to St Kilda.

That’s incorrect. They could only match a bid outside the top 20 that year. If west coast had selected him at pick 14 he would be an eagle right now.
Mac Andrew was on the same draft and went at pick 5 to the suns despite being a Melbourne NGA at the time.

 

[pK75]

It’s funny to read this thread the past couple of weeks. The 3 main points have been
Just draft with our picks don’t trade for future picks
Trade for future picks for Warner next year we don’t need any more kids
Trade the picks this year for players (Bolton/warner)

It’s been so split between everyone on what we should/will do I’m so unsure what is going to happen. Which makes it even funnier because in the past the team list has been lacking a lot that we know exactly what we should do eg trade for key fwds every year the past 15 years. The evenness of all 3 options on what we need to do probably shows how good of a position we are in list wise that any of the 3 options could be the right option

Yep, I think everyone is teetering on what the best option is, however I don’t think we can loose. My order of preference is.
1) Throw the kitchen sink at Sydney for Warner, and I mean everything, 4 1st round picks with 19 coming back our way so we can tick off taking a 1st round pick this year. But let them know if they don’t take it this year we aren’t trading picks forward, they can take 2 x 1st rounders next year (2025&2026).
2) offer our best 1st rounder to Richmond for Bolton, nothing more, maybe a swap of later picks, to make them feel better. Take 2 x 1st and St kilda second to the draft.
3) take all 3x1st to the draft and possibly trade St kilda’s second to a contenting team for their F1 if they are desperate for someone who has slid through to that pick.

 

[theGav56]

Ya their talent ID has not been great in recent years. It’s not clear cut that Johnson was the player they obviously missed out on instead of Chesser either that year though.

They could have had Michito Owens (who looks a gun and nearly won the rising star last year, went at pick 33), Darcy wilmot, JVR, Conor Mcdonald, Kai Lohmann (who is turning into a ripper for the lions this year) and even Tom Brown at Richmond looks very impressive.
I’ve certainly been a fan of Johnnos work in recent weeks but he’s probably one of 7 or 8 that you could throw a blanket over in that draft after pick 14 that the eagles missed out on.
At this point in think most clubs would still select Owens and JVR ahead of Matt Johnson in a redraft.
Eagles fans would have liked the look of Allan and JVR spearheading their attack for the next decade

Part of the point is they could have traded down the Chesser pick and grabbed the local Johnson (we may have grabbed jvr). And indeed they could also have taken jvr if they were blinkered onto locals.

 

[Dockeroo]

I think we need to take at least one good pick in the top 12 in this years draft.
We have basically sat out of 2 drafts in a row now. It does seem we may have got lucky with players like draper in the 2022 rookie draft.
However guys like Emmett, Delean, Wagner, Knobel, Reidy, Murphy, even cooper Simpson are all very unlikely to be elite talents.
Going three drafts in a row without any first round players of genuine quality would start to create a hole in the list that is not dissimilar to the drafts of 2012-2015, and we really need to avoid that if possible.
It really hurts a few years later.

 

[theGav56]

Yep, I think everyone is teetering on what the best option is, however I don’t think we can loose. My order of preference is.
1) Throw the kitchen sink at Sydney for Warner, and I mean everything, 4 1st round picks with 19 coming back our way so we can tick off taking a 1st round pick this year. But let them know if they don’t take it this year we aren’t trading picks forward, they can take 2 x 1st rounders next year (2025&2026).
2) offer our best 1st rounder to Richmond for Bolton, nothing more, maybe a swap of later picks, to make them feel better. Take 2 x 1st and St kilda second to the draft.
3) take all 3x1st to the draft and possibly trade St kilda’s second to a contenting team for their F1 if they are desperate for someone who has slid through to that pick.

If Bolton is coming in on $1.3 as reported, I think that will create some discussion amongst players and managers.

 

[Bigger]

I like the Chad. In fact, he was my number 1 pick in his draft year. He has exceeded even my expectations. Because he is allowed to cheat forward. He still kicks the goals from midfield - which is tough - and his GF was sensational, so I know he's more than a fruitfly.

But if we're to looking to add not just some cream on the cake but a genuine alpha who is convinced every time he touches the pill he can and will turn the game, we need to get it absolutley right before we trade more than 2 first-round picks.

Baker isn't even cream on the cake. He's ****ing kiwi fruit or halfprice strawberries. He was part of an excellent cake but we already have a pretty decent cake.

Bolton is cream. I warm more to the idea of the Dockeriest father-son arrangement every time I see him sit on someone's head or kick 4.3 in a losing side.

But I reckon, and I have been known to be wrong, that we need a mature and consistent big dog, who says "Give it to me" and everyone realises that is the absolute right thing to do.

And I reckon that bloke is Hayden Young

26

Hayden Young

Age

23

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

3star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

2star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.4

4star

MG

160.0

3star

. He just hasn't realised it yet.

Get Chad when he's out of contract for a fair and reasonable price.

Only get Bolton if he's cheap. (And he's not).

But otherwise, go to the draft a bit this year, exploit whoever is willing to give us next year's goodness, and know we still have significant upside internally.

Because Dockeroo is right. We have had a couple of comparatively lean years at the drft and if we have the opportunity to add top-end youth and trade in, we have to do it.

For the SUSTAINED success I know you love.

 

[Spirit Level]

Yeah don't want Bolton on a huge contract.

I would however like a small forward, whether we draft one or trade for one

 

[Bigger]

If Bolton is coming in on $1.3 as reported, I think that will create some discussion amongst players and managers.

This cannot be overstated.

I know we have been doing a fair bit of picking over the carcass of those clowns up the road, but you need to learn from other people's lessons as well.

They at least got a flag before contract jealousy started ripping the joint apart.

I know we have to be bold but you don't want to piss off the chickens when you bring in a new rooster.

It's Richmond's fault they're paying the bloke too much. If they are clever enough to get picks in before Tassie comes, they will do sensible deals.

 

[go_the_dockers]

This cannot be overstated.

I know we have been doing a fair bit of picking over the carcass of those clowns up the road, but you need to learn from other people's lessons as well.

They at least got a flag before contract jealousy started ripping the joint apart.

I know we have to be bold but you don't want to piss off the chickens when you bring in a new rooster.

It's Richmond's fault they're paing the bloke too much. If they are clever enough to get picks in before Tassie comes, they will do sensible deals.

I would expect they back ended the contract.

I know Lynch's contract is massively back end.

Not a bad plan, when you are in the window, and eventually the core of the squad will retire and you will have lots of salary cap space.

 

[CapitalA]

Talk around the time WC traded that pick #2 was that the Victorian lads available at the second live pick (Sheezel/Wardlaw) were flight risks. So they split the pick and took both local mids.

Watching Sheezel request a trade home this very off season would be a double kick in the beans.

Wasn't Harley Reid a flight risk too though?

 

[oldgoat]

I think we need to take at least one good pick in the top 12 in this years draft.
We have basically sat out of 2 drafts in a row now. It does seem we may have got lucky with players like draper in the 2022 rookie draft.
However guys like Emmett, Delean, Wagner, Knobel, Reidy, Murphy, even cooper Simpson are all very unlikely to be elite talents.
Going three drafts in a row without any first round players of genuine quality would start to create a hole in the list that is not dissimilar to the drafts of 2012-2015, and we really need to avoid that if possible.
It really hurts a few years later.

One eye on Flagmantle2025!
The other on the THREEPEAT!
Our third eye is of course on
FREO STEAL 2024 FLAG!
YOKAI!

 

[Paracleet]

I like the Chad. In fact, he was my number 1 pick in his draft year. He has exceeded even my expectations. Because he is allowed to cheat forward. He still kicks the goals from midfield - which is tough - and his GF was sensational, so I know he's more than a fruitfly.

But if we're to looking to add not just some cream on the cake but a genuine alpha who is convinced every time he touches the pill he can and will turn the game, we need to get it absolutely right before we trade more than 2 first-round picks.

Caveat here on my opinions is I definitely want him in our side. I'm not anti-Chad: But I think there is a genuine discussion to be had about how much you would be prepared to outlay for someone like Warner.

I always felt Fyfe got over-rated a little bit as a midfielder because of his showy contested marking abilities. Was he a great player: Absolutely. Is he an absolute all time great: Not really. I don't think he was clearly superior as an inside midfielder than any of the other top mids of his prime period (Dangerfield, Pendlebury and Selwood had one Browlow between them), but the showiest part of his game differentiated him.

Take his goals out and Warners pure midfield numbers aren't that great (they're still good, but a fair way off*). If we are going to pay a Judd level price I would really want someone who, if Serong is injured and Fyfe retired, we can take out of his forward / mid position and plonk at number 1 inside mid and have him deliver.

Shorter version: Three firsts is too much without something material back. 3 firsts and a future first is bonkers.

*I'm sure some of you will be thinking 'well if he had the opportunity he would be as good'. That's fine, but it's never been tested.

 

[mightymouse75]

I like the Chad. In fact, he was my number 1 pick in his draft year. He has exceeded even my expectations. Because he is allowed to cheat forward. He still kicks the goals from midfield - which is tough - and his GF was sensational, so I know he's more than a fruitfly.

But if we're to looking to add not just some cream on the cake but a genuine alpha who is convinced every time he touches the pill he can and will turn the game, we need to get it absolutley right before we trade more than 2 first-round picks.

Baker isn't even cream on the cake. He's ****ing kiwi fruit or halfprice strawberries. He was part of an excellent cake but we already have a pretty decent cake.

Bolton is cream. I warm more to the idea of the Dockeriest father-son arrangement every time I see him sit on someone's head or kick 4.3 in a losing side.

But I reckon, and I have been known to be wrong, that we need a mature and consistent big dog, who says "Give it to me" and everyone realises that is the absolute right thing to do.

And I reckon that bloke is Hayden Young. He just hasn't realised it yet.

Get Chad when he's out of contract for a fair and reasonable price.

Only get Bolton if he's cheap. (And he's not).

But otherwise, go to the draft a bit this year, exploit whoever is willing to give us next year's goodness, and know we still have significant upside internally.

Because Dockeroo is right. We have had a couple of comparatively lean years at the drft and if we have the opportunity to add top-end youth and trade in, we have to do it.

For the SUSTAINED success I know you love.

Yes.
I have had premonitions of young doing ablett juniors things and Tracey doing Jon brown things since they were both first drafted.
They ooze class, have the craft.
These are the 2 guys that will take us to the top and we need to lick them away more than bring anyone else in.

 

[ubiquitous226]

Caveat here on my opinions is I definitely want him in our side. I'm not anti-Chad: But I think there is a genuine discussion to be had about how much you would be prepared to outlay for someone like Warner.

I always felt Fyfe got over-rated a little bit as a midfielder because of his showy contested marking abilities. Was he a great player: Absolutely. Is he an absolute all time great: Not really. I don't think he was clearly superior as an inside midfielder than any of the other top mids of his prime period (Dangerfield, Pendlebury and Selwood had one Browlow between them), but the showiest part of his game differentiated him.

Take his goals out and Warners pure midfield numbers aren't that great (they're still good, but a fair way off*). If we are going to pay a Judd level price I would really want someone who, if Serong is injured and Fyfe retired, we can take out of his forward / mid position and plonk at number 1 inside mid and have him deliver.

Shorter version: Three firsts is too much without something material back. 3 firsts and a future first is bonkers.

*I'm sure some of you will be thinking 'well if he had the opportunity he would be as good'. That's fine, but it's never been tested.

I agree that some of the prices for Warner being talked about are ridiculous.
But the real value that is placed on him is his ability to burst away from stoppage and kick goals, some seriously beneficial traits in the midfield and a good balance to some of our other strengths.
Chad isn't the greatest field kick and has some other weaknesses too, which need to be taken into account.

On Fyfe I disagree a bit, he was elite on the inside in a way that only Selwood could rival, but then had other tools in the kit too.
Fyfe's field kicking used to be better than Dangerfield's, and his contested marking was an absolute weapon for ball movement.
I watched a couple of his peak games recently and it's easy to forget how good he was.

I think the more interesting discussion is how does he compare to the Bont, and I think Fyfe loses that head to head, partially because of longevity and partially because of the all round damage Bont can cause.

 

[Dockeroo]

Caveat here on my opinions is I definitely want him in our side. I'm not anti-Chad: But I think there is a genuine discussion to be had about how much you would be prepared to outlay for someone like Warner.

I always felt Fyfe got over-rated a little bit as a midfielder because of his showy contested marking abilities. Was he a great player: Absolutely. Is he an absolute all time great: Not really. I don't think he was clearly superior as an inside midfielder than any of the other top mids of his prime period (Dangerfield, Pendlebury and Selwood had one Browlow between them), but the showiest part of his game differentiated him.

Take his goals out and Warners pure midfield numbers aren't that great (they're still good, but a fair way off*). If we are going to pay a Judd level price I would really want someone who, if Serong is injured and Fyfe retired, we can take out of his forward / mid position and plonk at number 1 inside mid and have him deliver.

Shorter version: Three firsts is too much without something material back. 3 firsts and a future first is bonkers.

*I'm sure some of you will be thinking 'well if he had the opportunity he would be as good'. That's fine, but it's never been tested.

The three firsts talk is a bit silly I reckon too. If we didn’t have all those picks it wouldn’t be a discussion. No one gets traded for that ever, unless they are all very late firsts.
I think a good trade price ceiling or maximum for any player is actually the equivalent points value of pick 1. I don’t remember a player ever being traded for more than that. Maybe Chris Judd but that’s about it. And wile the Chad is good he’s not Chris Judd good.

 

[theGav56]

I think we need to take at least one good pick in the top 12 in this years draft.
We have basically sat out of 2 drafts in a row now. It does seem we may have got lucky with players like draper in the 2022 rookie draft.
However guys like Emmett, Delean, Wagner, Knobel, Reidy, Murphy, even cooper Simpson are all very unlikely to be elite talents.
Going three drafts in a row without any first round players of genuine quality would start to create a hole in the list that is not dissimilar to the drafts of 2012-2015, and we really need to avoid that if possible.
It really hurts a few years later.

We could walk away with

• Moraes
• Lalor
• Allen
• Berry/Kako/Champion

No downside there.

 

[Duz97]

If Bolton is coming in on $1.3 as reported, I think that will create some discussion amongst players and managers.

You’d think Richmond would pay some of the contract since they would need to pay at least 90% of the salary cap and if everyone that’s rumoured to go leaves they’d be a bit short on that

 

[s_wd6]

I think we need to take at least one good pick in the top 12 in this years draft.
We have basically sat out of 2 drafts in a row now. It does seem we may have got lucky with players like draper in the 2022 rookie draft.
However guys like Emmett, Delean, Wagner, Knobel, Reidy, Murphy, even cooper Simpson are all very unlikely to be elite talents.
Going three drafts in a row without any first round players of genuine quality would start to create a hole in the list that is not dissimilar to the drafts of 2012-2015, and we really need to avoid that if possible.
It really hurts a few years later.

100%. People complain about our list being so young 8 years into the rebuild and fail to realise that it’s the fault of our drafting and development of young players while we were playing well.

 

[theGav56]

100%. People complain about our list being so young 8 years into the rebuild and fail to realise that it’s the fault of our drafting and development of young players while we were playing well.

And the regular loss of players to other clubs.

 

[pK75]

The three firsts talk is a bit silly I reckon too. If we didn’t have all those picks it wouldn’t be a discussion. No one gets traded for that ever, unless they are all very late firsts.
I think a good trade price ceiling or maximum for any player is actually the equivalent points value of pick 1. I don’t remember a player ever being traded for more than that. Maybe Chris Judd but that’s about it. And wile the Chad is good he’s not Chris Judd good.

It really depends on where those 1sts land, if all 3 are in the teens it’s not silly at all, if one is top 10 then you’d want something back, if 2 are top 10 you’d probably want 19 back.

Edit: it will be very interesting to see what the new points system looks like if it’s to drop to 0 by the end of the second round. 3 teens picks may not equal pick 1

 

[Polo342]

Kingy and Cornes on SEN were discussing if Richmond should trade Bolton and Baker to us. They said they would get all 3 of our firsts plus next years. Are they crazy?

 

[Wizard]

Kingy and Cornes on SEN were discussing if Richmond should trade Bolton and Baker to us. They said they would get all 3 of our firsts plus next years. Are they crazy?

I think we would get a second or two back in such a deal.

I don't want Baker anyway but would be happy to send the 3 x 1s out for Bolton on the proviso we got a 2 back.

 

[gaskin]

Kingy and Cornes on SEN were discussing if Richmond should trade Bolton and Baker to us. They said they would get all 3 of our firsts plus next years. Are they crazy?

Yes. There is no world in which combined they are worth 4 first round picks.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Kingy and Cornes on SEN were discussing if Richmond should trade Bolton and Baker to us. They said they would get all 3 of our firsts plus next years. Are they crazy?

I hope we arent that stupid.

I am less and less impressed by him, the more I watch him.

Jeremy Cameron was 3 first rounders, for 13, 17, 20 for 24, 27 and Cameron. Bolton is not in the same league as Cameron

 

[Docker82]

I hope we arent that stupid.

I am less and less impressed by him, the more I watch him.

Jeremy Cameron was 3 first rounders, for 13, 17, 20 for 24, 27 and Cameron. Bolton is not in the same league as Cameron

Damn that's unders for Jeremy Cameron. The value of that trade is no where near the three firsts involved as the second rounders aren't that much later.

I think the value of those second rounders coming back is you still can bring in some 18 year olds to develop. Thing is how much better is the 20th best player than the 24th and 17th than 27th? That'd be for the club to judge if those picks are even in the same draft.