List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[stavro#4]

 

[Pardon me]

Pick 25 for a player they benched more than played is a steal. Take it and run.

 

[SinCitySainter]

The AFL rules don’t cover the bidding system to the detail of when a club can trade their next selection immediately once they are on the clock. And as someone else mentioned that’s the key to everything - if we bid at 8, then if they can trade 9 back or out, it’s all moot.

But I can’t imagine it’s even a discussion between us and them if they could do that. And in the GWS and Sydney situation, I doubt that GWS would have held that very next pick if they could have traded out. But they do things differently and perhaps they were happier to burn that rather than disrupting any following picks.

I can't imagine you are allowed to dump your next pick after a bid comes in.
If that was the case why would any club trade out of the first round before a bid comes in, it simply makes no sense.
There will always be someone willing to take a first-round pick so trading it out wouldn't be difficult on the night.

I personally think we should offer our F1 to Freo for 10.
Forget Essendon Freo need future FRDPs to go after Warner they would probably do a straight swap.

 

[akaifu]

Just how I see the draft play out.

Tigers - Jaggar Smith
Norf - Levi Ashcroft (f/s)
Norf - Armstrong
WC - Langford / Bo Allan
Crows - Draper
Melb - Lalor / Tauru / Langford / Reid
Tigers (GC - Rioli) - Tauru / Reid / Lalor
Saints - Kako / O’Sullivan
Saints - Tauru / Smille / Lalor
Saints - pick swap GWS #15 and #16


#15 Saints - Jack Ough
#16 Saints - Whitlock / Hotton / Trainer

I like it, quite different to the template. I think Ough is a bit high especially if we take Smillie

Mine is:

1. FOS (RICH)
2. Ashcroft (BRIS)
3. Lalor (RICH)
4. Draper (WCE)
5. Jagga (ADEL)
6. Reid/Armstrong (MELB)
7. Tauru (NM)
8. Lombard (GC)
9. Smillie (STK)
10. Kako (ESS)
11. Langford/Lindsay (STK)
12. Travaglia (STK)

 

[Sol Goodman]

I just feel at times it's a bit of an echo chamber in here, and probably rightly so when we all want the best thing for the St Kilda football club. If we get this done I'll be rapt, but I just assume there will be plenty of other interested parties.

Also congrats on the bub Stav, currently holding a 2.5 week old boy myself! Great times

Congratulations

 

[Joffaboy]

I think it's more the giving away of this year's mid 2nd round pick in a really good draft...

It was a free pick from GWS last year anyway.
People get het up about dp's 12 months from now.
The day after the draft, if anyone told us we had 7+8 and possibly 9, everyone would have thought, yeah nar, or we traded out an absolute gun.
Who knows what we have next year, we might live trade again Steele might want to go, a whole range of possibilities
Anyway can trade two years ahead from next draft.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Nope, they'd get Kako first, then use Carltons pick 12 and still have next year's first available.

In this scenario they miss out on pick 27 from us, but in Stavs hypotehtical that pick gets eaten up anyway. Theyll get some later picks for Stringer and Shiel which should go close to matching Kako when added to their current second rounder.

Freo and Carlton would be getting a free upgrade. They wouldnt care about Essendons interests. Freo would be offered pick 9 for 11 essentially and Carlton would be offered 11 for 12. Why on Earth would they say no?

When negotiating you need to be concerned about the other parties interests because unless both parties are satisfied there's no deal to be had.

I subscribe to game theory, negotiations are easiest when both parties benefit instead of it being a zero sum game.

My hypothetical falls apart if trades cant be made once the bid is lodged, but nobody seems to be able to point to the rule that forbids it. The laws that I read last night don't comment on it, but they do give the commission the authority to make determinations so if they have done this, I would have thought there would be some article somewhere which confirms this.

I can't recall a club ever trading a pick out while they are on the clock to match a bid.

Clubs who have been in the same situation that Essendon now find themselves in have moved their 1st rounder on well in advance of the draft. This is probably because being on the clock & trying to do a pick swap throws the bargaining power firmly in the hands of the other club.

And you also have the potential of the deal falling over & time running out to make the matching decision.

Too many variables for a club to risk not getting a deal done.

 

[Armoooo]

The Swans found a sneaky draft loophole last year. The AFL just closed it

The Swans found a sneaky draft loophole last year. The AFL just closed it

www.foxsports.com.au

Interesting article from back in 2019.

It seems in 2018, Sydney and West worked out a deal where Sydney would trade their first round pick to West Coast for a future pick, and then they'd essentially trade back a lesser pick after the bid has been matched.

The AFL have advised clubs that if you trade out your next pick, you're not allowed to trade back into that draft again through that club. Sydney and West Coast were smart enough to exploit the loophole with two teams, probably a matter of time before three clubs get together to take advantage of the new loophole. Typical AFL policy on the run, closing one loophole just creates another more convoluted one.

This link says clubs can make trades after the bid is made but is 5 years old now, will keep looking for more recent updates.

 

[saintbill]

Get Essendon's pick 9, we end up with a haul of Smillie, Reid and Armstrong.

I don't follow the U18's like some do on here, but I reckon we have got outside pace covered with Wilson and Henry. So sick of other teams being bigger bodied, I would be happy with a Smillie type as our first option to add some size around the ball. Reid just sounds like a good all around footballer. Accumulator, does nice things. Yes please.

Finally, if we had the extra pick take the best forward in the draft. We can't be relying on a forward line of just King and Sharman moving forward. Coops is more your third tall type and King is injury prone.

Pull that off, and we go hard at LDU next year. It's unlikely but if we can show we are on the cusp of contending you never know.

List would be looking pretty damn good, probably just 1 key defender and 1 small forward way from a gun side if all that were to happen.

 

[jwikked]

We haven’t delisted him and he isn’t a free agent. They’ll have to give us something and we’ll demand it so we can draft the academy kids

That’s weird, I thought we already announced he wasn’t getting another contract.


Either way, would think the club would be keen to move him on. Looked good but is as injury prone as it gets

 

[Armoooo]

Get Essendon's pick 9, we end up with a haul of Smillie, Reid and Armstrong.

I don't follow the U18's like some do on here, but I reckon we have got outside pace covered with Wilson and Henry. So sick of other teams being bigger bodied, I would be happy with a Smillie type as our first option to add some size around the ball. Reid just sounds like a good all around footballer. Accumulator, does nice things. Yes please.

Finally, if we had the extra pick take the best forward in the draft. We can't be relying on a forward line of just King and Sharman moving forward. Coops is more your third tall type and King is injury prone.

Pull that off, and we go hard at LDU next year. It's unlikely but if we can show we are on the cusp of contending you never know.

List would be looking pretty damn good, probably just 1 key defender and 1 small forward way from a gun side if all that were to happen.

Do we really need another key forward? We wouldn't just be relying on King and Sharman when we'd also have Caminiti, Owens and a resting Marshall/Soldo.

I think we're best taking two mids (or 3 if we end up with pick 9) and then going for a key defender. Cole is a long shot going by his apparent draft rankings.

Ideally we'd grab Balta next year, but I would.never want to see us basing any list management strategy on the assumption we can get a FA. If Balta and LDU both leave their clubs next year, I'd say there'd be less than a 1% chance we'd be able to attract either of them.

 

[Joffaboy]

That’s weird, I thought we already announced he wasn’t getting another contract.


Either way, would think the club would be keen to move him on. Looked good but is as injury prone as it gets

He was a delisted Free Agent when we picked him up, so isn't he a UFA for the rest of his career?

 

[Sol Goodman]

I can't recall a club ever trading a pick out while they are on the clock to match a bid.

Clubs who have been in the same situation that Essendon now find themselves in have moved their 1st rounder on well in advance of the draft. This is probably because being on the clock & trying to do a pick swap throws the bargaining power firmly in the hands of the other club.

And you also have the potential of the deal falling over & time running out to make the matching decision.

Too many variables for a club to risk not getting a deal done.

Exactly this. Clubs live trading out their picks before they're picks happens all the time and the AFL don't call it draft tampering but guaranteed if a club asked them if it can be done on the clock they would be told don't do it because it's a bad look. Also it's not really best practices to do this business on the clock just for a little better deal which could have been done earlier off the clock, if it falls through they'll look a bit silly. They'd rather not risk it, save face and do a deal prior.

 

[akaifu]

That’s weird, I thought we already announced he wasn’t getting another contract.


Either way, would think the club would be keen to move him on. Looked good but is as injury prone as it gets

Never was announced by the club, just whispered by a couple of journos

 

[Sol Goodman]

Why do people keep throwing Armstrong name up? I wouldn't of thought we would be drafting a key fwd.

 

[ScrappyDo]

hey this would be great news wouldt it,i actually gave it a bit of thought a few weeks ago but thought it too far fetched so didnt convey my thoughts,but to grab one of these guys as our sandy player would be huge,saving a list spot and helping get all 3

St Kilda Next Generation Academy prospect Adrian Cole might be the front-runner for the Saints' rookie list spot vacancy, having managed a pair of appearances for the Zebras against Richmond and Essendon this year.

The 195cm Vic Metro defender is likely to land on the Saints' list one way or another, with the club potentially seeing Cole as a loophole for their open Sandringham spot.

Fellow NGA prospect Lennox Hofmann also played against the Tigers' reserves in August and could be considered for the spot, while father-son prospect Elwood Peckett - 250-gamer Justin - also a member of the club's NGA.

That idea potentially saves a list spot but wouldn't effect our ability to list them. Though it would destroy our ability to recruit better prospects to Sandy so probably narr..

 

[Joffaboy]

Do we really need another key forward? We wouldn't just be relying on King and Sharman when we'd also have Caminiti, Owens and a resting Marshall/Soldo.

I think we're best taking two mids (or 3 if we end up with pick 9) and then going for a key defender. Cole is a long shot going by his apparent draft rankings.

Ideally we'd grab Balta next year, but I would.never want to see us basing any list management strategy on the assumption we can get a FA. If Balta and LDU both leave their clubs next year, I'd say there'd be less than a 1% chance we'd be able to attract either of them.

I agree, don't think we need another forward this draft. Owens is an out and out forward, he is not or ever will be a mid in my view.
I think the coaches have come to that conclusion and will settle him forward. It is taking us supporters some time to get there with Owens. So we have Owens, Sharman, Caminiti, King, Butler and Higgins as the starting forward line. Then we have the likes of Henry, and the mids resting forward, Marshall going forward more if we land Soldo etc.

i dont think Caminiti is long term backman. Battle has left a hole and although the Lyon defence is team oriented, Battle is quality and will be missed.
Would love to land Balta, however I would be looking in the other Leagues this year for a cheap backman to cover for 2025.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Why do people keep throwing Armstrong name up? I wouldn't of thought we would be drafting a key fwd.

I suppose it depends on where they see Hammer playing down the track. If he's a long-term defender, then Armstrong is well worth a look. If he's forward then Tauru has to be considered.

If we snag the 3 early picks then you'd think that a tall definitely comes into play.

 

[TheJackal]

I still think we can work out a 2 or 3 part trade with Essendon and GWS.

I can't be bothered working out the specifics. But the trades would involve pick 9, our F1, Shiel & Stringer (to GWS), 15, 16 after Kako bid and late picks for our academy/fs boys.

Obviously a bit to nut out there, but the 3 clubs have enough going on between each other to make these trades work.

 

[TheJackal]

I suppose it depends on where they see Hammer playing down the track. If he's a long-term defender, then Armstrong is well worth a look. If he's forward then Tauru has to be considered.

If we snag the 3 early picks then you'd think that a tall definitely comes into play.

Looking forward from a list management point of view, we definitely need to start having some wins with tall key position draftees.

 

[akaifu]

He was a delisted Free Agent when we picked him up, so isn't he a UFA for the rest of his career?

No, he was signed through SSP. St Kilda is his first AFL club. He’s just OOC, not a free agent

 

[akaifu]

Do we really need another key forward? We wouldn't just be relying on King and Sharman when we'd also have Caminiti, Owens and a resting Marshall/Soldo.

I think we're best taking two mids (or 3 if we end up with pick 9) and then going for a key defender. Cole is a long shot going by his apparent draft rankings.

Ideally we'd grab Balta next year, but I would.never want to see us basing any list management strategy on the assumption we can get a FA. If Balta and LDU both leave their clubs next year, I'd say there'd be less than a 1% chance we'd be able to attract either of them.

You say Cole is a long shot, what other key defenders are you taking?

Tauru is the only one I’d consider but he’s more a third tall and he’ll probably be gone before our picks anyway

Surely we don’t want another concussion-prone player in Trainor

All the other key defenders are in the second round; Whitlock, O’Farrell, Mraz etc

Cal Twomey rates Cole around 40, which will be the second round this year

 

[Joffaboy]

No, he was signed through SSP. St Kilda is his first AFL club. He’s just OOC, not a free agent

Apologies, thought you were posting about Membrey.

 

[akaifu]

Get Essendon's pick 9, we end up with a haul of Smillie, Reid and Armstrong.

I don't follow the U18's like some do on here, but I reckon we have got outside pace covered with Wilson and Henry. So sick of other teams being bigger bodied, I would be happy with a Smillie type as our first option to add some size around the ball. Reid just sounds like a good all around footballer. Accumulator, does nice things. Yes please.

Finally, if we had the extra pick take the best forward in the draft. We can't be relying on a forward line of just King and Sharman moving forward. Coops is more your third tall type and King is injury prone.

Pull that off, and we go hard at LDU next year. It's unlikely but if we can show we are on the cusp of contending you never know.

List would be looking pretty damn good, probably just 1 key defender and 1 small forward way from a gun side if all that were to happen.

Hard pass on Reid. Apparently recruiters see him as either a half back or a half forward at AFL level

We need inside speed. Your haul is as slow as they get. I love the Smillie pick, but I think we need to pair him with a mid with burst; Lindsay or Travaglia. Also don’t see a need for Armstrong since we have Sharman - would rather take best available

 

[Joffaboy]

Hard pass on Reid. Apparently recruiters see him as either a half back or a half forward at AFL level

We need inside speed. Your haul is as slow as they get. I love the Smillie pick, but I think we need to pair him with a mid with burst; Lindsay or Travaglia. Also don’t see a need for Armstrong since we have Sharman - would rather take best available

Lindsay's coach was on SEN yesterday and says he is the most bulletproof recruit a club could get. Now take that with a bi of bias, but he sounds like a great recruit especially if we have 7+8+9