#21 - Braydon Preuss - Dropping bombs from outside 50 cause that's what ruckmen do

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Toump Ass said:
I'm up for trading him but I'd expect at least 2 first round picks + a pick upgrade.
Think of all the IP he would come with working under the greatest ruckman of all time.
Longer he stays on our list the higher his price goes IMO. Regardless of whether or not he plays any games.
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True. Wouldn't want him to impart any of his learnings elsewhere. Wise as always, Jimmy
 
dazzledavey36 said:
Having Pruess on our list is smart list management. The club went after Pruess on the back of Gawn being physically bullied by Lycett in the Prelim final and also just having there as an insurance. It was then they realised Gawn needed a decent chop out. The one game that Gawn missed last year was against Carlton, and Pruess came in and gave Kruezer a lesson. It was a small glimpse of what he's capable off.

While he's body has been quite sound, it only takes for him to rip his hammy off his bone or hurt his knee like he did in the pre season, then that's where all of a sudden Pruess becomes the main man and we've already covered him off. Sure he might not be up to the same standard as Gawn, but barely any ruckman in the AFL are.

What Pruess does provide thats different to Gawn is physicality. I see him in the same vein as a Shame Mumford for instance.

Just on Pruess, over the pre season the guy stripped off 8 kilos so that he could cover the ground more. Apparently this was off the back of strong advice off Gawn and reports were of him really burning up the training track before he too went got injured right before the season started.

While I would be super disappointed if Gawn had to miss a couple of weeks through injury, i also would be at ease knowing that Pruess would come in and fill the role just as fine.
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Read my post again. Is the 4 year deal smart list management? Try and ****ing spin that
 

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saj_21 said:
Hibberd AA in 17, good in 18, rubbish 19.

melks missed a year in 16. From mid 17 to 18, he was very good and one of the best kicks going inside 50. 19 was write after he injured his foot. This year he is struggling.

Get over the hard cap, we haven’t lost anyone due to salary cap squeeze so the club has managed its finances well. All players are “overpaid” you have to pay 95% of the salary cap. So unless you lose players because of a squeeze money isn’t an issue.

I’d say our 15 years of rubbish was on the back of extremely poor leadership from the club heirachy encourage a losing mentality and poor development/along with poor recruiting.

paying a tall back up $150 extra is the Least of problems.

Vince garlett Cross lever May melks hibbered all improved our club
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As I said your bar for success is much lower then mine as evidenced by your reply, I don’t know if I should be forgetting about the hard cap, the one and only mechanism used by the AFL and all 18 clubs to dictate what every player in the league gets paid, I think our club should think about it a bit more before they dish out 4 year million dollar contracts to back ups.

As I’ve said the Pruess deal in isolation isn’t The end of the world, mistakes are made and I can live with him being the back up ruck but theres a reason he chose Melbourne and it wasn’t a promise of games and unrestricted opportunities, it’s was because he’s getting 1.6 million for 4 years, and that’s ridiculous, as is KK being under contract until the end of next year.

Our clubs made the finals once in 15 years, and the reason for that is incompetence from top to bottom, the Pruess and KK deals are just 2 very good examples of the problem.
 
A11dAtP0w3R said:
Coz you know exactly what deals have been offered and any that were knocked back. We get everyone we want. 🙄

Come on mate.
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who have we missed on then?

it’s a very transparent market these days, the media get most of the whispers these days.
 
A11dAtP0w3R said:
What are we missing? it's pretty simplistic to just say he's being paid only 150k more than a league minimum. What happens if that 150k more is able to be offered to a big name, and turns out to be the decider and is the difference between a player coming to our club or going somewhere else instead.
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Yep and that’s 150k every year, or 600k extra to a bloke you hope doesn’t see the field
 
Demon bhoy said:
As I said your bar for success is much lower then mine as evidenced by your reply, I don’t know if I should be forgetting about the hard cap, the one and only mechanism used by the AFL and all 18 clubs to dictate what every player in the league gets paid, I think our club should think about it a bit more before they dish out 4 year million dollar contracts to back ups.

As I’ve said the Pruess deal in isolation isn’t The end of the world, mistakes are made and I can live with him being the back up ruck but theres a reason he chose Melbourne and it wasn’t a promise of games and unrestricted opportunities, it’s was because he’s getting 1.6 million for 4 years, and that’s ridiculous, as is KK being under contract until the end of next year.

Our clubs made the finals once in 15 years, and the reason for that is incompetence from top to bottom, the Pruess and KK deals are just 2 very good examples of the problem.
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yep we should deal in getting repeat all aus players and Brownlow medalists.

what part of the Hibberd or Melksham deals weren’t good? They filled the needs and helped us drive towards a prelim final.

KK is looking like a bust, but name
One club that nails every trade deal.

your premise is we should only trade players who Are going to be superstars and anything less is a failure
 
saj_21 said:
yep we should deal in getting repeat all aus players and Brownlow medalists.

what part of the Hibberd or Melksham deals weren’t good? They filled the needs and helped us drive towards a prelim final.

KK is looking like a bust, but name
One club that nails every trade deal.

your premise is we should only trade players who Are going to be superstars and anything less is a failure
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We can’t afford Brownlow medalists and AA we over pay for for supposed superstars and back ups and offer contracts for 3 years to blokes with chronic head injuries, that’s the thing with hard caps there is only so much to go around better spend it wisely.

As I said you and me have different bars set for what constitutes success, Hibberd 1 great year, meh since and melks hasn’t had a kick since 18 and is very lucky to be playing, having said that I don’t have any issues with either player, they have been ok and aren’t being stupidity overpaid
 
Demon bhoy said:
We can’t afford Brownlow medalists and AA we over pay for for supposed superstars and back ups and offer contracts for 3 years to blokes with chronic head injuries, that’s the thing with hard caps there is only so much to go around better spend it wisely.

As I said you and me have different bars set for what constitutes success, Hibberd 1 great year, meh since and melks hasn’t had a kick since 18 and is very lucky to be playing, having said that I don’t have any issues with either player, they have been ok and aren’t being stupidity overpaid
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no one has answered who we have missed on? What superstars have we targeted and missed because we are paying pruess

All because we are paying slightly overs for pruess. We aren’t north or freo who continually miss super stars.

If you are using the pruess deal as an example of our 15 years of mediocrity, there is a lot more to delve into before we worry about that.

we haven’t had a history of over paying players. Fact is we need a back ready made ruck so if we weren’t paying pruess we would be paying someone similar. And then we’d have to waste picks on bringing another ruck in and there is a merry go round of players.

you’d would have to scrutinise the lever/May deals we coughed up high picks and dollars. They are super important to our chances of success, and if they fail they will have 100% cost us a chance at another player.

also to keep in mind, the list and salary caps will be cut in the coming years.

there would be plenty of clubs who have fringe players on similar coin to preuss. All big me get more time to develop in the system and can attract some increase deals due to requirement of clubs needing them I.e. Sam Draper deal proposes by the saints
 
Pay slightly overs for Preuss?

Are you high? He is being paid 3x more than he is worth!

The year we signed Preuss was the same offseason that we stuck out with Gaff.

" Fact is we need a back ready made ruck so if we weren’t paying pruess we would be paying someone similar. " Name another back-up ruck that's pulling in $400k a year to play in the reserves.
 
TheBoss said:
Pay slightly overs for Preuss?

Are you high? He is being paid 3x more than he is worth!

The year we signed Preuss was the same offseason that we stuck out with Gaff.

" Fact is we need a back ready made ruck so if we weren’t paying pruess we would be paying someone similar. " Name another back-up ruck that's pulling in $400k a year to play in the reserves.
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The saints offered Sam Draper the same deal 2 weeks after he did his ACL.

We’d be paying $200-$250k for anyone else so minus the difference.

$200k out of $12-$13 million
 

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Paddy Ryder on $300k to be a back up at the saints
 
TheBoss said:
So the Saints are paying less money for a better player.

Your Preuss argument isn't holding up.
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not debating the skill level, but they are paying a similar amount for a back up ruck

my argument is we would having To be paying someone as a back up for a similar. We could get better value for sure. But the pruess deal isn’t outrageous Or a major blunder by the club
 
Our entire game plan revolves around Maxy being dominate giving our kids first use.

Having one of the best back up rucks sitting in the background isn’t the worst outcome. If Gawn goes down Pruess is straight into the side make no mistake
 
saj_21 said:
no one has answered who we have missed on? What superstars have we targeted and missed because we are paying pruess

All because we are paying slightly overs for pruess. We aren’t north or freo who continually miss super stars.

If you are using the pruess deal as an example of our 15 years of mediocrity, there is a lot more to delve into before we worry about that.

we haven’t had a history of over paying players. Fact is we need a back ready made ruck so if we weren’t paying pruess we would be paying someone similar. And then we’d have to waste picks on bringing another ruck in and there is a merry go round of players.

you’d would have to scrutinise the lever/May deals we coughed up high picks and dollars. They are super important to our chances of success, and if they fail they will have 100% cost us a chance at another player.

also to keep in mind, the list and salary caps will be cut in the coming years.

there would be plenty of clubs who have fringe players on similar coin to preuss. All big me get more time to develop in the system and can attract some increase deals due to requirement of clubs needing them I.e. Sam Draper deal proposes by the saints
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Not a good idea to be locked into long term deals with blokes who either can’t play or you don’t want to if the cap and list numbers are coming down
 
Demon bhoy said:
Not a good idea to be locked into long term deals with blokes who either can’t play or you don’t want to if the cap and list numbers are coming down
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yeah the list managers should of predicted this pandemic and the ass of the league falling out because no one could attend games
 
saj_21 said:
yeah the list managers should of predicted this pandemic and the ass of the league falling out because no one could attend games
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I wasn’t making a point one way or the other, just noting it’s a shit time to have shit contracts based on your post, but it’s never a good time to be incompetent pandemic or not
 
saj_21 said:
not debating the skill level, but they are paying a similar amount for a back up ruck

my argument is we would having To be paying someone as a back up for a similar. We could get better value for sure. But the pruess deal isn’t outrageous Or a major blunder by the club
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Paddy Ryder - $600,000 over 2 years
Braydon Preuss - $1,600,000 over 4 years

How are these amounts similar?

Preuss is locked in for an additional two years, and is being paid 33% more annually
 
Other thing is our game style is built around a strong tap ruckman. If Gawn goes down, Preuss can more or less step in given his size. If we are forced to use Tmac/Tomlinson then we give up our advantage to achieving our obsession with contested ball.

And it's all about that contested ball
 
TheBoss said:
Paddy Ryder - $600,000 over 2 years
Braydon Preuss - $1,600,000 over 4 years

How are these amounts similar?

Preuss is locked in for an additional two years, and is being paid 33% more annually
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your getting stuck on the specifics, I’m saying take names out of it. You need to see, we need a back up and would be paying someone $200-$400k for this role. The less you pay the less ready made the player is or in Ryders case over the hill.

So Ryder moves on from the saints And they have to find a compete rookie who isn’t ready Or pinch a ready made back up for the same or more.

you could argue locking preuss in at $400k year could save us money, imagine no COVID and the salary cap increases in 2 years time, you have no back up and the market demands you cough up more dollars.
 
" you could argue locking preuss in at $400k year could save us money, imagine no COVID and the salary cap increases in 2 years time, you have no back up and the market demands you cough up more dollars. "

That is absurd - that would only work if the salary cap jumped 50%.

How do you forsee that happening? It is doubtful that it will come via a new TV deal as rumours are that Foxtel and FTA networks are cooling on live sports which will supress the value of the next deal.

I am dumbfounded that you refuse to concede that paying reserves well in excess of the average AFL salary is bad list management.

There are so many proven AFL level players that do not get the security of a long-term deal, let alone the lucrative salary that Preuss is getting.
 

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#21 - Braydon Preuss - Dropping bombs from outside 50 cause that's what ruckmen do

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