List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets

[Joao]

Kingy and Cornes on SEN were discussing if Richmond should trade Bolton and Baker to us. They said they would get all 3 of our firsts plus next years. Are they crazy?

Yes they are. Nobody is worth 3 straight firsts when at least one is in the 10 range.

No surprise, few media types really have a clue about trades for some reason.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Yes they are. Nobody is worth 3 straight firsts when at least one is in the 10 range.

No surprise, few media types really have a clue about trades for some reason.

The trade can only happen, if Richmond are at least half keen on trading him out.

Otherwise, it will end up like the Gibbs trade, where the crows paid way overs for him.

Personally, I would prefer to avoid bolton all together.

Ideal scenario

2024 - keep picks, maybe trade one for a future first.
- Draft at least one of Kako or Berry, plus two more players with great skills and speed.

2025 - get Warner, for two late 1sts

 

[DragoDelph]

I fully expect that part of the change of direction from Baker is now Bolton is an option. (Even if it is next year).

So we'd still have our offer on the table, but would not be looking to compete with WC or Richmond.

If Baker stays at the tiges. Things get interesting.

Have always thought they'd only want to lose 1 of Baker, Rioli and Bolton.

 

[Joao]

The trade can only happen, if Richmond are at least half keen on trading him out.

Otherwise, it will end up like the Gibbs trade, where the crows paid way overs for him.

Personally, I would prefer to avoid bolton all together.

Ideal scenario

2024 - keep picks, maybe trade one for a future first.
- Draft at least one of Kako or Berry, plus two more players with great skills and speed.

2025 - get Warner, for two late 1sts

Yes I agree it only happens if the Tigers are happy to let him go. Sounds like Yze is open to it so it would take Bolton to request I think. Would still cost our best 2 firsts + shenanigans.

 

[Joao]

I fully expect that part of the change of direction from Baker is now Bolton is an option. (Even if it is next year).

So we'd still have our offer on the table, but would not be looking to compete with WC or Richmond.

If Baker stays at the tiges. Things get interesting.

Have always thought they'd only want to lose 1 of Baker, Rioli and Bolton.

As with Warner, if the Tigers are open to letting Bolton go, this is the year. We're not going to have a draft hand like this for a long time you'd think. They definitely aren't winning a flag in 2025 so its amplified compared to the Swans who have that carrot.

 

[Alfonz]

Caveat here on my opinions is I definitely want him in our side. I'm not anti-Chad: But I think there is a genuine discussion to be had about how much you would be prepared to outlay for someone like Warner.

I always felt Fyfe got over-rated a little bit as a midfielder because of his showy contested marking abilities. Was he a great player: Absolutely. Is he an absolute all time great: Not really. I don't think he was clearly superior as an inside midfielder than any of the other top mids of his prime period (Dangerfield, Pendlebury and Selwood had one Browlow between them), but the showiest part of his game differentiated him.

Take his goals out and Warners pure midfield numbers aren't that great (they're still good, but a fair way off*). If we are going to pay a Judd level price I would really want someone who, if Serong is injured and Fyfe retired, we can take out of his forward / mid position and plonk at number 1 inside mid and have him deliver.

Shorter version: Three firsts is too much without something material back. 3 firsts and a future first is bonkers.

*I'm sure some of you will be thinking 'well if he had the opportunity he would be as good'. That's fine, but it's never been tested.

Disagree on Fyfe. He is most definitely an all time great. The only thing is his peak only lasted for 5 or 6 years, and his legacy is perhaps tainted (unfortunately) by the memory of the last handful of injury plagued years. But that peak (especially 2015 before Mitchell snipered him ... he won a Brownlow from the first 13 games) is as good as any midfielder has ever produced.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Great chats.

• 100% agree discussions on what to give up for Warner are getting out of hand because of the hand we have. It's the same with Bolton and particularly other supporters knowing what we have. That's what tends to happen when you have a haul, the picks can be devalued. Will need to be strong on negotiations where just because we have it, doesn't mean it's available.
• The point on holding picks till draft night is a really good one. In this draft in particular where every team can find someone they love from pick 1 to 30 almost, if there is no Bolton or Warner we take ALL of them into draft night. There's absolutely no reason to do anything before then. We can target exactly who we want AND we can extort someone who had a massive hard on for a particular player.

 

[Joao]

Great chats.

• 100% agree discussions on what to give up for Warner are getting out of hand because of the hand we have. It's the same with Bolton and particularly other supporters knowing what we have. That's what tends to happen when you have haul, the picks can be devalued. Will need to be strong on negotiations where just because we have it, doesn't mean it's available.
• The point on holding picks till draft night is a really good one. In this draft in particular where every team.can find someone they love from pick 1 to 30 almost, if there is no Bolton or Warner we take ALL of them into draft night. There's absolutely no reason to do anything before then. We can target exactly who we want AND we can extort someone who had a massive hard on for a particular player.

100%

We can catch the next Stocker type trade.

 

[theGav56]

Damn that's unders for Jeremy Cameron. The value of that trade is no where near the three firsts involved as the second rounders aren't that much later.

I think the value of those second rounders coming back is you still can bring in some 18 year olds to develop. Thing is how much better is the 20th best player than the 24th and 17th than 27th? That'd be for the club to judge if those picks are even in the same draft.

Kelly is a reasonable comparison to an out of contract Warner, and WC overpaid given the situation.

Rankine similar to Bolton.

Cameron is borderline generational.

 

[Taylor]

If Sheezel has come to the eagles he would have been just as good. Great players don’t put the queue in the rack and sulk for 3 years because they didn’t get to their preferred destination. Name a single elite player that’s ever done that (not tried or played at 100% at their first club) and went on to become a superstar at their next club. JHF maybe but he’s got a way to go yet too. Can’t think of many others.
Schache? I’ve said it before on here but he might be the worst player I’ve ever seen at AFL level when you consider where he was picked. Mccarthy and Boyd had mental demons that prevented them from ever becoming gun players too.

I don’t believe for one second believe that Sheezel or Wardlaw would have been anything other than model pros and gun young players at the eagles.

Boyd was one, I named him before. It's two years, not three, meaning he is out of contract now.

There's no way to know how players would perform outside of their comfort zone. WC believed they were flight risks.

But the biggest point is that if you invest a top three pick in a player you want them to be rewarding the development time for you, not rolling the dice again on other picks who may or may not be any good at all - trading Harley Reid for three top ten picks and all top ten picks turn out to be injured or duds doesn't represent value if the player taken at pick #2 would still be at your club.

 

[Midnite65]

We could walk away with

• Moraes
• Lalor
• Allen
• Berry/Kako/Champion

No downside there.

Won't happen. Players like Erasmus deserve a shot before we draft more midfielders.

 

[Docker82]

Kelly is a reasonable comparison to an out of contract Warner, and WC overpaid given the situation.

Rankine similar to Bolton.

Cameron is borderline generational.

IMO West Coast paid more for Kelly than Cameron.

I say IMO as the value of draft picks is pretty much opinion to a degree and probably is in the real world as well (i.e. different clubs would have different valuations).

 

[theGav56]

Won't happen. Players like Erasmus deserve a shot before we draft more midfielders.

Moraes and Berry could play and have zero impact on Erasmus in terms of opportunity. And Lalor could develop as a forward.

 

[theGav56]

IMO West Coast paid more for Kelly than Cameron.

I say IMO as the value of draft picks is pretty much opinion to a degree and probably is in the real world as well (i.e. different clubs would have different valuations).

Yes fair enough given the second rounders that came with Cameron.

 

[kuhni]

Does anyone else constantly dream about having chosen Nasiah instead? Could've signed us up for the first quadruple premiers.

 

[malpaso]

Does anyone else constantly dream about having chosen Nasiah instead? Could've signed us up for the first quadruple premiers.

Really? Bloke doesn't have a defensive bone in his body..

 

[Duz97]

Think a lot of people are over valuing our picks this year pick 12 will probably end up being in the 20s after all these academy and F/S picks

Bolton and baker together are probably worth pick 18 22 25 which is most likely what the picks will end up being after bids have been accepted

 

[Lach72]

Ya their talent ID has not been great in recent years. It’s not clear cut that Johnson was the player they obviously missed out on instead of Chesser either that year though.

They could have had Michito Owens (who looks a gun and nearly won the rising star last year, went at pick 33), Darcy wilmot, JVR, Conor Mcdonald, Kai Lohmann (who is turning into a ripper for the lions this year) and even Tom Brown at Richmond looks very impressive.
I’ve certainly been a fan of Johnnos work in recent weeks but he’s probably one of 7 or 8 that you could throw a blanket over in that draft after pick 14 that the eagles missed out on.
At this point in think most clubs would still select Owens and JVR ahead of Matt Johnson in a redraft.
Eagles fans would have liked the look of Allan and JVR spearheading their attack for the next decade

I wouldn’t, but I may have in front of Erasmus

 

[Waterhouzin]

If Bolton is coming in on $1.3 as reported, I think that will create some discussion amongst players and managers.

Ii it is going ahead I would guess that we would do both of;
A) Extend his contract and hence level out the payments a bit in doing so, and
B) Offer up juicy enough picks so that the Tigers pay some of his first year or two wages - as mentioned before on this thread, they’ll struggle to reach the mandatory 95% of payments anyway, they may as well swap cap space for picks rather than pay a C grader on their list above odds.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Cobbler]

This is ridiculous. I’ve seen the under 10’s and they are a bunch of short people who can barely hit a target.

You must be watching the U10s associated to the Eagles…

 

[vidwhal]

Caveat here on my opinions is I definitely want him in our side. I'm not anti-Chad: But I think there is a genuine discussion to be had about how much you would be prepared to outlay for someone like Warner.

I always felt Fyfe got over-rated a little bit as a midfielder because of his showy contested marking abilities. Was he a great player: Absolutely. Is he an absolute all time great: Not really. I don't think he was clearly superior as an inside midfielder than any of the other top mids of his prime period (Dangerfield, Pendlebury and Selwood had one Browlow between them), but the showiest part of his game differentiated him.

Take his goals out and Warners pure midfield numbers aren't that great (they're still good, but a fair way off*). If we are going to pay a Judd level price I would really want someone who, if Serong is injured and Fyfe retired, we can take out of his forward / mid position and plonk at number 1 inside mid and have him deliver.

Shorter version: Three firsts is too much without something material back. 3 firsts and a future first is bonkers.

*I'm sure some of you will be thinking 'well if he had the opportunity he would be as good'. That's fine, but it's never been tested.

I'm reading this in Pavlich's boundary commentary voice, cos seems fitting. How many mids have two Charlies?

 

[DragoDelph]

I'm reading this in Pavlich's boundary commentary voice, cos seems fitting. How many mids have two Charlies?

Could have had four.

 

[Boomer93]

I like the Chad. In fact, he was my number 1 pick in his draft year. He has exceeded even my expectations. Because he is allowed to cheat forward. He still kicks the goals from midfield - which is tough - and his GF was sensational, so I know he's more than a fruitfly.

But if we're to looking to add not just some cream on the cake but a genuine alpha who is convinced every time he touches the pill he can and will turn the game, we need to get it absolutley right before we trade more than 2 first-round picks.

Baker isn't even cream on the cake. He's ****ing kiwi fruit or halfprice strawberries. He was part of an excellent cake but we already have a pretty decent cake.

Bolton is cream. I warm more to the idea of the Dockeriest father-son arrangement every time I see him sit on someone's head or kick 4.3 in a losing side.

But I reckon, and I have been known to be wrong, that we need a mature and consistent big dog, who says "Give it to me" and everyone realises that is the absolute right thing to do.

And I reckon that bloke is Hayden Young. He just hasn't realised it yet.

Get Chad when he's out of contract for a fair and reasonable price.

Only get Bolton if he's cheap. (And he's not).

But otherwise, go to the draft a bit this year, exploit whoever is willing to give us next year's goodness, and know we still have significant upside internally.

Because Dockeroo is right. We have had a couple of comparatively lean years at the drft and if we have the opportunity to add top-end youth and trade in, we have to do it.

For the SUSTAINED success I know you love.

This has gotta be some memory failure lol

If you really had Chad as your number 1 pick that year you are some kind of wizard.

Have you got any posts on bigfooty of you making that call, wpuld be wildly impressed if you did.

 

[SoS12]

I think there's a couple of interesting points that haven't been discussed in too much depth and probably because we're still uncertain of how trading and drafting will work this season and beyond.

The movement of one or more of our first-round picks to 2025 is not just a worthwhile plan due to Warner (although it seems incredibly likely he will ask to go home next season) but for the fact we have some very promising NGA kids like Rodriguez and Hart who could be gettable under new draft matching criteria. Having some extra currency next year to get a Warner deal done while also either getting ahead of bids for NGA kids or matching them would be huge.

On the viability of trading this season, I know everyone wants to top up the talented young side we have but I don't think it should be at the cost of everything or overpaying unless the talent is incredible. There are some hugely inflated trade prices going around and Warner is the only player who justifies them.

Baker is simply not a lock for our best 22 and not so much that you'd give away a first round pick for the improvement over players in our existing 22. There are numerous downsides to Baker that have been covered at length to remove him from our sights for this season. The main goal is pumping up his price for the Eagles.

Bolton would be a nice addition that would take over from Sonny very comfortably but it's a bit of a pipe dream. The only way it works is if the Tigers are reasonable in negotiations and looking to find both cap space and trade capital to rebuild. Freo couldn't afford to give up any more than a first round pick for him and would need to renegotiate his contract well below what it is or have Richmond take on a large portion of it. I don't think that's going to happen and the cost to our total player payments and large amount of draft capital to make that deal happen is simply not worth it. You're far better off developing our existing players, going to the draft for young talent or going after a Motlop next season (or the quick development of Hart next season).

Warner is the wildcard, he is worth a minimum of 2 first round picks (in the 10-15 region or higher) and probably needs a third to make a realistic bid while he's under contract. I don't see Sydney taking it but who knows if you don't try. He'd be a massive boost to the side and is a proven talent who is still incredibly young and could play at a high level for a decade. I fail to see how we could lose out in that deal tbh, regardless of if the picks traded turned into jets. The current improvement to our side and its premiership chances is a huge leap that makes it worthwhile.

 

[Quay Club]

If we can't get the Chad this year I would be happy with taking two first rounders this year and bank the other for another go at Chad next year.

We would get a couple of nice players for the future prior to Tassie coming in.

With our young squad we have some natural improvement left AKA Young and Treacy have this year.

I love Bolton as a footballer when he is on but he can be inconsistent and I am not sure he fits our no dickhead policy.

Baker has West Coast written all over him.