2024 Offseason Thread - NBA Draft June 27/8

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Here's their splits from the 22/23 season, when OKC were a .500 team. Doesn't look like zero to me. They gave the Thunder a combined 2700 minutes that season too. That's two full seasons of consistent results - actually three full seasons in Wiggins's case. Given the Thunder have progressed from 24 wins to 57 wins in that timeframe, it's probably safe to assume that they and Sam Presti have some idea what they're doing.


View attachment 2037853

View attachment 2037854



OKC just added a guy who is the poster child for not letting your discovered talent get away - Alex Caruso. Ask Lakers fans how they feel about how LA handled that one. Caruso averaged single digit points per game too.

I don't think KCP at $22 mil is worse value than Joe/Wiggins at a combined $19 mil. But they get two players instead of one, two players who they've developed. And if it's a direct either/or, I don't think they could have signed both Hartenstein and KCP as free agents outright, at least not without cutting some salary. Whereas they can re-sign their own guys and go over the cap, no problem.

As for Kyle Anderson, he's almost 31, has clearly hit his ceiling, and isn't a three point threat. I don't think Wiggins is 'better' at this point, but he's six years younger, part of the 'program', and a better shooter. As far as I can tell they'll be making about the same salary, so I don't think OKC are saying he's 'better' either.

As for Joe's output - well, let's see what Buddy Hield gets. There's mail that the Dubs are trying to work out a sign and trade deal for him. I suspect he'll receive in the $9-12 mil range, which would make him comparable with Joe's $10.7 mil for this season. And before you say Buddy is clearly better - compare last year's numbers, and ask yourself whether perception matches reality?



Their bench was good last season. Hartenstein is clearly envisioned as more than a 10-15 mins strict reserve role, so it's a tad disingenuous to call him a 'bench player' - he played 1900 mins for the Knicks this season, plus heavy playoff mins.

Kenrich Williams - I presume that's who you mean by Williams? - is actually underrated too. Really good defensively. If the Thunder put him up for trade, which is eminently possible, you'd be surprised by how many takers there would be.

As for Dieng - well, he's a lottery pick, same as Cason Wallace, and same as Topic when he eventually plays. Having lottery picks filling out your lower bench positions isn't a problem, it's a luxury.

Finally, none of this prevents them making other moves down the line. It just means they won't be able to be part of the free agency periods for the next couple of seasons, but really who cares? It's Oklahoma. In a lot of cases, your Hartensteins are about as good as you're going to do in Oklahoma. It certainly doesn't preclude them from making future trades though. In many cases selling teams are looking for young pieces with room for growth on cost controlled contracts to take back, and the Thunder now have an abundance of such pieces. Plus a billion excess future draft picks.

Those stat lines are not worth the money paid. Even you are saying it will depend on future output and improvement for them to reach that worth. If OKC are meant to be in a window of contending then they need to aim higher then keeping these two if you ask me. Now is the time to get a 31 year old like Kyle Anderson who is a superior player to Aaron Wiggins who is in a logjam for minutes anyway really with Caruso who will play more then Giddey did as well as Wallace/Joe etc

When you have 3 guards and every single one of them has the same explanatio of "they are a good defender" then perhaps you have a logjam. You look at OKCs bench and who on that bench is putting up 20 points a game ? Who is coming off that bench to pick up 6-8 assists a game, Who do you trust to make their own shot even. Its a bench that lacks diversity and scoring. Every single person knows OKC need more scoring optioons. Its why Markannen is the perfect fit. Rather then get more scoring, they have just leaned into this ultra defensive list of role players at SF/SG which does nothing but turn SGA into OKC Luka Doncic who is running the show without any help/Kyrie Irving to take some of the pressure off. Its not going to end well come playoff time

I feel like they can still make trades but Joe/Wiggins contracts will be negatives in any trade and will mean moee first rounders are needed to be tacked onto any trade.

If OKC going to just overpay players because its OKC, they probably wont end up winning a title. Need to stick the course and go the path to a championship rather then just overpaying a bunch of middling players and hoping they become the next Derick White

I guess I just expect and want OKC to aim higher then this mostly. All of these moves just feels like a team who is ready to waste 2025 because they havnt improved by enough to win a title

 

[Slysh]

Derozan still available? Assume he's not coming then

Lakers play in at absolute best. Such a shame LBJ is prioritizing $ over trying to win at the end. Wish he'd get another ring but that's zero chance now

They had no one really that was going to turn them in to a contender no matter how much less he took the only chance of him getting more rings is leaving the Lakers.

He decided if they aren’t going to be able to put a title contender around him he might as well get his money, can’t blame him.

 

[burge13]

They had no one really that was going to turn them in to a contender no matter how much less he took the only chance of him getting more rings is leaving the Lakers.

He decided if they aren’t going to be able to put a title contender around him he might as well get his money, can’t blame him.

Agree 100% which I wish he'd have done. The guy doesn't need $. Imagine he went and teamed up with Jokic/SGA/Luka/Ant on much less and won another. Be fun to watch, instead the goat is cruising to a play in loss and another wasted season

The reason so few agree to him being the goat, which he is, is because he hasn't won enough rings. Go get them. He's sabotaged himself as LeGM but it's maddening as a Bron fan he's wasted so many years in a nothing team

 

[Slysh]

Agree 100% which I wish he'd have done. The guy doesn't need $. Imagine he went and teamed up with Jokic/SGA/Luka/Ant on much less and won another. Be fun to watch, instead the goat is cruising to a play in loss and another wasted season

The reason so few agree to him being the goat, which he is, is because he hasn't won enough rings. Go get them. He's sabotaged himself as LeGM but it's maddening as a Bron fan he's wasted so many years in a nothing team

Also a huge fan and I’d love to watch him play on a contender for his last good years, but the guy has priorities outside of just basketball. Clearly living in LA is a big one for him, can’t blame a 40 year old for having things he wants to accomplish outside of the NbA as much as it sucks for us.

 

[burge13]

Also a huge fan and I’d love to watch him play on a contender for his last good years, but the guy has priorities outside of just basketball. Clearly living in LA is a big one for him, can’t blame a 40 year old for having things he wants to accomplish outside of the NbA as much as it sucks for us.

True again. Why should we care if he doesn't I guess

 

[hamG]

They had no one really that was going to turn them in to a contender no matter how much less he took the only chance of him getting more rings is leaving the Lakers.

He decided if they aren’t going to be able to put a title contender around him he might as well get his money, can’t blame him.

His team mates should be taking the pay cuts, Lebron actually earns that $50m despite being a million years old.

 

[Magnum27]

I'm not sure that he has to prove anything to anyone, whilst i don't get involved in who is the GOAT debate, i'm not sure how you can judge one better than the other, too many variances in regards to when they played the game.

Winning titles should only be one part of their resume, but not the be all of judging a player, some players who are pretty good have got zero, whilst others who have been in the right place at the right time have multiples.

He is a superstar of the game, and of you don't enjoy watching him play, other than the flopping, then you are not a true basketball fan.

I don't look for a GOAT, i prefer to look at as the best 5 players i have watched in my time, and they are Magic, Jordan, Bird, Lebron and Shaq.

 

[burge13]

I'm not sure that he has to prove anything to anyone, whilst i don't get involved in who is the GOAT debate, i'm not sure how you can judge one better than the other, too many variances in regards to when they played the game.

Winning titles should only be one part of their resume, but not the be all of judging a player, some players who are pretty good have got zero, whilst others who have been in the right place at the right time have multiples.

He is a superstar of the game, and of you don't enjoy watching him play, other than the flopping, then you are not a true basketball fan.

I don't look for a GOAT, i prefer to look at as the best 5 players i have watched in my time, and they are Magic, Jordan, Bird, Lebron and Shaq.

Joe Ingles very unlucky to finish 6th I assume

 

[peternorth]

Agree 100% which I wish he'd have done. The guy doesn't need $. Imagine he went and teamed up with Jokic/SGA/Luka/Ant on much less and won another. Be fun to watch, instead the goat is cruising to a play in loss and another wasted season

The reason so few agree to him being the goat, which he is, is because he hasn't won enough rings. Go get them. He's sabotaged himself as LeGM but it's maddening as a Bron fan he's wasted so many years in a nothing team

From (to quote cold chisel) "the outside looking in", he or any nba player dont need the money. However, maybe they do. Yes they have multiple properties, jets, cars etc. But they may also have mortgages, loans to pay, people to pay (shhhh). As exuberance increases, so does cost. Relatively.

I'm not sure that he has to prove anything to anyone, whilst i don't get involved in who is the GOAT debate, i'm not sure how you can judge one better than the other, too many variances in regards to when they played the game.

Winning titles should only be one part of their resume, but not the be all of judging a player, some players who are pretty good have got zero, whilst others who have been in the right place at the right time have multiples.

He is a superstar of the game, and of you don't enjoy watching him play, other than the flopping, then you are not a true basketball fan.

I don't look for a GOAT, i prefer to look at as the best 5 players i have watched in my time, and they are Magic, Jordan, Bird, Lebron and Shaq.

And if titles are say the metric, then bill russell has 11 so he the goat.

Russell > Horry > Jordan/Kareem > Kobe/Duncan/Coops/Magic/Kerr/Ronny Harper/D Fish > Shaq/Curry/Manu/Parker

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Those stat lines are not worth the money paid. Even you are saying it will depend on future output and improvement for them to reach that worth. If OKC are meant to be in a window of contending then they need to aim higher then keeping these two if you ask me. Now is the time to get a 31 year old like Kyle Anderson who is a superior player to Aaron Wiggins who is in a logjam for minutes anyway really with Caruso who will play more then Giddey did as well as Wallace/Joe etc

You're getting caught up on counting stats, which is why I gave you both their per 36 and on/off numbers. Caruso's counting numbers don't look all that impressive either, but everyone knows his value. And no, I don't think Caruso will play more than Giddey. They'll try to keep his minutes low, partly because he's slightly injury prone, and partly to maximise his effectiveness as an on-ball defender.

Let's see what Buddy Hield, Luke Kennard and Gary Trent Jr land as contracts, and then we can compare that to Joe. I think they're fair comparisons, they're all volume bombers, and from what I've seen Joe is the best defender of the lot.

As for Kyle Anderson, they don't need him. Their minutes at the four will be eaten up by Jalen Williams, probably a bit of Holmgren, and Kenrich Williams. And they certainly don't need a SF who is an iffy shooter.

They had two roster imperatives this off-season - find another big, and fix the Giddey situation. They've done both. Whether they've done so optimally is in the eye of the beholder, but they got probably the best big available. There's really not a lot available in free agency this year that could've accelerated their timeline.

When you have 3 guards and every single one of them has the same explanatio of "they are a good defender" then perhaps you have a logjam. You look at OKCs bench and who on that bench is putting up 20 points a game ? Who is coming off that bench to pick up 6-8 assists a game, Who do you trust to make their own shot even. Its a bench that lacks diversity and scoring. Every single person knows OKC need more scoring optioons. Its why Markannen is the perfect fit. Rather then get more scoring, they have just leaned into this ultra defensive list of role players at SF/SG which does nothing but turn SGA into OKC Luka Doncic who is running the show without any help/Kyrie Irving to take some of the pressure off. Its not going to end well come playoff time

I think they need another shot creator too. But they have multiple avenues to finding one, and free agency - especially THIS year's free agency - was the always the least likely.

Their current wings are not all facsimiles of each other though. Joe is a flat-out shooter. Wiggins is probably closer to a Dort type, but it seems to work in the Thunder's system.

They can definitely trade for another shot creator. They may also be planning to hit the draft heavily next year. I think they potentially have four first round picks in an allegedly strong draft.

I feel like they can still make trades but Joe/Wiggins contracts will be negatives in any trade and will mean moee first rounders are needed to be tacked onto any trade.

What you need to understand is that they now have multiple 'expendable' contracts that they can now send out in a trade if they find someone available who they like. And I'm not sure either the Wiggins or Joe contracts are negatives.

Let's take the Jazz and Danny Ainge, re Markkanen - if they trade Markkanen, they're obviously going full rebuild. What do rebuilding teams want in trade packages? Draft picks obviously, but also young players tied down to contracts which they can potentially outperform. It's what Markkanen himself was when the Cavs sent him to Utah in the Mitchell trade.

I'm not saying that Joe or Wiggins will ever get anywhere near Markkanen's level as players. But they're young, have skillsets that are in demand, not ball dominant and could conceivably outperform their contracts. I'm surprised they got 4/5 year deals as well, but perhaps Presti has an idea about what the NBA cap is going to look like 4 years from now.

If OKC going to just overpay players because its OKC, they probably wont end up winning a title. Need to stick the course and go the path to a championship rather then just overpaying a bunch of middling players and hoping they become the next Derick White

I guess I just expect and want OKC to aim higher then this mostly. All of these moves just feels like a team who is ready to waste 2025 because they havnt improved by enough to win a title

Overpaying players because of the 'Oklahoma tax' is precisely why they were never likely to rely on free agency to build their team. They only spent on Hartenstein because he filled a very specific roster hole at a very specific juncture.

They're keeping their guys because, presumably, they both know and thrive in their system, and also because they see them as minimum net neutral future trade ballast, in theory. If and when they do make a big trade, they won't want to be sending out any of their 'core' - it'll be expendable, complementary pieces. And to that end it's very difficult to argue that signing a 31 year old Kyle Anderson makes sense over betting on their young guys. Frankly, outside of PG13 or LeBron, there was really nobody feasibly available in free agency who could have elevated their 2025 ceiling greatly anyway.

 

[peternorth]

 

[Magnum27]

From (to quote cold chisel) "the outside looking in", he or any nba player dont need the money. However, maybe they do. Yes they have multiple properties, jets, cars etc. But they may also have mortgages, loans to pay, people to pay (shhhh). As exuberance increases, so does cost. Relatively.



And if titles are say the metric, then bill russell has 11 so he the goat.

Russell > Horry > Jordan/Kareem > Kobe/Duncan/Coops/Magic/Kerr/Ronny Harper/D Fish > Shaq/Curry/Manu/Parker

Yeh that is why you cannot just include titles.

 

[peternorth]

Yeh that is why you cannot just include titles.

Especially across eras. Early NBA there were a handful of teams, and most players worked 9-5 jobs or were at best fill ins.

 

[burge13]

Reminds me of when a Brazilian teenager signs for a mid table EPL club and he says it was his dream to play there in the press conference. Lots of Birmingham shirts in the favelas!

 

[mumblingpie]

Is it safe to say that if Bronny does actually turn into something decent then it doesn’t really take a lot of talent to be a baller but more just getting the opportunity

 

[Nicho50]

I think the Knicks have shown it’s all about getting the team to gel rather than just getting big names in.

It’s all well and good on paper to say PG is going to Philly and they will be one of the strongest teams in the east but will the team gel and it actually work? Plenty of flops with other big names of late.

I think Klay will fit in at Dallas good but I’m not sure about PG at Philly.

Shattered to lose I Hart. I’d prefer him over Robinson but then again Robinson was injury plagued last year so if he can get fit who knows. Good pick up for OKC though for sure.

 

[burge13]

Is it safe to say that if Bronny does actually turn into something decent then it doesn’t really take a lot of talent to be a baller but more just getting the opportunity

I knew my absence of pro career had nothing to do with a lack of ability but a lack of opportunity!

 

[Slysh]

I think the Knicks have shown it’s all about getting the team to gel rather than just getting big names in.

It’s all well and good on paper to say PG is going to Philly and they will be one of the strongest teams in the east but will the team gel and it actually work? Plenty of flops with other big names of late.

I think Klay will fit in at Dallas good but I’m not sure about PG at Philly.

Shattered to lose I Hart. I’d prefer him over Robinson but then again Robinson was injury plagued last year so if he can get fit who knows. Good pick up for OKC though for sure.

I think the fit is really good, a two way wing that can create his own shot and knock down shots from the Perimeter is perfect to pair with Maxey and Embiid.

My question is whether they can fill out the rest of the roster well enough.

 

[Magnum27]

Especially across eras. Early NBA there were a handful of teams, and most players worked 9-5 jobs or were at best fill ins.

Aldo different game styles, a fair bit physical in the 80's compared now.

 

[philthy05]

I would be very interested to see how many shots go up in a game now versus other eras


Games are so much faster and so little of the shot clock is used on many plays the eye says a lot more shots must be going up than previous eras.


And if so that tells me that more shots = more points. 25 points would have to be the old 20 points etc. (I don’t know that exactly just round numbers)

Also has to push up assist and rebound numbers.

My eye also tells me that guards getting high rebound numbers also coincided with the much faster pace of shots going up.

 

[peternorth]

Reminds me of when a Brazilian teenager signs for a mid table EPL club and he says it was his dream to play there in the press conference. Lots of Birmingham shirts in the favelas!

ill never forget jorginho signing with middlesborough.....

 

[Memphis]

I don’t think anyone is surprised by these statements anymore.

 

[Memphis]

 

[stewie griffen]

I don't look for a GOAT, i prefer to look at as the best 5 players i have watched in my time, and they are Magic, Jordan, Bird, Lebron and Shaq.

Not Andrew Gaze, Phil Smyth, Mark Davis, Brett Maher and Andrew Vlahov?

 

[stewie griffen]

ill never forget jorginho signing with middlesborough.....

Juninho?

I'll never forget George Weahs cousin