3 years under Hardwick...have we really improved?

[Tiger_4_Life]

I don't want dimmas head... Far from it. But what I want like every fan is to see these dumb dumb mistakes that Richmond has patented over the last 10 years to
eliminated. I would've hoped that with our drafting policy of efficient users of the ball that we would start seeing our skill errors diminish and start carving opposition teams up but all I've seen in the last 7 weeks is zero composure and rushed long bombs out of defense or into the forward line that always bite us in the bum as we saw last night. I guess the rebuild during expansion is going to cost us big time. In the light of day I know we have improved under Hardwick but I guess I was hoping to see a lot more at this stage.

I'm 29... Member for 21 years and seen little success. I love my tiges but last night I really had to question if I can continue to follow them with the same passion I have all my life. I fear that this is our last chance to get it right before our loyal supporters step back. I'll always be a member but the passion is being questioned. I really want to see us strip the list back again this year. No more mcguanes and no more Graham types on our list.

 

[the push up king]

avg. losing margin 2011 - 40 points
avg. losing margin 2012 - 14.5
thats a resounding YES!!!!

im off to celebrate bringing up the century

 

[Bazzar]

Our worst loss this year was round 1 to Carton by 44pts, they had 14 extra scoring shots. A shocker.

Then the Pies 21pt loss and 1 fewer shot. Suns 2pt loss and 2 fewer shots

We lost to the Eagles and Cats both by 10pts, and on both occasions had the same amount of shots.

Then every other loss for the year we have had more scoring shots than our opponent.

 

[KickittoRicho]

One thing I found interesting during last nights coverage was Benny Gale claiming the club is 'duty bound' to investigate the Travis Cloke situation if there is a chance he will not be at Collingwood next season.

Following those lines, I believe he is also duty bound to sit down and have a chat with Mick Malthouse.

I think Hardwick is still the right guy to take this club forwards, but he is really failing in some key matchday areas. This could be rectified with Malthouse performing the same role as a Neil Craig, Rodney Eade or Mark Thompson at their respective clubs.

 

[theflea]

One thing I found interesting during last nights coverage was Benny Gale claiming the club is 'duty bound' to investigate the Travis Cloke situation if there is a chance he will not be at Collingwood next season.

Following those lines, I believe he is also duty bound to sit down and have a chat with Mick Malthouse.

I think Hardwick is still the right guy to take this club forwards, but he is really failing in some key matchday areas. This could be rectified with Malthouse performing the same role as a Neil Craig, Rodney Eade or Mark Thompson at their respective clubs.

in all things like yesterday mm would just throw his hands in the air and say to some of our players 'you cant play'. the simple fact is we dont have the cattle. how is neil craig going for melb?

 

[tigerfan1961]

in all things like yesterday mm would just throw his hands in the air and say to some of our players 'you cant play'. the simple fact is we dont have the cattle. how is neil craig going for melb?

Well said- all to do with the cattle, not the Coach!! Not his fault that there were some absolute howler turnovers the last 3 games.

 

[mcuzzy]

avg. losing margin 2011 - 40 points
avg. losing margin 2012 - 14.5
thats a resounding YES!!!!

im off to celebrate bringing up the century

this needs to be posted on the main board.

i always say we've improved and are playing far better. ignorant idiots just say 'derp you're 12th and you were 12th last year'

yeah, we also lost games by close to 100 points

 

[aislegi]

Ah, so it's not really a problem that we are a mediocre outfit that can't perform to the same standard each week because we were even worse last year. I can see a range of t-shirts in the Tiger Den: "Punt Road: Not as bad as it was"; or perhaps a range of "40-14.5" hoodies. Perhaps not quite as good as Geelong's "2007-09-11" range, though.

 

[cairo tiger]

this needs to be posted on the main board.

i always say we've improved and are playing far better. ignorant idiots just say 'derp you're 12th and you were 12th last year'

yeah, we also lost games by close to 100 points

but we simple should be winning the games we can and we cant......

 

[tigerz18]

had we had a little bit more luck and a little bit more composure - we would have won 4-5 of the close games.
GC - brain fades in the last 90 secs
NM - Brain fades in the last 4 minutes
Carlton - 1 lucky bounce with 40 secs to go
Geelong
Freo
WC
all winnable games - that's 6 that we were in it until the last few minutes. We are much better placed than we have for the last 2 years. we win 4-5 and we are finals bound and every is wanting to give Hardwick a BJ.

We are on the improve and with a fit, functioning forward line next year, and a backline that can stay fit, we should be finals bound next year

 

[Blood Meridian]

The demands of excellence have taken much longer in implementation than many of us have patience for. It's gone beyond frustrating. Most of the supporters understand the deficiencies in the list, the ill-timed rebuild during expansion, the lack of depth and player turnover. What we don't understand is the capitulation under pressure. What we don't have time for is the empathy for mediocrity. 30 years in the wilderness appears to be having two effects on our supporter base. One half seem to be turning into St Kilda supporters while the others are wildly reactionary.

 

[the push up king]

the funny thing is, last year we win the games we should have.... which include the port and gold coast shambles and norf in the last round and we finish 6th
we win the close games this year and were on 13 - 4 ( give or take one or two).
i think it just comes down to experience and more depth that will see us winning our fair share of close ones.
The great form we displayed the early to mid part of the year was with a complete full squad and over shadowed a severe lack of depth we have as a team. Now that that lack of depth is being tested we are not winning close ones.... some might say that we had close games at the start of the year, this is true....with full squads against very good teams.... personally i am very excited to see what Francis Jackson has to offer over the break. A few more marics, griggs and morris' will go a long way!!
than it will be good bye to mc guane, a.maric, moore, post, ellis, dea, conca, king who all shouldnt be in our best 22

 

[Tigerbob]

Ellis, Conca and to a lesser extent Dea?

 

[the push up king]

Ellis, Conca and to a lesser extent Dea?

ellis in his first year, dea practically in his first year, and conca experiencing a disappointing patchy year should all be emergencies in a richmond team that wants to be taken seriously( based on this year.... not withstanding unproven potential)

 

[Tigerbob]

ellis in his first year, dea practically in his first year, and conca experiencing a disappointing patchy year should all be emergencies in a richmond team that wants to be taken seriously( based on this year.... not withstanding unproven potential)

I think that comes down to depth, but I am comfortable with all three being in the 22. Dea lacks confidence to back himself, but he makes some good defensive stops. The quicker we get 50 games into these three along with Griffiths, Batchelor, Grimes, Astbury and Helbig the better we will be. I still have high hopes for Dea. Ellis and Conca will be very good players.

 

[the push up king]

I think that comes down to depth, but I am comfortable with all three being in the 22. Dea lacks confidence to back himself, but he makes some good defensive stops. The quicker we get 50 games into these three along with Griffiths, Batchelor, Grimes, Astbury and Helbig the better we will be. I still have high hopes for Dea. Ellis and Conca will be very good players.

i also share your high hopes, just referring to this years either form or experience
you've been a busy man today TB, at this rate i would say with those 2800 odd posts you might of signed up last tuesday

 

[Tigerbob]

i also share your high hopes, just referring to this years either form or experience
you've been a busy man today TB, at this rate i would say with those 2800 odd posts you might of signed up last tuesday

LOL

Put it down to a recently broken ankle. Recovering. Can't do much and mates this weekend went trecking/camping so I am stuck at home watching the Olympics instead. The missus in Daylesford with her mum too so yeah I have got busy. Blaming my mood swings on the pain killers.

 

[Bruce Monteath]

I was critical of the decision to extend Dimma's contract at the start of this year. I thought we should see how the year panned out and more than likely signed him up at around this point - as long as we had shown reasonable improvement.

As it turns out, I think we're still on an upward curve and he's earned another couple of years.

What I wouldn't mind though is an experienced coach for him to bounce ideas off. I had a thought that, rather than a Director of Coaching who may upset Dimma by constantly looking over his shoulder - what about a structured mentoring role?

What if we approached, say for instance, Mick Malthouse, and said Mick - here's $100k a year to mentor Dimma. You analyse the list and structures and meet up with Dimma once a month for a couple of hours and thrash it out.

We would have to monitor the arrangement closely to see it wasn't creating problems and Mick would have to manage any conflict of interest concerns, but I would love to see Dimma getting some great advice from someone with a depth of experience. It's not like the assistants have a wealth to draw upon.

 

[Blaz]

Malthouse as an assistant Coach maybe?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Malthouse as an assistant Coach maybe?

He didn't want to be an assistant under Bucks why would he under Dimma?

 

[Bazzar]

He didn't want to be an assistant under Bucks why would he under Dimma?

I dont think he would do it, but with Collingwood it was his team and he won a flag, to then drop a rung and have his assistant become boss would be to hard to handle. At least with Hardwick he would be coming home fresh to help out. If he doesnt go to Carlton he could be a good match for the Tiges.

 

[1980]

Lol, as a bloke who has run multimillion dollar businesses, I'll throw you a line which your boss will love. Let him know "a budget is a guide to which you run your business too". He/she will love it.
The 3-0-75 initiative was based on a five year plan. We are literally at the half way mark of the plan. Finals was a consideration, but, next year was always the year to bear fruit. If we had of made it this year, we would have actually been performing above expectations. Make no mistake about that.
My advice, put your dick back in your pants, and keep your powder dry until next season. Should we miss next year, I will imagine there will be some "uncomfortable" conversations being held at a couple of levels
Footy is also a fickle sport. What we all got reminded of today of how bad our 2010 list was. Today's squad is not a reflection of our best 22. Think about it, our injuries are that bad, we just rushed a bloke in who hasn't played senior football in two years. Dimma can only use the cattle he has. Jesus couldn't have selected a better squad to enact his game plan today could he?

Thanks for the advice Alan Bond.

 

[1980]

Question to anyone has ever coached. Ever tried doing so with 2 blokes that you know can match the opposition at clearances and only 1 ruckman. Because thats the exact circumstance Hardwick finds himself in.
Tuck and Cotchin are the only 2 players we have that can consistantly win contested footy and put it to our advantage .
With that in mind it's little wonder we are being smacked late in quarters and our opposition are able to score easily at times from clearnce situations.
We have drafted just 3, ( Cotchin, Martin and Arnott ) pure mids since 2006 ( 6 drafts ). Whilst Cousins is the only midfielder amongst a huge array of flankers / pockets that we have traded or rookied, within the same time.
I actually feel sorry for Dimma he just doesn't have the players !

What separates good coaches from average coaches is overcoming deficiencies in recruitment and setbacks from injury. Have yet to meet a coach that has ever had the luxury of having the best 22 players every week at his disposal for an entire season. Nor has a team ever drafted perfectly and gone into a season without a gap in its sturcture that the next draft will help solve.

Injuries and the like are part of the game. Coaches are there to work around, fix and overcome the gaps.

 

[1980]

We have improved, though the fact we should have but didnt make the finals puts Hardwick under a lot of pressure to start next season off well.

I think he will come under a lot more scrutiny as a match day coach next season. He was never known as a student of the game as a player- just a dirty thug and a sniper.

Which is why his strength has been developing the team and his weakness coaching on game day.

 

[Bazzar]

Question to anyone has ever coached. Ever tried doing so with 2 blokes that you know can match the opposition at clearances and only 1 ruckman. Because thats the exact circumstance Hardwick finds himself in.
Tuck and Cotchin are the only 2 players we have that can consistantly win contested footy and put it to our advantage .
With that in mind it's little wonder we are being smacked late in quarters and our opposition are able to score easily at times from clearnce situations.
We have drafted just 3, ( Cotchin, Martin and Arnott ) pure mids since 2006 ( 6 drafts ). Whilst Cousins is the only midfielder amongst a huge array of flankers / pockets that we have traded or rookied, within the same time.
I actually feel sorry for Dimma he just doesn't have the players !

I wouldnt be blaming our mids like you are doing, the blame is on the forwards when the ball is inside 50.

The Tigers have averaged 29.6 more disposals than their opponents, ranked third in the competition.
We are No.1 in contested footy at plus 12.7 a game against their opponents.
We get the ball inside 50 12 more times than the opposition on average (No.3).
And only three times this year had fewer scoring shots when we have lost. Round 1 Carlton 14 more shots, round 2 Collingwood 1 extra shot and Gold Coast 2 extra shots.

In our 10 losses our average losing margin is 14.5pts, and we have been outscored in the last qtr 6 times at an average of 15pts and won the last qtr 4 times at an average of 8.5 points. That almost mirrors our last qtr scoring shots, lost 6, won 3, draw 1.

Needed, a monster CHF and classy HFF.