Player Watch #4 Dustin Martin

[RJK Tiger]

The response of a loser.

how witty. We are done for the night, nothing valuable will come from this mindless rapport and its ****ing boring to others. I'd rather talk to CHAT GPT than you any longer. 2nd time ive said it - you don't have to reply to everything i write.

 

[captain blood 17]

 

[Lunchtime]

It does stand out, but that success did occur from the ages of 26-30 which tends to me when peak players peak.


the 3 loses between 13-15, he was in our best 5 players for each game from my memory & when you look at the team named, you clearly see our downfall was that our bottom 5-6 players were not AFL standard

I just think people need to look at the evidence/body of work for Martin in Finals matches. The fact is that more often than not - he delivered.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

I just think people need to look at the evidence/body of work for Martin in Finals matches. The fact is that more often than not - he delivered.

He delivered in Finals AND H&A.

Why do you think the media made such a fuss about it when De Boer shut him down for one game about 6 or 7 years ago?

Campaigners are fixated on Dusty just being a September player. We'd never have even got there without him totally dominating March to August too.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

He delivered in Finals AND H&A.

Why do you think the media made such a fuss about it when De Boer shut him down for one game about 6 or 7 years ago?

Campaigners are fixated on Dusty just being a September player. We'd never have even got there without him totally dominating March to August too.

So you only win every award football has too offer by only turning up in finals.(17).

 

[Frustrated Tiger]

It is what it is. None of us wanted it to end this way. None of us.

But it has & eventually you either spit or swallow, and move on. Just holding it in your mouth and letting it swish around for a few years is a bad choice. But anyone trying to convince me "its not all that bad" , i know chose "swallow"

 

[RJK Tiger]

I just think people need to look at the evidence/body of work for Martin in Finals matches. The fact is that more often than not - he delivered.

Yeah i don't think there is much to learn from the stat at all, but it is a weird side note to his career. Again, its when people want to crow on about Dimma. He had several generational players and possibly the greatest Tiger Player, Greatest Tiger Captain & Greatest Tiger defender ever. No one can argue the 4 years of success we had, but people who follow us closely also know..... he had THE BEST Assistant coach team possibly ever at that time too. When he didn't have those generals aiding his game day stuff, he failed to win a single final despite 3 "once in a lifetime" players.

I don't see the stat as a slant at Dusty, but more a slant at Dimma. He had some incredible pieces at his disposal. Also worth remembering the one time he also didn't have Dusty at 100% in a final in that "4 years",, we got smacked around by Collingwood.

 

[Livonski]

Yeah i don't think there is much to learn from the stat at all, but it is a weird side note to his career. Again, its when people want to crow on about Dimma. He had several generational players and possibly the greatest Tiger Player, Greatest Tiger Captain & Greatest Tiger defender ever. No one can argue the 4 years of success we had, but people who follow us closely also know..... he had THE BEST Assistant coach team possibly ever at that time too. When he didn't have those generals aiding his game day stuff, he failed to win a single final despite 3 "once in a lifetime" players.

I don't see the stat as a slant at Dusty, but more a slant at Dimma. He had some incredible pieces at his disposal. Also worth remembering the one time he also didn't have Dusty at 100% in a final in that "4 years",, we got smacked around by Collingwood.

Greatest Tiger defender couldn’t contain Mason Cox! And you blame Hardwick.
Hardwick created the environment for a players to become champions. Just ask Dusty. Go back and watch Dusty crying in Hardwicks embrace after the GF win.
You keep with this attack on Hardwick in spite of all the evidence, both anecdotal and empirical that makes it clear Hardwick was a superb coach at Richmond.
Triple premiership coach.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Greatest Tiger defender couldn’t contain Mason Cox! And you blame Hardwick.
Hardwick created the environment for a players to become champions. Just ask Dusty. Go back and watch Dusty crying in Hardwicks embrace after the GF win.
You keep with this attack on Hardwick in spite of all the evidence, both anecdotal and empirical that makes it clear Hardwick was a superb coach at Richmond.
Triple premiership coach.

I thought Peggy and co created the environment. Sorry i didn't realise Dimma was the guy who hired & convinced all the great people who aided the culture we made. My mistake. I mean, wasn't Peggy the one who chose not to sack him despite an overwhelming push for him to be in 2016?

Instead, she kept him and and went on a rampage adding the best assistants she could to support him.

I thought that was more how "the environment" was created. Perhaps im wrong tho......

 

[SunshineBoy]

I thought Peggy and co created the environment. Sorry i didn't realise Dimma was the guy who hired & convinced all the great people who aided the culture we made. My mistake. I mean, wasn't Peggy the one who chose not to sack him despite an overwhelming push for him to be in 2016?

Instead, she kept him and and went on a rampage adding the best assistants she could to support him.

I thought that was more how "the environment" was created. Perhaps im wrong tho......

Dusty was asked on Brownlow night what the change was from 16 to 17 he said “we got new assistants “ take that with what you want

 

[db26]

Club champion , but his time up fullstop. To much focus and speculation this year. I'm not even sure he fully bought in this year. Just think something not right there in the present moment.

 

[Livonski]

I thought Peggy and co created the environment. Sorry i didn't realise Dimma was the guy who hired & convinced all the great people who aided the culture we made. My mistake. I mean, wasn't Peggy the one who chose not to sack him despite an overwhelming push for him to be in 2016?

Instead, she kept him and and went on a rampage adding the best assistants she could to support him.

I thought that was more how "the environment" was created. Perhaps im wrong tho......

Yep, you are wrong.
The culture was created by a whole organisation pulling together. A lot of this was led by Hardwick, off field by Peggy and the board. Gale, Livingstone, Hartley, Balme. Particularly those who had worked thru the tough times.
But you only rip into one of them.

 

[Sol23]

Yep, you are wrong.
The culture was created by a whole organisation pulling together. A lot of this was led by Hardwick, off field by Peggy and the board. Gale, Livingstone, Hartley, Balme. Particularly those who had worked thru the tough times.
But you only rip into one of them.

Hardwick is a dickhead. He got lucky with an amazing group of players and left us in the shit when it got too hard.
He won’t do shit on the GC

 

[JackNah_8]

I thought Peggy and co created the environment. Sorry i didn't realise Dimma was the guy who hired & convinced all the great people who aided the culture we made. My mistake. I mean, wasn't Peggy the one who chose not to sack him despite an overwhelming push for him to be in 2016?

Instead, she kept him and and went on a rampage adding the best assistants she could to support him.

I thought that was more how "the environment" was created. Perhaps im wrong tho......

Wish we had someone like Peggy leading the club. She made a difference to the leadership team and club culture

Hardwick was fortunate enough to be part of the club when we built a great culture and had a good group of players and assistants. But something went wrong with the club during covid (while in Brisbane)

 

[Livonski]

Hardwick is a dickhead. He got lucky with an amazing group of players and left us in the shit when it got too hard.
He won’t do shit on the GC

He got lucky? haha the hate is palpable.
He coached us for 13 years. Helped turn a basket case into a dominant force for 4 years.
But just got lucky.
Please.

 

[Livonski]

Wish we had someone like Peggy leading the club. She made a difference to the leadership team and club culture

Hardwick was fortunate enough to be part of the club when we built a great culture and had a good group of players and assistants. But something went wrong with the club during covid (while in Brisbane)

Something went wrong during COVID while in Brisbane?
What, we won the flag under the most trying circumstances imaginable?
Loved the leadership of Peggy, but she was fortunate to have Hardwick as coach when she was Pres. Just like he was fortunate to have her.

 

[RJK Tiger]

He got lucky? haha the hate is palpable.
He coached us for 13 years. Helped turn a basket case into a dominant force for 4 years.
But just got lucky.
Please.

Ringo drummed in the Beatles forever. But i reckon he got pretty lucky to join a band with John Lennon & Paul.

Doesn't mean Ringo didn't have the chops to do the job, but he certainly would not have been in the greatest band of all time otherwise.

So was Ringo equally as important in the Beatles success than the other 2? Or was he perhaps lucky to team-up with TWO once in a lifetime talents? I reckon Ringo would even agree with the latter.


Dimma played a role in our rise, but played a much bigger role IMO with the fall. He destroyed the culture with his personal choices. He destroyed the entire small forward division by refusing to zag the game style when it was clear as day it needed it. He destroyed the list with his insistence that the club just were "1 or 2" players short of competing again when it was clear as day it was over. And then the second reality set in, he broke contract, without warning, lied to the club about "exhaustion" and took another job a couple of months later & left the club completely in the crapper with no options to replace him. He was contracted ffs. Benny thought he had "locked in" our guy for the long-term and all of a sudden, he was gone - 8 games after he traded 2 years of our best picks for 2 players who played the same bloody position. He didn't even trade the 2 years of picks for pieces that are hard to obtain (ie Full Back, Full Forward). Talented mids are available everywhere in the first 2 rounds of a draft.

Since leaving he has poached our players and former players to join him. We can appreciate his past with us, but there is absolutely no reason we should respect this bloke "today".

Meanwhile, members here are slagging supporters off for not wasting their Sunday at the MCG. unbelievable

 

[JackNah_8]

 

[TigerImposter]

Balme doesn't have a say anymore so i say he's talking crap and i hope he is as i want them both off our list for different reasons.

 

[Coach_Required]

Club going backwards if we keep all of Dusty, Baker, Bolton, Rioli & Graham. Our "rebuild" is going to take longer than it should, the price we pay for being too successful, the club can't let our premiership hero's go.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Club going backwards if we keep all of Dusty, Baker, Bolton, Rioli & Graham. Our "rebuild" is going to take longer than it should, the price we pay for being too successful, the club can't let our premiership hero's go.

Bolton & Rioli are contracted.So it's upto them not the club.
Baker & Graham have decisions too make and tbh the best we're gonna get out of w/c is a 2nd & f2.
Dusty is not going too land us anything of substance pick wise.
So unless Bolton or Rioli does a major backflip in the next 7 weeks our draft will be still good but not as good if we sold a qtr acre of our farm.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Club going backwards if we keep all of Dusty, Baker, Bolton, Rioli & Graham. Our "rebuild" is going to take longer than it should, the price we pay for being too successful, the club can't let our premiership hero's go.

Graham I agree with, I assume we can get something 3rd round for him.

But you need the likes of Baker, Bolton, Rioli to tbe there as leaders for any of these kids we are trying to bring in, otherwise it's lambs to the slaughter! It's why I can live with TT anf Hops coming in, someone neeeds to do the heavy lifting until the kids are ready.

Dusty is one I would love to keep, club champions should finish up at the one club, IMO. However, IF HE WANTS to go, I'm ok with it, as long as we get something in return.

Now, if we kept Grimes (who I assume will retire), Kmac, Naismith, Colina (Cat B) instead of bringing kids in, I would agree with you.

Pickett, if the club want to get him to 100 games, he gets a year, if they don't, he goes as well.

Short is an interesting one, prior to this year, I would have said untouchable, but maybe its time both parties shake hands and move on.

Broad is another, has always been mr reliable, but with the ball coming in so fast and easy this season, he has seemed a long way off it...

And then you have to make a call on some kids as well:

Coulthard, Clarke, Cumberland, Dow, Smith.


My point being, there are more blokes who are at the back end of their careers or towards the bottom of our list talent wise before you go looking to cut ALL of Dusty, Baker, Bolton, Rioli

 

[Coach_Required]

Graham I agree with, I assume we can get something 3rd round for him.

But you need the likes of Baker, Bolton, Rioli to tbe there as leaders for any of these kids we are trying to bring in, otherwise it's lambs to the slaughter! It's why I can live with TT anf Hops coming in, someone neeeds to do the heavy lifting until the kids are ready.

Dusty is one I would love to keep, club champions should finish up at the one club, IMO. However, IF HE WANTS to go, I'm ok with it, as long as we get something in return.

Now, if we kept Grimes (who I assume will retire), Kmac, Naismith, Colina (Cat B) instead of bringing kids in, I would agree with you.

Pickett, if the club want to get him to 100 games, he gets a year, if they don't, he goes as well.

Short is an interesting one, prior to this year, I would have said untouchable, but maybe its time both parties shake hands and move on.

Broad is another, has always been mr reliable, but with the ball coming in so fast and easy this season, he has seemed a long way off it...

And then you have to make a call on some kids as well:

Coulthard, Clarke, Cumberland, Dow, Smith.


My point being, there are more blokes who are at the back end of their careers or towards the bottom of our list talent wise before you go looking to cut ALL of Dusty, Baker, Bolton, Rioli

It's quite concerning how our club seems to be reluctant to drop our experienced players, especially if out of form. but I'll save that argument for another thread.

 

[Lunchtime]

Balme doesn't have a say anymore so i say he's talking crap and i hope he is as i want them both off our list for different reasons.

What reasons are they?

 

[Tiger2709]

It's quite concerning how our club seems to be reluctant to drop our experienced players, especially if out of form. but I'll save that argument for another thread.

Extremely limited this year on who we can and cant replace, you cant just have kids out there, they need to learn from the senior players until they are ready to replace them.