Past #31: David Hale - drafted at #7 in the Superdraft - 129 games for NM - traded to HFC in 2010

[DJ Dupree]

I would have actually kept Hale, and traded H.

1. Goldy has overtaken McIntosh in the ruck, and there's not much Hale wouldn't contribute that McIntosh does as a 2nd ruckman.

2. Hale has the extra string to his bow of being able to play forward.

3. McIntosh would have had more trade currency based on his performances over the last few years, which would have given us the chance to address other deficiencies in our list.

Old ground, I know, and I'm not Laidley in disguise. I see plenty of standard Hale performances coming up, and we'll all shrug it off. But I see McIntosh as heading the same way.

Good luck to him.

 

[Zondor]

Good luck to Hales.

Whilst you're at it can you also wish Corey Jone good luck in his future endeavours. :stern look

Anyways here ye is a Zondors fun fact. David Hales has a paver at Hardon St. Well done David.

 

[The OBSTacle]

I would have actually kept Hale, and traded H.

1. Goldy has overtaken McIntosh in the ruck, and there's not much Hale wouldn't contribute that McIntosh does as a 2nd ruckman.

2. Hale has the extra string to his bow of being able to play forward.

3. McIntosh would have had more trade currency based on his performances over the last few years, which would have given us the chance to address other deficiencies in our list.

Old ground, I know, and I'm not Laidley in disguise. I see plenty of standard Hale performances coming up, and we'll all shrug it off. But I see McIntosh as heading the same way.

Good luck to him.

I have no idea how you managed to arrive at that conclusion.

There is not a single discipline in the sport in which David Hale has more ability than Hamish McIntosh.

Am I missing something?

 

[DJ Dupree]

I have no idea how you managed to arrive at that conclusion.

There is not a single discipline in the sport in which David Hale has more ability than Hamish McIntosh.

Am I missing something?

Never a popular argument, and still hard to convince anyone of.

Simply - I don't think the difference between us and a flag in the future is our backup ruckman. Goldy, Daw, Petrie, Hale would have been ample.

McIntosh would have got us something else good. Like a jet mid. A hard bodied forward.

Get it? No? I don't particularly care.

 

[The OBSTacle]

Never a popular argument, and still hard to convince anyone of.

Simply - I don't think the difference between us and a flag in the future is our backup ruckman. Goldy, Daw, Petrie, Hale would have been ample.

On the contrary, there is a solid history of ruck combinations being influential in grand finals.

McIntosh would have got us something else good. Like a jet mid. A hard bodied forward.

Do you honestly believe McIntosh would have gotten us a top ten pick when that didn't occur 2 years ago?

Who was interested in McIntosh? Certainly not the Gold Coast.

Who do we drop to make way for this "jet mid" or "hard bodied forward"?

Atley, Cunnington, Garlett, Greenwood, Hansen or Petrie?

Get it? No? I don't particularly care.

I'm trying to "get it" mate, hence my reason for questioning your logic.

 

[DJ Dupree]

On the contrary, there is a solid history of ruck combinations being influential in grand finals.



Do you honestly believe McIntosh would have gotten us a top ten pick when that didn't occur 2 years ago?

Who was interested in McIntosh? Certainly not the Gold Coast.

Who do we drop to make way for this "jet mid" or "hard bodied forward"?

Atley, Cunnington, Garlett, Greenwood, Hansen or Petrie?



I'm trying to "get it" mate, hence my reason for questioning your logic.

Fair enough.

So you don't think our ruck stocks are at least the equal of, if not better than, other parts of the ground?

Atley, Cunnington, Garlett and to a lesser extent Greenwood are not proven as mids yet. Arguably neither is Hansen as a KPP. Who knows how Petrie will go with injuries. Harvey wont be there forever either. Wells will never have the impact we all hoped.

All facts.

Greenwood isn't a jet either, he's a tough nut, relentless tagger.

We sometimes jump to the conclusions we hope for with certain players rather than what they have actually achieved. You are doing this.

In the end though, I like H, this isn't meant to be a H-bashorama. He does okay. That's the point though- he's just okay in an area that we could have safely play with to bolster something else.

Before you say I'm jumping to the conclusion I would like to see with Daw, worst case scenario Daw doesn't come along as we'd hoped, Hale would have done fine as backup.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Fair enough.

So you don't think our ruck stocks are at least the equal of, if not better than, other parts of the ground?

DJ, I think your argument is fundamentally flawed on the basis that you are unable to assess H's contributions. In other words, you're not a particularly good judge.

Atley, Cunnington, Garlett and to a lesser extent Greenwood are not proven as mids yet. Arguably neither is Hansen as a KPP. Who knows how Petrie will go with injuries. Harvey wont be there forever either. Wells will never have the impact we all hoped.

All facts.

Yeah, right. You say "All facts" immediately after an opinion. (A crap one, in my view, but hey, that's just my opinion. I'm willing to bet mine will prove correct).

Basically sums up the way you argue.

 

[The OBSTacle]

Fair enough.

So you don't think our ruck stocks are at least the equal of, if not better than, other parts of the ground?

I do.

Atley, Cunnington, Garlett and to a lesser extent Greenwood are not proven as mids yet.

Neither is some kid at pick 14 in a draft.

Arguably neither is Hansen as a KPP.

Can't agree. Hansen has yet to properly arrive but neither has Michael Hurley and there would be very few clubs in the competition that would entertain trading these 2 players.

Who knows how Petrie will go with injuries.

Who knows if the sun will come up tomorrow? You can't organise an AFL list based on that philosophy.

Harvey wont be there forever either.

We have an abundance of midfielders on our list and a Brent Harvey comes along only once in a generation anyway. Trading McIntosh for a mid to late 1st round pick is statistically bound to fail if we are attempting to find the next Harvey by doing that.

Wells will never have the impact we all hoped.

He is still a good midfielder and indications are that he has his best football in front of him.

All facts.

............and all largely irrelevant to trading McIntosh in the chance of jagging a jet somewhere between picks ~ 8 - 14.

Greenwood isn't a jet either, he's a tough nut, relentless tagger.

He has just turned 22, he has shut down Judd and Dal Santo, and he picked up 39 possessions playing against players of his own age demographic. Again, he seems a much safer bet than a pick in the 8 to 14 range.

We sometimes jump to the conclusions we hope for with certain players rather than what they have actually achieved. You are doing this.

I have been watching football as an adult for well over 25 years now, so I think I have an idea as to how to rate a player. I witnessed the rise of the 90's group from 1988 onwards and I am confident that our current list is the best assembled since that time.

In the end though, I like H, this isn't meant to be a H-bashorama. He does okay. That's the point though- he's just okay in an area that we could have safely play with to bolster something else.

He has currency as a top 7 pick, but no-one is paying that price. After that point we are better off keeping him.

Before you say I'm jumping to the conclusion I would like to see with Daw, worst case scenario Daw doesn't come along as we'd hoped, Hale would have done fine as backup.

Prior to this seasons practice matches, Majak was still a wildly speculative pick. Basing our future rucks on the hope he comes good during last years trading/drafting period would have been an act of list development lunacy.

 

[DJ Dupree]

DJ, I think your argument is fundamentally flawed on the basis that you are unable to assess H's contributions. In other words, you're not a particularly good judge.



Yeah, right. You say "All facts" immediately after an opinion. (A crap one, in my view, but hey, that's just my opinion. I'm willing to bet mine will prove correct).

Basically sums up the way you argue.

I'm not a particularly good judge based on what exactly??

Hale would get less hitouts to advantage than McIntosh? Doubt it.

Hale would take less grabs around the ground than McIntosh? Doubt that too.

Could Hamish go forward with the same impact as Hale (even if he wasn't exactly a world-beater)? Doubt that as well.

What does one have over the other?

We rated Hamish into the stratosphere based on a breakout season and another when he was pretty good. He either has been, or will be, overtaken by Goldstein.

Meanwhile we smashed Hale to bits because he was thrust permanently into a spot he wasn't suited to.

As for Wells, no, I don't think he'll ever be the player we expected. I shouldn't have generalised and said 'we all' because we all would have had differing expectations of him. But in general, you would have thought full-time midfielder in the top ten players of the league dominating regularly, would have been somewhere in the ballpark of expectation.

Now we're talking about him playing from half back, conceding that at 26/27, maybe he wont be the Brownlow contending mid we wanted from a # 2 draft pick. That's okay. Draft pick numbers are over-rated anyway as we have proven with our drafting and, probably more so, our rookies. Maybe because we lost Carey, I unfairly wanted that #2 player to set the world on fire as payback. Not sure.

Not enjoying derailing this thread, I just see this Hale/Hamish thing as obvious, and it is just an opinion. Anyway, we all go for a club that will never die and maybe we argue amongst ourselves with that spirit. Go North. I get my hoodie next month and will wear it proudly around this state of real enemies

 

[Hoser]

Would not have minded Hale as a ruck.... Disliked him as a FF or CHF, and disliked the fact the he consistently got those opportunities.

 

[fairdinkum]

Don't mind DJ Dupree's argument, tbh.

 

[MagicalRoos]

Where's Hales when ya need him?.....

 

[Rod Stroker]

Don't mind DJ Dupree's argument, tbh.

Agree. There is some merit to his madness.

What I disagree with though is his belief that Hale is a decent forward. He had one good game down at Geelong 3 years ago. Since then it's been tumbleweeds.

 

[fairdinkum]

What I disagree with though is his belief that Hale is a decent forward. He had one good game down at Geelong 3 years ago. Since then it's been tumbleweeds.

Our delivery forward under Laidley was generally slow and poor - bad at any time but especially in modern football as teams are so quick to get numbers back. To make things worse, the chopping-the-arm rule never seemed to apply to Hale for some reason, and defenders had days out when playing on him as a result. Never going to kick 100 goals a season but could have given us much more than he did had different circumstances prevailed.

 

[SandyToes]

Interesting watching David this year having shared everyone's frustrations from his time at North
Firstly, I suspect the expectations at Hawthorn aren't quite as lofty as they were at Arden St which will release pressure.
Secondly, to me anyway, they seem to have addressed his indecision when he gets a possession.At North he would hold the ball and hold the ball for what seemed an eternity..this year it seems he's been coached to take the first option..sure it's not always the right one, but usually it is.

 

[bellzy]

Seems former Roo David Hale is a lot more talented then we first thought:

'Senior U.S. diplomats have returned to the Middle East for an unannounced visit to try to find a way to restart Israeli-Palestinian peace talks that collapsed last year and now face new challenges. Dennis Ross and David Hale's visit...'

(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43414712/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/)

Explains his lack of form since 2008 I suppose. Obviously, he's had other things on his mind.

 

[Flawed Genius]

I thought that was Michael Wundke's job.

 

[bellzy]

I thought that was Michael Wundke's job.

Nah, he's off curing cancer.

 

[Tas]

Get him for a Goldstein vs Houli dispute?

 

[naturally north]

Oh dear this won't end well, the same David Hale stated it was nice playing at Hawthorn cause they can win games by big margins at North we scrapped through.

Well since David has left our avg winning margin is about 50 points.Hmmm not saying it was his fault but it probably was.

 

[blackshadow]

Poor Harry Obama will be getting jealous.

 

[Dan]

I thought his work in Broken Arrow was good

 

[davo99]

Spotted at training today talking to Petrie Saw this on twitter Misses North too much?

 

[davo99]

Spotted at training today talking to Petrie Saw this on twitter Misses North too much?

 

[spudmaster]

Hands off! You've had your turn