List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[snails13]

Yes they do, but trading out their pick 9 now for a future pick gives them 3 first round picks over this year and next. Not trading it, if there is a bid for Kako before pick 9, that eats their pick and they end up with only 2 first round picks over two years. So for the Injectors its either trade up to get above the Kako bid, or trade out to avoid losing a first round bid.

Hi we're from St Kilda and we're here to help.

Yes understand all that but Armooos first scenario was if we bid on Kako,can Essendon trade pick 9.
If we are bidding on Kako it is obviously at the Draft,so if we bid it's Yes or No

 

[stavro#4]

if we do that we need to take one no matter what,so when brayshaw ldu and whoever knocks us back we need to take balta or whoever no matter the position he plays,with our record of attracting them its a very risky plan,we could be left with no early pick,no ufa & having to overpay gop's if we have another high potential but melts a fn plenty by round 10 season

Balta will be forced out the door.

He will get the tigers Band 1. Which will be pick 2

 

[Significant]

Balta will be forced out the door.

He will get the tigers Band 1. Which will be pick 2

Want! I could accept losing Battle, who is a contributor to a good defensive system, and replace him with Balta who is someone you build your defence around. Andrews-esque.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Actually a situation where no one ever rating us could work to our advantage. Can completely see the Dons doing the trade with a scoff and saying “we think the saints pick next year will be higher than 9 anyway they just gave us free capital”

Yes! I do absolutely agree with that. Battle out, use that perception and back ourselves to win the flag

 

[beside the seaside]

If the deal is F1 and 27 for 9 then it just seems like overs. Would rather let the recruiters do their work and find a gem at 27 and hold onto the F1.

 

[jimmytigs]

Balta will be forced out the door.

He will get the tigers Band 1. Which will be pick 2

as long as we get one if we ditch out ffrdp,with our record im happy for any including balta

 

[stavro#4]

as long as we get one if we ditch out ffrdp,with our record im happy for any including balta

I’m not saying we will land him.

I’m just saying he won’t be staying.

Also what’s the difference between using nexts years first rounder now or next year?

 

[Significant]

I’m not saying we will land him.

I’m just saying he won’t be staying.

Also what’s the difference between using nexts years first rounder now or next year?

I think it's more the giving away of this year's mid 2nd round pick in a really good draft...

 

[jimmytigs]

I’m not saying we will land him.

I’m just saying he won’t be staying.

Also what’s the difference between using nexts years first rounder now or next year?

moot point if we get a gun ufa,but if we dont we already have 2 this year,thats great,i would prefer to be a presence next year as well

 

[stavro#4]

I think it's more the giving away of this year's mid 2nd round pick in a really good draft...

Who knows mate.

Maybe we will be able to do this by moving our second rounder back etc.

I’m not overly concerned. 7+8+9 would be incredible and that is more important to me than P27.

 

[stavro#4]

moot point if we get a gun ufa,but if we dont we already have 2 this year,thats great,i would prefer to be a presence next year as well

Each to their own.

I’d rather know what pick I’m at today as opposed to the hope or security of what might happen in 12 months.

Plus if you’re that concerned. We could potentially have a picks. Nas will be OOC

 

[beside the seaside]

Each to their own.

I’d rather know what pick I’m at today as opposed to the hope or security of what might happen in 12 months.

Plus if you’re that concerned. We could potentially have a picks. Nas will be OOC

 

[stavro#4]

Just pointing out he is OOC.

Not saying. implying. Hinting. That He is going.

 

[jimmytigs]

hey this would be great news wouldt it,i actually gave it a bit of thought a few weeks ago but thought it too far fetched so didnt convey my thoughts,but to grab one of these guys as our sandy player would be huge,saving a list spot and helping get all 3

St Kilda Next Generation Academy prospect Adrian Cole might be the front-runner for the Saints' rookie list spot vacancy, having managed a pair of appearances for the Zebras against Richmond and Essendon this year.

The 195cm Vic Metro defender is likely to land on the Saints' list one way or another, with the club potentially seeing Cole as a loophole for their open Sandringham spot.

Fellow NGA prospect Lennox Hofmann also played against the Tigers' reserves in August and could be considered for the spot, while father-son prospect Elwood Peckett - 250-gamer Justin - also a member of the club's NGA.

 

[BrutThough]

hey this would be great news wouldt it,i actually gave it a bit of thought a few weeks ago but thought it too far fetched so didnt convey my thoughts,but to grab one of these guys as our sandy player would be huge,saving a list spot and helping get all 3

St Kilda Next Generation Academy prospect Adrian Cole might be the front-runner for the Saints' rookie list spot vacancy, having managed a pair of appearances for the Zebras against Richmond and Essendon this year.

The 195cm Vic Metro defender is likely to land on the Saints' list one way or another, with the club potentially seeing Cole as a loophole for their open Sandringham spot.

Fellow NGA prospect Lennox Hofmann also played against the Tigers' reserves in August and could be considered for the spot, while father-son prospect Elwood Peckett - 250-gamer Justin - also a member of the club's NGA.

There is no loophole. The spot is for a Sandringham-listed player, which none of the u18 players are.

 

[hayes]

Each to their own.

I’d rather know what pick I’m at today as opposed to the hope or security of what might happen in 12 months.

Plus if you’re that concerned. We could potentially have a picks. Nas will be OOC

Don’t even.

 

[beside the seaside]

There is no loophole. The spot is for a Sandringham-listed player, which none of the u18 players are.

It also wouldn't be in the spirit of the agreement. If we want this plan to succeed it has to be long term.

 

[ScrappyDo]

If we trade our F1, are we allowed to trade any other of our future picks?

We can apply for dispensation to do so and as it would be used for drafting there's every chance it would be granted.
The problem comes that (l think) under live trading the rules is the rules, so it must be done during trade period.

 

[Armoooo]

But doesn't this give Essendon 2 first round draft picks over two years (including Kako), versus the scenario outlined a number of times here, where they get 3 first round draft picks over two years (including Kako)?

Nope, they'd get Kako first, then use Carltons pick 12 and still have next year's first available.

In this scenario they miss out on pick 27 from us, but in Stavs hypotehtical that pick gets eaten up anyway. Theyll get some later picks for Stringer and Shiel which should go close to matching Kako when added to their current second rounder.

I believe that your entire premise is designed so that Freo & Carlton would help Essendon retain a first round pick and avoid a St Kilda bid.

That Freo in their heart of hearts would have to kindly relinquish the acquired first rounder - because they are going to support the Bombers or that both clubs want to see Essendon get a second first round pick.

Here’s the thing, they could NOT help Essendon - who match a Kako bid with pick 9 and both those clubs move forward in the draft still and Essendon don’t get supported in selecting an additional first round player.

Freo and Carlton would be getting a free upgrade. They wouldnt care about Essendons interests. Freo would be offered pick 9 for 11 essentially and Carlton would be offered 11 for 12. Why on Earth would they say no?

Look at the scenario you created to help Essendon retain a first round pick

Step back and think about it. Looks awfully cornered without needing other clubs to be incahoots with the Bombers and care about them retaining a first round pick.

Especially an idea never seen before at the draft.

When negotiating you need to be concerned about the other parties interests because unless both parties are satisfied there's no deal to be had.

I subscribe to game theory, negotiations are easiest when both parties benefit instead of it being a zero sum game.

My hypothetical falls apart if trades cant be made once the bid is lodged, but nobody seems to be able to point to the rule that forbids it. The laws that I read last night don't comment on it, but they do give the commission the authority to make determinations so if they have done this, I would have thought there would be some article somewhere which confirms this.

 

[botts]

hey this would be great news wouldt it,i actually gave it a bit of thought a few weeks ago but thought it too far fetched so didnt convey my thoughts,but to grab one of these guys as our sandy player would be huge,saving a list spot and helping get all 3

St Kilda Next Generation Academy prospect Adrian Cole might be the front-runner for the Saints' rookie list spot vacancy, having managed a pair of appearances for the Zebras against Richmond and Essendon this year.

The 195cm Vic Metro defender is likely to land on the Saints' list one way or another, with the club potentially seeing Cole as a loophole for their open Sandringham spot.

Fellow NGA prospect Lennox Hofmann also played against the Tigers' reserves in August and could be considered for the spot, while father-son prospect Elwood Peckett - 250-gamer Justin - also a member of the club's NGA.

Gold

 

[_Maximus_12]

There is no loophole. The spot is for a Sandringham-listed player, which none of the u18 players are.

I’d sooner keep Matt Alison than list any of the players from Sandringham.

There are better players running around in the bush.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

Surely if Essendon are looking to trade out it's either us or the Dees. If they're looking to trade up, it's North or West Coast. Adelaide don't have list spots, so won't be bringing in extra picks this year, not sure about Richmond actually but probs have bigger fish to fry.

Out makes more sense without context, but they may really really rate someone in the top 3 so could be happy to over pay.

If it's up, and Essendon choose Melbourne, we take the deal we were offering them and offer it to Freo instead, might even be a bit cheaper as F1 and 43 for P11 makes sense. We then also bid on Kako at 7 or 8 or 11. Hopefully we have the balls to do 7.

If Essendon choose us, it's probably F1 plus 27 for 9, with maybe something like an F3 or F4 coming back, but probs not. 7, 8, 9 would put us in such a strong position, both on draft night and going forward, so I don't mind the deal favouring the Dons

 

[jimmytigs]

There is no loophole. The spot is for a Sandringham-listed player, which none of the u18 players are.

your probably right,but we already have hall on the list who didnt force his way in yet(fingers crossed)& none of the sandy listed players look that great,so we better start getting some guys into sandy that have potential to be afl players if we want to subject ourselves to such deals,otherwise if something like this can be exploited run with it

 

[JediSaint]

Or Crows. Or Melbourne. Or whoever.
If we can do it, great, and good sign the media is reporting our interest in 9.
I'm really cautious about Melbourne, they have already shown great interest in moving their F1 and Freo isn't the tree they should be barking up. 2 of their 3 picks will go for Bolton and I'd assume they want some first round presence in a draft such as this.

Freo need futures for Chad Warner

 

[Tommy Wigs]

The AFL rules don’t cover the bidding system to the detail of when a club can trade their next selection immediately once they are on the clock. And as someone else mentioned that’s the key to everything - if we bid at 8, then if they can trade 9 back or out, it’s all moot.

But I can’t imagine it’s even a discussion between us and them if they could do that. And in the GWS and Sydney situation, I doubt that GWS would have held that very next pick if they could have traded out. But they do things differently and perhaps they were happier to burn that rather than disrupting any following picks.