Traded #22: Jake Carlisle - Pt.1 - Traded with some other stuff for pick 5, 24 and a Bird (cont in Part 2)

[fishardansin]

It's a fair bet as we have priced him out of other clubs with a front ended contract.
In the end if we don't get him, we'll still have NSD 5.
I guess that's why the Saints are holding firm, especially after the statement from Carlilse's camp saying he's committed to the Saints.
I hope a deal is settled soon but there are a few stalled ones this year. Interesting that the media aren't as harsh on GCS & Port over Dixon or GWS & Coll over Treloar deals not going thru yet.



Over 40 years on this earth.......Just once Saints......PLEASE!

You haven't priced him out of the market. Front loading is bullcrap. It's about the average over the deal. Teams who weren't prepared to stump up the cash probably will if they don't have to give up draft picks. This includes Essendon.

 

[Mr_McBoogerBalls]

It is frustrating Saints supporters cannot see he is worth 5. It seems pretty clear to me.

Herein lies the problem, they do value him highly and do want him, but they don't want their club to make a fair trade for him. Speaks volumes to the kind of people who support that club.

Look at the Hawks offer for Carlisle, no bs, fair trade and efficient dealings; which says a lot considering they are one of our biggest rivals.

 

[fishardansin]

It's a fair bet as we have priced him out of other clubs with a front ended contract.
In the end if we don't get him, we'll still have NSD 5.
I guess that's why the Saints are holding firm, especially after the statement from Carlilse's camp saying he's committed to the Saints.
I hope a deal is settled soon but there are a few stalled ones this year. Interesting that the media aren't as harsh on GCS & Port over Dixon or GWS & Coll over Treloar deals not going thru yet.



Over 40 years on this earth.......Just once Saints......PLEASE!

Because both teams have put a big price on the table for the player. Carlisle is so far in front of Dixon it's not funny. He's a better back than forward, but still a better forward that Dixon. Pick 10 is already on the table and they may stump up more.

Saints offering stupid deals doesn't help. What if Dodoro was asking for 5 and 24 for Carlisle? It would be pointless.

 

[MadSaint66]

Pick 5 is around fair. If we chuck in our 3rd that is also fair. Many think if we chuck in our second that makes it unders but in accordance with the OOC situation.

My post you have quoted shows how many clubs pay fair value for OOC players and how sometimes players in contract don't lead to fair deals.

Saints look like spankers for chasing Jake and then offering unders, a bit like a club shopping Yarran around and demanding a first round pick.

Last I checked, the Dixon and Treloar deals are still up in the air. Why? Because OOC muddies the water, as it has in the Carlilse deal.
Just not being played out as publicly.



Over 40 years on this earth.......Just once Saints......PLEASE!

 

[yodellinhank]

The Hun says that the AFL will only agree to the GWS-style trade if the net change in points is >200 points. Hawthorn could try and trade GWS 15 and 18 for 8, but the difference is about 500 points there, so the AFL would block it. I think we have the 2 picks that give the highest benefit to GWS without breaking that 200 point barrier, at least at this stage.

Also with picks 4 & 5, a nod and a wink we can save gws bidding until pick 6, which in essence gives them a 2nd rounder

 

[Burzum]

I nominate that we ban any St. Kilda supporter that mentions the PSD.

 

[fishardansin]

Herein lies the problem, they do value him highly and do want him, but they don't want their club to make a fair trade for him. Speaks volumes to the kind of people who support that club.

Look at the Hawks offer for Carlisle, no bs, fair trade and efficient dealings; which says a lot considering they are one of our biggest rivals.

That's the thing that gets me. Their behaviour makes no sense at all. Persuade a player to come to the club with big money, but offer peanuts for him. If Essendon were shopping him around then sure, you'd low ball them at first.

Can you imagine walking into a car yard and seeing a $60k car having a $65k sticker on it and then offering them $20k plus a $5k trade in then later offering them $60k but demanding $35k in extras added to it. Salesmen will often piss you off for being a time waster.

Hawks had a deal on the table that Dodoro said yes to straight away. Saints will have more to gain from Jake than Hawks. Hawks have just 1 maybe two more years challenging. Saints will be right up there when Jake is 27-29 and he'll be the centre piece to their backline.

Giving up two players in the top 20 will hurt Hawks now as well. These are quality young players that they need to keep rotating in their squad before they probably have to rebuild properly soon.

Freeman and Carlisle fall into your laps, give up both 1st and 2nd. You add a quality mid and add the piece of your spine that is missing.

Get the deal done and parade them I front of your fans and get ready for a big preseason. Carlisle and 41 for pick 5. Pick 24 and 41 for Freeman. Easy.

 

[TheFrenchCut]

The weirdest thing about this situation to me is that even if we could get pick 5 for Buckets, I would rather have kept Buckets. Obviously pick 5 is nice, and providing you're not a douchebag, you'll get a good player. But keeping a young gun KPD that can regularly win the ball back via intercept marks and provide a bit of rebound out of defence, lock down on an opponent & swing forward is much more preferable.

Of course, that view also exists in a world where Carlisle didn't want to leave, and his teammates wanted him to stay.

 

[Mr_McBoogerBalls]

That's the thing that gets me. Their behaviour makes no sense at all. Persuade a player to come to the club with big money, but offer peanuts for him. If Essendon were shopping him around then sure, you'd low ball them at first.

Can you imagine walking into a car yard and seeing a $60k car having a $65k sticker on it and then offering them $20k plus a $5k trade in then later offering them $60k but demanding $35k in extras added to it. Salesmen will often piss you off for being a time waster.

Hawks had a deal on the table that Dodoro said yes to straight away. Saints will have more to gain from Jake than Hawks. Hawks have just 1 maybe two more years challenging. Saints will be right up there when Jake is 27-29 and he'll be the centre piece to their backline.

Giving up two players in the top 20 will hurt Hawks now as well. These are quality young players that they need to keep rotating in their squad before they probably have to rebuild properly soon.

Freeman and Carlisle fall into your laps, give up both 1st and 2nd. You add a quality mid and add the piece of your spine that is missing.

Get the deal done and parade them I front of your fans and get ready for a big preseason. Carlisle and 41 for pick 5. Pick 24 and 41 for Freeman. Easy.

Well worded post.

 

[Loonerty]

Apparently another warning is needed. Any opposition supporters who are abusive or go off topic in any way will be given cards. We are sick of it.


Essendon supporters you are not absolved of blame either. Do NOT feed the trolls.

 

[Rack Watts]

I agree, his potential best is at a very high level. I would have preferred he stayed for sure. Don't even look at his year this year, he had an injury interrupted pre-season and was thrown around forward and back this year and it certainly held him back.

It is frustrating Saints supporters cannot see he is worth 5. It seems pretty clear to me.

Unfortunately, they won't realize how worth, until they've already paid nothing for him.
But hey, that's the life of an Essendon fan.

 

[Mr_McBoogerBalls]

Lol

 

[The Bomb]

Curnow and Parish are going to look great in EFC colours

Sorry to break this to you, but Francis & his family are mad Essendon supporters and Francis missed the combine due to stress on his body, and because he didn't want to get injued.
I smell something fishy...

 

[Fear Boner]

I nominate that we ban any St. Kilda supporter that mentions the PSD.

I'll 2nd that

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

Sorry to break this to you, but Francis & his family are mad Essendon supporters and Francis missed the combine due to stress on his body, and because he didn't want to get injued.
I smell something fishy...

Haha, i'd love that, but I think he'll go at 3..

 

[Kingofthehill]

Haha, I'd be cool, but I think he'll go at 3..

I don't think so. GC were happy to trade 3 for 6 and Howe suggesting who ever their looking at will probably go a bit higher. Maybe[/QUOTE]

 

[The Bomb]

We will get Francis, Francis is really keen to come to Essendon.
Carlisle trade is the only thing which could get in the way if we dont get pick 5.
Parish vs Francis is hard to seperate.

 

[Marley10]

Can we just speed up the bargaining process?

It'll go like this.

Dodoro: pick 5 straight swap
Bains: Pick 5 and 63 for Carlisle + 23 and 25
Dodoro: Pick 5 for Carlisle + 44
Bains: Pick 5 for Carlisle and 23
Dodoro: Pick 5 for Carlisle and 25
Bains: No
Dodoro: Yes
Bains: No
Dodoro: Yes
Bains: I'm going to tell the media, Carlisle and his manager that you're difficult to deal with
Dodoro: Okay I'll talk to Hawthorn and convince Carlisle
Bains: And I'll tell him to consider the PSD
Dodoro: But he isn't going to do that
Bains: Yes
Dodoro: No
Bains: Yes
Dodoro: No
Bains: Yes
Dodoro: Yes
Bains: No
Dodoro: Now that we can agree that he won't go to the PSD, I'll talk to Hawthorn
Bains: Wait what?...... Fine deal.
Dodoro: Deal

St Kilda
OUT: Pick 5
In: Carlisle + 25

Essendon
OUT: Carlisle + 25
IN: Pick 5

Just do it Monday before Hawthorn do something with their other picks.

 

[fishardansin]

Sorry to break this to you, but Francis & his family are mad Essendon supporters and Francis missed the combine due to stress on his body, and because he didn't want to get injued.
I smell something fishy...

I'll shower later.

 

[Beerfish]

I nominate that we ban any St. Kilda supporter that mentions the PSD.

Done. Report as necessary.

 

[amos]

St Kilda
OUT: Pick 5
In: Carlisle + 25

Essendon
OUT: Carlisle + 25
IN: Pick 5

Just do it Monday before Hawthorn do something with their other picks.

Hi guys, I won't be long so sorry for the intrusion, but I'm curious, I'm noticing a lot of Essendon fans are happy with this trade above. Wouldn't giving up 25 on the return eliminate Essendon from potentially offering 23 & 25 to GWS's 8 (affording GWS more points for their academy selections). FWIW, I'm not fussed in we get Carlisle or not because we've been out of the first round of drafting for that many years, there's never anything to look forward to on draft day. But, if I were a Bomber fan, I'd want pick 5, FULL STOP, or 15 and 18 FULL STOP. The return picks, screw that, not if I'm letting someone of Carlisle's ilk go, but is that not the consensus here?

 

[Dave]

I'm not suggesting it will happen but it's happened before and for us, it's the same result as doing the trade and there is no risk involved whatsoever. For Ess it's a disastrous result.

Collingwood used pick 5 on Luke Ball? Well I never!

 

[Mercuri Rising]

Hi guys, I won't be long so sorry for the intrusion, but I'm curious, I'm noticing a lot of Essendon fans are happy with this trade above. Wouldn't giving up 25 on the return eliminate Essendon from potentially offering 23 & 25 to GWS's 8 (affording GWS more points for their academy selections). FWIW, I'm not fussed in we get Carlisle or not because we've been out of the first round of drafting for that many years, there's never anything to look forward to on draft day. But, if I were a Bomber fan, I'd want pick 5, FULL STOP, or 15 and 18 FULL STOP. The return picks, screw that, not if I'm letting someone of Carlisle's ilk go, but is that not the consensus here?

I think something like 5 for 41 is the best most of us are realistically hoping for, expecting that 5 for 23 or 5 for 25 will be actually what gets it done. Straight swap would be great of course, but the end result of all this Carlisle + 23 + 25 ****ery is that 23 OR 25 starts to look like a reasonable middle-ground.

The whole pick 8 thing is a bit nebulous - the only way it looks like happening is if this whole "<200 points" thing in the Hun is actually legit. So not really thinking about that too much atm.

 

[lenny2013]

Hi guys, I won't be long so sorry for the intrusion, but I'm curious, I'm noticing a lot of Essendon fans are happy with this trade above. Wouldn't giving up 25 on the return eliminate Essendon from potentially offering 23 & 25 to GWS's 8 (affording GWS more points for their academy selections). FWIW, I'm not fussed in we get Carlisle or not because we've been out of the first round of drafting for that many years, there's never anything to look forward to on draft day. But, if I were a Bomber fan, I'd want pick 5, FULL STOP, or 15 and 18 FULL STOP. The return picks, screw that, not if I'm letting someone of Carlisle's ilk go, but is that not the consensus here?

Correctamundo!

Our maximum offer should be Carlisle & 41 for Pick 5.

 

[The Bomb]

No
Our maximum should be Carlisle and 25 for pick 5.

They can use pick 5 in the national draft and keep us 1 gun player less on our list for a decade, so we need to convince them with something of worth as to why they should help strengthen us for the next decade. by giving them 25 we have also helped strengthen them, but has alot more ??? to it