Training 2025 Pre-Season

[AFC979810]

Nat Fyfe averaged 25 touches and 4 clearances a game in his second season after being drafted as a scrawny tall

If he's genuinely elite he should be front and centre in his second season. Third season at the latest

Daniel Curtin was drafted at 197cm and weighed 95 kilo.

Fyfe was drafted at 188cm and 75kilo.

May as well compare Caleb Daniels development curve to Max Gawn.

Look at other players around Curtin's height / build who had their breakouts in year 5 - Hawkins/Walker/Josh Kennedy. Jack Riewoldt had his breakout season in his 4th year.

The bigger the player - the longer they generally take to develop. 15+ games should be the goal for Curtin in 2025.

 

[WeeBlake]

Daniel Curtin was drafted at 197cm and weighed 95 kilo.

Fyfe was drafted at 188cm and 75kilo.

May as well compare Caleb Daniels development curve to Max Gawn.

Look at other players around Curtin's height / build who had their breakouts in year 5 - Hawkins/Walker/Josh Kennedy. Jack Riewoldt had his breakout season in his 4th year.

The bigger the player - the longer they generally take to develop. 15+ games should be the goal for Curtin in 2025.

Not sure about that. Clearly, rucks and KPDs do take longer, but do taller mids/flankers/3rd talls take longer?

Bont was very good in his second season iirc. Cripps was averaging 23 touches in his second year.

 

[Cromulant]

Not sure about that. Clearly, rucks and KPDs do take longer, but do taller mids/flankers/3rd talls take longer?

Bont was very good in his second season iirc. Cripps was averaging 23 touches in his second year.

Curtin hasn't spent that much time as a midfielder, so it'll take a little longer.

That said, a kid with his talent won't take too long to adjust. Late on in the season he looked confident around stoppage and up forward.

That's where he should stay

 

[FR0GGY]

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

He looks like Schoenberg after the off-season

 

[Scorpus]

Daniel Curtin was drafted at 197cm and weighed 95 kilo.

Fyfe was drafted at 188cm and 75kilo.

May as well compare Caleb Daniels development curve to Max Gawn.

Look at other players around Curtin's height / build who had their breakouts in year 5 - Hawkins/Walker/Josh Kennedy. Jack Riewoldt had his breakout season in his 4th year.

The bigger the player - the longer they generally take to develop. 15+ games should be the goal for Curtin in 2025.

Right so Curtin was more physically developed than Fyfe and more ready to play AFL

 

[Cromulant]

Right so Curtin was more physically developed than Fyfe and more ready to play AFL

Well no.... being 95kg at 17-18 can mean a number of things

 

[Scorpus]

Well no.... being 95kg at 17-18 can mean a number of things

Are you suggesting he's fat?

 

[Scorpus]

Anyway here's another example. Patrick Cripps

9

Patrick Cripps

Age

29

Ht

195cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

16.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.8

5star

CL

7.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.9

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.8

4star

CL

6.3

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.4

4star

was a 190cm (grew to 195cm) 90kg kid when he was drafted, and in his second year was averaging 24 disposals and 7 clearances a game

I guess if we believe he's a key forward then we can expect his development to be a lot slower. But I'm not sure many people think he is.

If he's actually an elite midfielder like we hope, then he should be showing that quite quickly and needs to be prioritized in that role

 

[Scorpus]

Not sure about that. Clearly, rucks and KPDs do take longer, but do taller mids/flankers/3rd talls take longer?

Bont was very good in his second season iirc. Cripps was averaging 23 touches in his second year.

There are not many examples of great midfielders taking time to evolve at AFL level. It's typically evident in the 2nd season, or at the latest, the 3rd season. That's what needs to be planned for (as in, giving these players their best roles to prove themselves)

Unless Curtin is playing a true key position role, we need to lower our expectations of his ceiling if he isn't producing in the next 1-2 seasons

 

[glengowan]

Curtin reminds me a bit of Andrew Embley

Andrew Embley

Age

43

Ht

189cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.1

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

6.5

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

2.2

4star

CL

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.4

3star

. Give him a run on the wing and half forward flank. His strength seems to be his elite kicking and his natural size he, and we as a team, can use to advantage. If he goes close to a Cripps style of player we can use in the middle, we've hit the jackpot. He doesn't seem like a key position player at either end to me, but I can picture him drifting to the forward 50 and causing issues in the air for the opposition if they don't have a match up.

 

[GreyCrow]

There are not many examples of great midfielders taking time to evolve at AFL level. It's typically evident in the 2nd season, or at the latest, the 3rd season. That's what needs to be planned for (as in, giving these players their best roles to prove themselves)

100%

If we think we have a jet dont put the handbrake on

Its really frustrating to see a long development cycle in the SANFL which does nothing but stifle real talent

12-15 games for Curtin and at least 8 with significant midfield minutes

 

[GreyCrow]

Curtin reminds me a bit of Andrew Embley.

Probably a good comparison

 

[Cromulant]

Are you suggesting he's fat?

Not at all, im not Rory Laird.

What im saying is he's a big kid.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

100%

If we think we have a jet dont put the handbrake on

Its really frustrating to see a long development cycle in the SANFL which does nothing but stifle real talent

12-15 games for Curtin and at least 8 with significant midfield minutes

The people who think Curtin's time in the SANFL was valuable for his development were not watching those games.

 

[Cromulant]

The people who think Curtin's time in the SANFL was valuable for his development were not watching those games.

IMO if we want to play him in the middle, im ok with him playing half a dozen games in the middle at SANFL level (last year that is).

 

[adelaidecrows]

The people who think Curtin's time in the SANFL was valuable for his development were not watching those games.

Its safe to say at this stage, Nicks arrogance was not helpful for Curtins development. Thank god we did an about face midseason and changed tact by playing him actual positions he plays well in.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Its safe to say at this stage, Nicks arrogance was not helpful for Curtins development. Thank god we did an about face midseason and changed tact by playing him actual positions he plays well in.

Yes but this is a pattern with Nicks. He's had 5 years and it's still training wheels with that bloke.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Yes but this is a pattern with Nicks. He's had 5 years and it's still training wheels with that bloke.

Well our shiny new toy at pick 4 will play round 1. no doubt.

 

[BRL121]

Its safe to say at this stage, Nicks arrogance was not helpful for Curtins development. Thank god we did an about face midseason and changed tact by playing him actual positions he plays well in.

WHen have we ever shown any tact?

 

[Coopers]

Curtin just simply has to be prioritized.

If we think we are looking at finals and premierships, I'll randomly pin our window on Dawson, as the main key midfield gun we have. Our window closes when Dawson's aging means his output drops off. So that's 4-5 years of window from today.

Curtin should be hitting his straps within that period along with the other talent - Rankine, Filthy, pick 4, Rash, etc.

The time is now. If he's not in the round 1 team it's a problem.

 

[Carn The Texan]

Curtin just simply has to be prioritized.

If we think we are looking at finals and premierships, I'll randomly pin our window on Dawson, as the main key midfield gun we have. Our window closes when Dawson's aging means his output drops off. So that's 4-5 years of window from today.

Curtin should be hitting his straps within that period along with the other talent - Rankine, Filthy, pick 4, Rash, etc.

The time is now. If he's not in the round 1 team it's a problem.

Hoping to hear plenty of bigman 's updates re Dan this pre season

 

[Big Dub]

Anyway here's another example. Patrick Cripps was a 190cm (grew to 195cm) 90kg kid when he was drafted, and in his second year was averaging 24 disposals and 7 clearances a game

I guess if we believe he's a key forward then we can expect his development to be a lot slower. But I'm not sure many people think he is.

If he's actually an elite midfielder like we hope, then he should be showing that quite quickly and needs to be prioritized in that role

Like Curtin, Andrew McLeaod was drafted as a half back.

McLeod averaged 10.8 disposlas in his first year at AFL and 10.2 disposals in his second year. As well as playing half back, McLeoad also played as a half forward. He averaged 1.1 goals per game in his first 2 years.

McLeod didn't play his first game in the midfield until late in 1997, his third year in the AFL.

How quickly a player adjusts to AFL depends on what weapons they bring to AFL. Neither Bunji or Curtin were midfielders when drafted, so they both lacked midfield craft.

Bunji was talented but a bit unfit. It took him some seasons to get to AFL fitness.

Curtin's weapons are his work and poise in the contest and his size. The poise is something that you would expect to translate pretty early to AFL. But it will take some time for size and contested work to step up to playing against men. Unlike guys with very a good outside game, because speed and uncontested possessions aren't really impacted by playing against men (although fitness will play a part).

I think that we give Curtin a couple of years to find his feet. Play him at half back and half forward. But just play him.

And if he turns into an All Australian half back instead of a third mid, surely that helps us win a flag? Who's the last premiership side to win a flag without a gun creative backman to go with their gun midfielder?

 

[Scorpus]

Like Curtin, Andrew McLeaod was drafted as a half back.

McLeod averaged 10.8 disposlas in his first year at AFL and 10.2 disposals in his second year. As well as playing half back, McLeoad also played as a half forward. He averaged 1.1 goals per game in his first 2 years.

McLeod didn't play his first game in the midfield until late in 1997, his third year in the AFL.

How quickly a player adjusts to AFL depends on what weapons they bring to AFL. Neither Bunji or Curtin were midfielders when drafted, so they both lacked midfield craft.

Bunji was talented but a bit unfit. It took him some seasons to get to AFL fitness.

Curtin's weapons are his work and poise in the contest and his size. The poise is something that you would expect to translate pretty early to AFL. But it will take some time for size and contested work to step up to playing against men. Unlike guys with very a good outside game, because speed and uncontested possessions aren't really impacted by playing against men (although fitness will play a part).

I think that we give Curtin a couple of years to find his feet. Play him at half back and half forward. But just play him.

And if he turns into an All Australian half back instead of a third mid, surely that helps us win a flag? Who's the last premiership side to win a flag without a gun creative backman to go with their gun midfielder?

This discussion goes back to a point made that Curtin wouldn't be front and center in 2025.

My opinion is that elite players actually should be front and center early in their career, because they are elite. And that Crows fans have forgotten how quickly a top end player can impact, because we have spent years pushing them out of important roles

McLeod is actually a great example of this. He was a Norm Smith medallist in his third season. He was elite and he showed it early. He played a crucial role for us in that flag.

Even more recently, Brodie Smith off half back was averaging 17 touches a game in his second season. All Australian in his fourth season.

Hiding Curtin in the back pocket or giving him an unclear role is not the way. If he's elite, give him the roles to shine. Prioritize him. Don't make him play key defense in the SANFL simply because he's tall.

If we think he's not going to be an inside midfielder and instead a half back, or outside player, sure. That's fine. But put him in that role, leave him in that role, develop him, let him show his strengths. Don't play him as a key defender in the SANFL then two weeks later rotate him between the midfield and forward line at AFL level.

 

[Big Dub]

This discussion goes back to a point made that Curtin wouldn't be front and center in 2025.

My opinion is that elite players actually should be front and center early in their career, because they are elite. And that Crows fans have forgotten how quickly a top end player can impact, because we have spent years pushing them out of important roles

McLeod is actually a great example of this. He was a Norm Smith medallist in his third season. He was elite and he showed it early. He played a crucial role for us in that flag.

Even more recently, Brodie Smith off half back was averaging 17 touches a game in his second season. All Australian in his fourth season.

Hiding Curtin in the back pocket or giving him an unclear role is not the way. If he's elite, give him the roles to shine. Prioritize him. Don't make him play key defense in the SANFL simply because he's tall.

If we think he's not going to be an inside midfielder and instead a half back, or outside player, sure. That's fine. But put him in that role, leave him in that role, develop him, let him show his strengths. Don't play him as a key defender in the SANFL then two weeks later rotate him between the midfield and forward line at AFL level.

I agree. Curtin should never have been played as a key defender at SANFL. Put Gollant on the monster forwards if you have to.

Foe me, Curtin's best role is the Brodie Smith one you described. Let him ran and create play. But we do need to not leak too many goals.

The "problem" with Curtin, is that he is a utility and can play well in an number of areas on the ground. I don't think it's midfield yet, but I think he can play half back or half forward really well in his second/ third year. I do think that je can impact by the end of next year.

 

[DJ75]

Reading talk about pick 4 playing round 1 when I'm not convinced Nicks will even pick Curtin.