Training 2025 Pre-Season Thread

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I'm still trying to workout where the players are getting 20 weeks off.

I work a 9 day fortnight, is someone going to count those 26 Fridays as time off? Because I don't get paid for those days off.
I went to this 'Coaches' sportsman's lunch thingy, Wayne Bennet, Leigh Matthews, Eddie Jones when they were all at their peak. The whole thing was about running professional sporting organisations.

One point I remember was that the players 'work' when everyone else is relaxing. They were making the point, if the game is a Saturday night the Friday night is not a night out and Sunday is a recovery session so a player's night out could well be the Monday when most people are back at work. All 3 coaches were saying how this leads players to more likely hang around with other players socially or hang around with people who don't work or have flexibility in their schedule. Hence players become somewhat disconnected from the 'pub test' and water cooler conversations.

In my career as a business consultant I had a client sponsor one of the Netball franchises and worked intricately the player's contracts for access to players for functions. Their contracts were almost an exact copy of the NRL ones and descriptions around rest, recovery and preparation are pretty complex as is the exact amount of promotional activities players have to do and how many times they have access to the media.

I think a lot of commentators in Footy don't realise the weekend sacrifice because they themselves are living the same hours, maybe without the recovery sessions, so talk about players renumeration leaves out the 'social life' sacrifices made.
 
It feels like the AFL is dammed if they do, dammed if they don't with the rotations.
if they seriously limited rotations so footy was closer to the old days the complaint would be that more fatigued players are more likely to be injured.
Allow more rotations, have the players playing a higher impact game and have injuries increased.
I remember hearing on the radio about when the AFL ran the last study on reducing the interchange cap down, it was meant to be a pretty comprehensive evidence based study that overwhelmingly came to the conclusion that it reduced injuries more than the other options (staying the same or no caps). Ie you might get some more fatigue issues but it was worth it for the reducing the pace and impact ones.

Apparently the AFL board were accepting of it, but were overwhelmed by the coaches and players (or some other internal stakeholders) rejecting it.
 
Essendon. Awkward.
This is the text of the Essendon under-23
This is an interesting group to evaluate. There is reason to be excited about some of them, particularly Nate Caddy, Archie Perkins and Alwyn Davey jnr, while players such as Ben Hobbs and Zach Reid – who continues to struggle with injuries – have shown glimpses. The Bombers need to see significant development from a few of those aforementioned footballers in 2025. The jury is still out on midfielder Elijah Tsatas, the No.5 pick in the 2022 draft, so his third season will be a big one. Jye Menzie has become a solid AFL player, but it is too soon to make a judgment on Archie Roberts, Luamon Lual, Lewis Hayes and Vigo Visentini.
Already a star: None. Star upside: Caddy.
 
So I am thinking that our best 23 looks something like this. I am assuming that Day is going to come/be good and we will continue with the 3 talls.

FB Lester Andrews Starcevich
HB Zorko Payne Coleman
C Berry Neale McCluggage
R McInerny Dunkley W Ashcroft
HF Rayner Hipwood Lohman
FF Cameron Day Ah Chee
Int Fletcher Morris L Ashcroft Willmot Bailey

The names I highlighted in yellow are the guys I could see being the subs. We could play with two talls and Morris as the sub to come on later in the game and provide some extra height. I am not sure that it is something that the coaches will do but there is some really good quality fighting for spots 19-22 trying not to be the sub. I don't envy the coaches in making the decision who becomes the sub. It's likely that injuries will happen to one of the FP/HFFs so the decision will be made for the team. Linc will be back pushing for a spot.

I haven't listed Doedee which I know many of us and the coaching staff were expecting him to drop straight into the 22 when he is fit and healthy but Froggy hasn't put a foot wrong so I can't see a reason for dropping him unless his form drops off and Doedee is dominant in the VFL. At 33 it is entirely possible Frog starts to drop off.

I pushed Clugg to a wing because I think that Washy is at worst, level with Clugg as an inside mid and his final series probably saw him make strong case for being our #2 mid behind Neale. Clugg is better on a wing and HFF than Washy IMO. Clugg would still rotate through the inside mids but the time would be split more evenly between wing and on ball. Fletch obviously rotates with Bez and Clugg.

Before Coleman is able to come back, you would expect that either Answorth or McKenna slot into that HBF spot on the interchange.

Looking at this list, and knowing that we still have Reville, McCarthy, Marshall, Brain, and probably a few others that I am missing, it shows we have some serious depth at for small to mid size players across all positions. Every season we see someone usurp an established player and cement their place in the side so I expect someone will surprise and and become a lock for the 22.
 
So I am thinking that our best 23 looks something like this. I am assuming that Day is going to come/be good and we will continue with the 3 talls.

FB Lester Andrews Starcevich
HB Zorko Payne Coleman
C Berry Neale McCluggage
R McInerny Dunkley W Ashcroft
HF Rayner Hipwood Lohman
FF Cameron Day Ah Chee
Int Fletcher Morris L Ashcroft Willmot Bailey

The names I highlighted in yellow are the guys I could see being the subs. We could play with two talls and Morris as the sub to come on later in the game and provide some extra height. I am not sure that it is something that the coaches will do but there is some really good quality fighting for spots 19-22 trying not to be the sub. I don't envy the coaches in making the decision who becomes the sub. It's likely that injuries will happen to one of the FP/HFFs so the decision will be made for the team. Linc will be back pushing for a spot.

I haven't listed Doedee which I know many of us and the coaching staff were expecting him to drop straight into the 22 when he is fit and healthy but Froggy hasn't put a foot wrong so I can't see a reason for dropping him unless his form drops off and Doedee is dominant in the VFL. At 33 it is entirely possible Frog starts to drop off.

I pushed Clugg to a wing because I think that Washy is at worst, level with Clugg as an inside mid and his final series probably saw him make strong case for being our #2 mid behind Neale. Clugg is better on a wing and HFF than Washy IMO. Clugg would still rotate through the inside mids but the time would be split more evenly between wing and on ball. Fletch obviously rotates with Bez and Clugg.

Before Coleman is able to come back, you would expect that either Answorth or McKenna slot into that HBF spot on the interchange.

Looking at this list, and knowing that we still have Reville, McCarthy, Marshall, Brain, and probably a few others that I am missing, it shows we have some serious depth at for small to mid size players across all positions. Every season we see someone usurp an established player and cement their place in the side so I expect someone will surprise and and become a lock for the 22.
What is the consensus on who we will be missing for round 1?

from reading press / listening to podcasts it seems we will be likely missing:

Coleman - should be playing a week or two later, knee has gone slower than expected
Hipwood - long rest didn't work for groin, got surgery, slow recovery, again soudns like he is not far off but not quite ready
Oscar - shoulder still being strengthened, sounds like he will be a few weeks in to the season
Levi Ashcroft - shoulder surgery at a similar time to Oscar, sounds like he is close but hard to see them risking him given it will be his debut so would want to be cherry ripe
Henry Smith - can't remember what but think he had surgery and missing for the first few rounds
Doedee - would want to be uber cautious, would play 2s when ready you would think
McCarthy / Gardiner - would be under 10 months from knees so will take a bit longer
Clugga - unsure?
Neale - seems fine albeit underdone?

If the above is accurate that's the most injuries we have had at the start of the season for quite a long time. I think it is manageable for now but too many more and we could really struggle.
 

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What is the consensus on who we will be missing for round 1?

from reading press / listening to podcasts it seems we will be likely missing:

Coleman - should be playing a week or two later, knee has gone slower than expected
Hipwood - long rest didn't work for groin, got surgery, slow recovery, again soudns like he is not far off but not quite ready
Oscar - shoulder still being strengthened, sounds like he will be a few weeks in to the season
Levi Ashcroft - shoulder surgery at a similar time to Oscar, sounds like he is close but hard to see them risking him given it will be his debut so would want to be cherry ripe
Henry Smith - can't remember what but think he had surgery and missing for the first few rounds
Doedee - would want to be uber cautious, would play 2s when ready you would think
McCarthy / Gardiner - would be under 10 months from knees so will take a bit longer
Clugga - unsure?
Neale - seems fine albeit underdone?

If the above is accurate that's the most injuries we have had at the start of the season for quite a long time. I think it is manageable for now but too many more and we could really struggle.
I think that is about right.
Coleman - I don't think there is any need to rush him back. His position is more or less covered and we have pretty good back up. Why risk someone that is a game changer by not letting it take a bit more time if required?
Hipwood - If we can run with 2 talls at the start of the season, as shown above, we have have a really strong cohort of forward/mids, flankers and pockets. It wouldn't be our strongest team without Hippy but we would still have serious attacking power.
Oscar - Rest him if needed. Forty is such a good backup.
Lashy - Agree, no need to push him hard for round 1. Obvs won't play VFL but unless his improvement over the preseason is astronomical we have guys who will play his position just as well, maybe better.
Neale - If the extra week or two off benefits him then I think it is worth doing. Dunks, Washy and Clugg can carry an AFL level midfield.

I could see round O, if a really conservative approach was taken, looking something like this. Despite the outs it is still a pretty blood strong team.

FB Lester Andrews Starcevich
HB Zorko Payne Answorth
C Berry W Ashcroft Fletcher
R Fort Dunkley McCluggage
HF Rayner Morris Lohman
FF Cameron Day Ah Chee
Int McKenna Bruce Willmot Brain/Dev
Sub Brain/Dev

Smith to replace Brain/Dev if coaches stick with 3 talls.
 
I think that is about right.
Coleman - I don't think there is any need to rush him back. His position is more or less covered and we have pretty good back up. Why risk someone that is a game changer by not letting it take a bit more time if required?
Hipwood - If we can run with 2 talls at the start of the season, as shown above, we have have a really strong cohort of forward/mids, flankers and pockets. It wouldn't be our strongest team without Hippy but we would still have serious attacking power.
Oscar - Rest him if needed. Forty is such a good backup.
Lashy - Agree, no need to push him hard for round 1. Obvs won't play VFL but unless his improvement over the preseason is astronomical we have guys who will play his position just as well, maybe better.
Neale - If the extra week or two off benefits him then I think it is worth doing. Dunks, Washy and Clugg can carry an AFL level midfield.

I could see round O, if a really conservative approach was taken, looking something like this. Despite the outs it is still a pretty blood strong team.

FB Lester Andrews Starcevich
HB Zorko Payne Answorth
C Berry W Ashcroft Fletcher
R Fort Dunkley McCluggage
HF Rayner Morris Lohman
FF Cameron Day Ah Chee
Int McKenna Bruce Willmot Brain/Dev
Sub Brain/Dev

Smith to replace Brain/Dev if coaches stick with 3 talls.

Great analysis, if the kid is up to it, I'd love to have a look at Sam Marshall while the grounds are hard and fast. Maybe as sub so when the heat is out of the game, he can bring his speed.
 
No one has mentioned Berry as a possible tall forward target, if
Hipwood doesn’t get up for the first round. So I thought I would. Listed as taller than Morris.

I wanted to see he as a back up key back at some stage. I think it was tried at some stage last year, with limited success. Long experience watching football has shown that just because a player is tall doesn’t mean they are KP material.

However he could play the McStay role. Lead up hard and get to as many high balls as possible. IIRC Eric and Joe were our main lead up targets. With both of them missing he might be able to fill the role.

Plenty of options to fill Berry’s wing role. What do you think?
 
Great outcome for us; we get both teams when they're at the freshest. Ideal challenge for us.

Thursday, 20 February

Gold Coast vs. Brisbane vs. Collingwood, 5pm AEST at People First Stadium (6 x 25min periods, no time on)

Split into three matches, with two periods each. Six-minute breaks between each half, and 15-minute breaks between the mini-matches.

Period structure:

P1 – BRI – COL

P2 – BRI – COL

15min Break

P3 – BRI – GCS


P4 – BRI – GCS

15 min Break

P5 – GCS – COL


P6 – GCS – COL
 
No one has mentioned Berry as a possible tall forward target, if
Hipwood doesn’t get up for the first round. So I thought I would. Listed as taller than Morris.

I wanted to see he as a back up key back at some stage. I think it was tried at some stage last year, with limited success. Long experience watching football has shown that just because a player is tall doesn’t mean they are KP material.

However he could play the McStay role. Lead up hard and get to as many high balls as possible. IIRC Eric and Joe were our main lead up targets. With both of them missing he might be able to fill the role.

Plenty of options to fill Berry’s wing role. What do you think?
It's not a crazy idea. Obviously not his best position but he is a big body that could get the ball to ground. I think it may have been spoken by someone else here that the problems with him being a tall forward replacement was his shoulders in marking contests.
ETA: In theory at least, he could run a key defender absolutely ragged over a game and take advantaged of a knackered opponent.
 
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It wouldn't surprise me if the club allows other sporting codes, other than ball sports, to use the facilities out there.

I think it’s more of just to see another elite sport, Dean was asking questions around the facility didn’t know much about it


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