Training 2024 Preseason reports and discussion

[Strapping Young Lad]

I don't really get what you mean... the heavy losses were highly predictable the year after cutting so much experience, and being without the player we could least afford to lose in Lewis at the start of the year. We had games where we got blown away and we couldn't handle it (Bombers, Swans, Freo), had games that we were highly competitive but were desperately unlucky not to get over the line (GWS, Crows), games where we played well in a half to show some good signs (Dogs at Marvel), and games we won that no one predicted (Pies, Lions, Dogs in Tas, and Saints at Marvel first time). The upside in those positive moments is exactly what you want to see from a rebuilding side, a clear direction forward and a game style, and a group of youth taking us places. It doesn't make any sense to focus on predictable blow outs... of course we want to lessen the gap between our best and worst going forward, that goes without saying.

He means he didnt like them.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

That game was helped by a complete dominance in the centre square. Meant that even when Collingwood kicked a goal their next bit of play started from half back at best.

Not going to get that much dominance in the middle that often

Or are we?

 

[hawkman]

Or are we?

If we go 18-3 out of middle each week, we aren't losing a game next year

 

[Topiary]

I don't really get what you mean... the heavy losses were highly predictable the year after cutting so much experience, and being without the player we could least afford to lose in Lewis at the start of the year. We had games where we got blown away and we couldn't handle it (Bombers, Swans, Freo), had games that we were highly competitive but were desperately unlucky not to get over the line (GWS, Crows), games where we played well in a half to show some good signs (Dogs at Marvel), and games we won that no one predicted (Pies, Lions, Dogs in Tas, and Saints at Marvel first time). The upside in those positive moments is exactly what you want to see from a rebuilding side, a clear direction forward and a game style, and a group of youth taking us places. It doesn't make any sense to focus on predictable blow outs... of course we want to lessen the gap between our best and worst going forward, that goes without saying.

Just let me make it quite clear, the adjustment during the year was made because of the poor performance of the team. The coaches did not countenance the excuse of age or inexperience. We definitely improved.

 

[cs61]

Just let me make it quite clear, the adjustment during the year was made because of the poor performance of the team. The coaches did not countenance the excuse of age or inexperience. We definitely improved.

Of course the coaches didn't accept massive losses... giving an appraisal as a supporter is a bit different than the messaging I'd expect from the coaching staff.... But at the same time McCartney pre-season predicted we'd be a lot more competitive in the second half of the season than the first where there would be some tough moments, so it was hardly unexpected from their end either.

 

[Topiary]

Of course the coaches didn't accept massive losses... giving an appraisal as a supporter is a bit different than the messaging I'd expect from the coaching staff.... But at the same time McCartney pre-season predicted we'd be a lot more competitive in the second half of the season than the first where there would be some tough moments, so it was hardly unexpected from their end either.

Yes I agree, but the supporter view of writing the year off or accepting losses due to attitude was not accepted by the coaches. In my view, it was the right response.
At the end of the day, I think we are agreeing to an extent.

 

[TylerDurden]

Reeves is only going to get more dominant with experience, and all of our mids are still young and have improvement left in them.

 

[MasterSamurai]

It's our work without the ball that was a bit concerning. Even in our thrashings , lot of our mids and half backs won a lot of the ball, so getting it wasn't the problem, the full defence against opposition ball movement was the biggest concern. This aspect of our game could be put down to our rather quite young and relatively inexperienced midfield group but they will have to learn to adjust with more games together. Need to work on doubling down on team defence to stem the tide, if we can do that in a couple of games and win, it'll go a long way for our group to have a bit of steel about them. 2024 will be an interesting watch. Blow outs won't be expected as much.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Reeves is only going to get more dominant with experience, and all of our mids are still young and have improvement left in them.

Heaps of improvement left in the midfield and the forward line in particular. None of the potential long term players have really hit their peak years, with Nash, Lewis, Moore, Chol, Worpel all just entering them now.

 

[HedgeFund]

Buckenara had some real pace, and was a little more dynamic. Lost a lot after doing a knee, but he was the competitions best half forward flank and a part time on baller before his injury.

Gary Buckenara was 6 inches shorter than Hustwaite and the VFL games he played in….are totally different to the way AFL football is played 40 years later.

 

[bigmaxi]

Gary Buckenara was 6 inches shorter than Hustwaite and the VFL games he played in….are totally different to the way AFL football is played 40 years later.

But how big were his hands

 

[toomanysquibs]

Gary Buckenara was 6 inches shorter than Hustwaite and the VFL games he played in….are totally different to the way AFL football is played 40 years later.

Footy is also faster, not slower than it was then. Leg speed is more, not less important.

They're just different players in every sense of the word.

I'm not sure why you would argue against that point. It's like suggesting Mitch Lewis is Jason Dunstall because they both play FF.

 

[toomanysquibs]

It's already happened. Just watch the Pies game again.

Seems like some of our own fans don't realize we're an all out attack side, and that's our point of difference – to win the ball more and score more heavily than our opponent.

Going to turn the comp on its head as we continue to improve.

 

[Brishawk]

Seems like some of our own fans don't realize we're an all out attack side, and that's our point of difference – to win the ball more and score more heavily than our opponent.

Going to turn the comp on its head as we continue to improve.

You say that but we scored the third least points across the whole comp in 2023. We scored 29 points more than north, who have one forward. After round 11, we averged 76 points. From round 1-11 we averaged 70 points. We improved but we still need to find easier paths to goal. Had we averaged 76 points per game all year we would still have the third worst points for all season. We look great when it all comes together though!

We may aspire to attacking football but we are not there yet outside a few games. Meanwhile our defence was also the third worst and our percentage is the third worst. The good signs in some games need to coalesce around greater consistency. We also need better depth to cover injuries to key players. We look totally different with lewis than without him. A lot to be hopeful for though.

 

[KermitJagger]

We got absolutely smashed and were uncompetitive in eight games this season, and lost by between five to six goals in four other games.

I understand that it's all part of the growing pains of a young team, especially one that tries to be aggressive. But I hope this off season there is a focus on developing a way to stem the tide in games when we are getting overrun.

We did already, honestly. Night and day between early and late season Hawks in terms of momentum swings. I'm hoping we can progress with that, and I don't see much reason why we couldn't.

This season we weren't just young, we were young in vital positions and the youngest team since Brissie in 2017. That level of inexperience almost always correlates with massive inconsistency, particularly when the same side has just traded out their two most experienced mids.

 

[Rowie6]

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Nash goes to another level. He has been elite at every sport he has played. Clearly has the work ethic and discipline, I don’t think we’ve seen his ceiling yet.

I am of this opinion as well I see he is a big man still learning his craft!
I see Nashy as a guy that may keep improving when other guys his own age may plateau?
Hopefully!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[threesixpio]

Buckenara had some real pace, and was a little more dynamic. Lost a lot after doing a knee, but he was the competitions best half forward flank and a part time on baller before his injury.

I don't know who you could compare Hustwaite too at this early stage, but he's got the smooth moves and footy brain to do well in the midfield. Might be tougher for him to thrive as a forward.

Definitely ope he does make it though, he seems to bring a point of difference to a team heavy on grunt, but lighter on center square ballerinas who can open things up by dancing through traffic and making time stand still around them.

Was my favourite as a kid

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Seems like some of our own fans don't realize we're an all out attack side, and that's our point of difference – to win the ball more and score more heavily than our opponent.

Going to turn the comp on its head as we continue to improve.

From Round 10, Hawthorn were 9th in the comp for Quarters won. During that period we played 9 games against the eventual finalists and knocked off the Dogs.

Remember when we “gutted the midfield” and “the youngsters will struggle to run out the season”? The stats below show that the youngsters and the side as a whole continued to push hard even against much more fancied sides.

I’m just going to keep this post as a template for the naysayers who don’t want to allow others to dream of what 2024 could bring*.




*no, I’m not talking about a flag.

 

[HedgeFund]

Based on that photo, he also seems to grown a lot taller

Clearly 8 inches taller than Ramsden now. Maybe Ramsden has shrunk?

 

[toomanysquibs]

I hadn't seen the Hun piece till you posted it, but at times it looked like we relished the challenge against the better sides, but went to sleep at times against the also rans. Young sides do that, so no surprises there.

But not surprised to see the stats match the eye test.

This was a far better season than the win loss ration suggests, particularly in light of the tanking claims. Re-tooled the midfield in one year, in a way that looks incredibly rock solid with room for more natural growth again.

From Round 10, Hawthorn were 9th in the comp for Quarters won. During that period we played 9 games against the eventual finalists and knocked off the Dogs.

Remember when we “gutted the midfield” and “the youngsters will struggle to run out the season”? The stats below show that the youngsters and the side as a whole continued to push hard even against much more fancied sides.

I’m just going to keep this post as a template for the naysayers who don’t want to allow others to dream of what 2024 could bring*.


*no, I’m not talking about a flag.

 

[toomanysquibs]

You say that but we scored the third least points across the whole comp in 2023. We scored 29 points more than north, who have one forward. After round 11, we averged 76 points. From round 1-11 we averaged 70 points. We improved but we still need to find easier paths to goal. Had we averaged 76 points per game all year we would still have the third worst points for all season. We look great when it all comes together though!

We may aspire to attacking football but we are not there yet outside a few games. Meanwhile our defence was also the third worst and our percentage is the third worst. The good signs in some games need to coalesce around greater consistency. We also need better depth to cover injuries to key players. We look totally different with lewis than without him. A lot to be hopeful for though.

Definitely don''t think the finished product is there, but all signs at the deeper level point to what I said being 100 percent accurate.

That's the plan. See SYL's post for more evidence of that than the eye test I used.

We prioritize winning the ball and scoring over defense. That's our game for now, and probably the long term focus.

 

[HedgeFund]

From Round 10, Hawthorn were 9th in the comp for Quarters won. During that period we played 9 games against the eventual finalists and knocked off the Dogs.

Remember when we “gutted the midfield” and “the youngsters will struggle to run out the season”? The stats below show that the youngsters and the side as a whole continued to push hard even against much more fancied sides.

I’m just going to keep this post as a template for the naysayers who don’t want to allow others to dream of what 2024 could bring*.


View attachment 1846278

*no, I’m not talking about a flag.

I’ve no issue with optimism, and yes that was a very good month of attacking football during which we won 3 and lost 2 games (4 of which were against decent opposition).

It was definitely pleasing.

Do I think we will inevitably repeat that, multiple times, in 2024?

Not confident, but I have my fingers crossed.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I’ve no issue with optimism, and yes that was a very good month of attacking football during which we won 3 and lost 2 games (4 of which were against decent opposition).

It was definitely pleasing.

Do I think we will inevitably repeat that, multiple times, in 2024?

Not confident, but I have my fingers crossed.

The coaches will know that standard we set in the last month of 2023 is the baseline for 2024. Would be amazed if they didn't.

We should also have a relatively good draw, having placed 16th.

 

[Topiary]

The coaches will know that standard we set in the last month of 2023 is the baseline for 2024. Would be amazed if they didn't.

We should also have a relatively good draw, having placed 16th.

The coaches will want improvement and consistency. Just get better.

 

[Topiary]

I hadn't seen the Hun piece till you posted it, but at times it looked like we relished the challenge against the better sides, but went to sleep at times against the also rans. Young sides do that, so no surprises there.

But not surprised to see the stats match the eye test.

This was a far better season than the win loss ration suggests, particularly in light of the tanking claims. Re-tooled the midfield in one year, in a way that looks incredibly rock solid with room for more natural growth again.

Don’t worry about the tanking BS. Just a w***er with no knowledge suggesting it.