Play Nice 45th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 9 - The Shi'ites Hit The Fan (Cont. in Part 10, see OP)

[RobbieK]

On Twitter Tuesday, Trump outlined the Republicans' defense of the delay in military aid being released to Ukraine:
* The July 25 call summary "shows no conditionality or evidence of pressure."
* Ukrainian "President (Volodymyr) Zelensky and President Trump have both said there was no pressure on the call."
* "The Ukrainian government was not aware of the hold on U.S. assistance" during the July 25 call.
* The security assistance hold was lifted on September 11.

The resulting GOP memo to Congressmen reads: "These four key points undercut the Democrat impeachment narrative that President Trump leveraged U.S. security assistance and a presidential meeting to force Ukraine to investigate the President's political rivals,".

In effect, House Republicans plan to argue that "the President's state of mind" was exculpatory.

Only the President knows what his ‘state of mind’ was, and as he has no intention of testifying, the House Committees will just have to accept his ‘word’ when he says that he has done nothing wrong. “The American people trust him to act, at all times, in the best interest of the USA. He is incapable of abusing his power.”

“Any testimony to the contrary is evidence that the official(s) either did not know, or misread ‘his state of mind’.”

Trump has denied any wrongdoing and has insisted the call with Zelensky was "perfect."

Addressing the points of the defense:

* The July 25 call summary "shows no conditionality or evidence of pressure."
We know that on the call Trump asked for a favour in the context of a discussion of military aid.
We know that the "transcript" of the call was not comprehensive, witnesses have testified to omissions.
Even if you feel that on the call there was no indication that the aid was conditional or that pressure was put on Zelensky, there is abundant evidence being brought forward by the witnesses of exactly those things occurring at the direction of Trump through other channels, some purposefully set up to avoid the regular channels of communication, over a period of months

* Ukrainian "President (Volodymyr) Zelensky and President Trump have both said there was no pressure on the call."
Of course Trump would say that.
Zelensky has been placed in a shit position. He desperately needs US assistance to protect Ukraine from Russia. I wouldn't expect him to feel comfortable crossing a President who potentially he is going to have to rely on for the next 5 years, particularly one that was already putting demands on him to release.
But again, this is not just about this particular call but interactions that occurred over an extended period of time

* "The Ukrainian government was not aware of the hold on U.S. assistance" during the July 25 call.
Whether this is true or not, there is a continued fixation with the call. There is testimony that the Ukraine were made aware of the aid being held up pending Ukrainian assitance on Trump's pet investigations through other communications.

* The security assistance hold was lifted on September 11.
The assistance hold was only lifted after the whistleblower came forward and the scheme was made public.

I can understand the desire for the Republicans to try and limit this to just the one phone call, but it is not a particularly credible or convinvincing defense considering the amount of testimony from people invovled in the Sate Department and NSC about what was going on.

 

[darrenmorgan]

On Twitter Tuesday, Trump outlined the Republicans' defense of the delay in military aid being released to Ukraine:
* The July 25 call summary "shows no conditionality or evidence of pressure."
* Ukrainian "President (Volodymyr) Zelensky and President Trump have both said there was no pressure on the call."
* "The Ukrainian government was not aware of the hold on U.S. assistance" during the July 25 call.
* The security assistance hold was lifted on September 11.

The resulting GOP memo to Congressmen reads: "These four key points undercut the Democrat impeachment narrative that President Trump leveraged U.S. security assistance and a presidential meeting to force Ukraine to investigate the President's political rivals,".

In effect, House Republicans plan to argue that "the President's state of mind" was exculpatory.

Only the President knows what his ‘state of mind’ was, and as he has no intention of testifying, the House Committees will just have to accept his ‘word’ when he says that he has done nothing wrong. “The American people trust him to act, at all times, in the best interest of the USA. He is incapable of abusing his power.”

“Any testimony to the contrary is evidence that the official(s) either did not know, or misread ‘his state of mind’.”

Trump has denied any wrongdoing and has insisted the call with Zelensky was "perfect."

It’s Pretty obvious the president has no idea what his state of mind is from one minute to the next.

 

[Satan]

Diversion no 3456 By Trump

 

[maryjames]

Unemployment hits 51 year low in America under President Trump.

Lucky America has a great President working for the people.

Great leader.

 

[maryjames]

once they put the closure to #_rsg RussiaGATE yet to find even one mea culpa and nought concessions, moved seemlessly to #_ukg UkraineGATE like Egyptian150countweave cotton with wilful ignorance of FigBooty's warp and weft of ahistoricity

The Dems are batshit crazy and are losing so hard right now they trying there best to ruin Trump but the fail over the last 4 years is evident.

Trump will go down as the toughest strongest leader in the history of America.

 

[madmug]

Well the Trump fans dont have too many brains

I resemble that remark!

 

[yebiga]

For those that still don't understand what is happening, here it is in a picture form that you may understand a little bit better.

View attachment 777985

Russian invasion? Was this in a movie?

 

[Andrew Birch]

 

[EasternTiger]

Unemployment hits 51 year low in America under President Trump.

Lucky America has a great President working for the people.

Great leader.

The President working day and night for his people, while some of his people work day and night against him and America.

This is the burden great leaders must carry.

 

[Satan]

Sorry to shock you but wrestling is not real

 

[Poor Form]

Sorry to shock you but wrestling is not real

Sort of like collusion or quid pro quo but some people just enjoy it all the same

 

[bourbons]

Hey I don't disagree, but you said it wasn't "teh left" I was just pointing out that those folks were very much "teh left"

They were there, I was just pointing out that it was protesters from the right rather than the left who caused the walk-off. Meaning the title of his book was proved to be nonsense at his own book launch, funny stuff.

 

[Financialpanther]

They were there, I was just pointing out that it was protesters from the right rather than the left who caused the walk-off. Meaning the title of his book was proved to be nonsense at his own book launch, funny stuff.

The ironing is delicious you could say.

 

[Andrew Birch]

Sorry to shock you but wrestling is not real

Don't tell Fredo Coumo & Stelter

 

[bourbons]

Jesus H fu**. They've got you parrots well trained, haven't they? Squak squak - stay on message - squak squak - skepticism and independent thought are prohibited.

Even the most blatant of corruption is excusable if CNN say so!

M8, much like yourself on occasion, I'm here providing a service here, cutting through the fake news and oft-repeated erroneous talking points to offer some sensible analysis and factual accurate information to help you guys make sense of the perplexing situation you find yourselves in. Its understandable, of course you'd be confused and outraged if Donnie's twitter is your main source of info, luckily I'm here to help!

Would have thought my previous post on the Biden situation was fairly clear but I am nothing if not magnanimous and patient. Let me know exactly where you perceive that info to be incorrect or what you're having a problem understanding and I'll sort you out

 

[Satan]

 

[The Warlord]

The Dems are batshit crazy and are losing so hard right now they trying there best to ruin Trump but the fail over the last 4 years is evident.

Trump will go down as the toughest strongest leader in the history of America.

Like when they won control of the House back in 2018?

 

[bourbons]

Jfc. Imagine for a second that the script is flipped, and what Biden did was actually committed by Trump. Would you accept any "muh standard foreign policy!" excuses? Of course not. I dislike Trump these days, but this entire narrative of "if he sneezes without covering his mouth he must be impeached" is so frikking one eyed and absurd. It's both fascinating and tragic that peeps believe anything that backs up their own personal biases.

Hi again m8.

Further to my previous post, I believe I can help you with this. As far as I can make out, you are referencing 2 factors with the "imagine that the script was flipped" comment;

1. Biden Jnr on the board in the first place
Well, we don't have to imagine with this one, a few examples with reasonable correlation already exist - main one IMO being Ivanka and Kutchner being employed as WH advisors on name/connection rather than work history and ability. People have questioned it, most have had a laugh about it, but so far no one has asked for an investigation on it. Strike 1.

2. Biden Snr getting the prosecutor fired
Would have thought this one more obvious, but as I said I'm very patient so I'll have another stab. Its not a matter of any of us accepting it as foreign policy, thats more a distinction for congress in the case of any investigation - which is what you're angry and confused about, yeah? Yet another investigation? So, your issue is more with the rules as they stand than Trump detractors, democrats or narratives. Rest assured if Trump's actions could in any way be reasonably painted as actual foreign policy rather than personal political gain (which we've been though ad nauseam in the thread with respect to timing and target selection), he wouldn't currently be the subject of an impeachment investigation. Strike 2.

Luckily for you this isn't baseball and I'm happy to provide as much context, non-alternative fact and information as you need to make sense of this crazy world we live in. Feel free to hit me up any time you need

 

[Poor Form]

1. Biden Jnr on the board in the first place
Well, we don't have to imagine with this one, a few examples with reasonable correlation already exist - main one IMO being Ivanka and Kutchner being employed as WH advisors on name/connection rather than work history and ability. People have questioned it, most have had a laugh about it, but so far no one has asked for an investigation on it. Strike 1.

Directly employing them as advisors to yourself in the whitehouse a role which whilst perhaps not perfectly suited for they are certainly not out of their depth in, a role in which they are clearly seen acting many times (much to the chagrin of the MSM and TDS sufferers). Ivanka + Kushner is not at all comparable to being employed by a foreign company into a role which you have no hope of fulfilling in a country whose language you don't speak in an industry you know nothing about and being fresh off rehab all while receiving extremely generous remuneration.

Pray tell what would an investigation into Ivanka Trump's role in the white house find? At worst she's ineffective in her role as an advisor a role which she and her husband both forgo their salaries btw. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/01/the-highest-paid-staffers-in-the-trump-white-house-in-2019.html

Imagine trying to draw that parallel with a straight face.

 

[bourbons]

What a team!

Imagine what the two of you can achieve if you really put your minds to it.

Trump will be gone in no time.

This is the funny thing mate, I actually don't really care if Trump is removed. President Pence doesn't sound particularly appealing.

Have said a few times, I'm here mostly for a laugh and usually can't resist calling out absolute bullsh1t when I see it. And there does seem to be more bullsh1t around lately - I mean, you have people complaining about narratives and brainwashing while dismissing as trivialities or completely disregarding actual laws, and rules enshrined in the US constitution.

And again, being honest there's also just the entertainment value of watching massive w@nkers eat sh1t

 

[bourbons]

Directly employing them as advisors to yourself in the whitehouse a role which whilst perhaps not perfectly suited for they are certainly not out of their depth in, a role in which they are clearly seen acting many times (much to the chagrin of the MSM and TDS sufferers). Ivanka + Kushner is not at all comparable to being employed by a foreign company into a role which you have no hope of fulfilling in a country whose language you don't speak in an industry you know nothing about and being fresh off rehab all while receiving extremely generous remuneration.

Yep, Jared as as middle east envoy in charge of brokering an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal, and Ivanka sitting in on meetings with world leaders just screams "certainly not out of their depth"

As soon as someone mentions MSM and TDS, I tend to believe they're out of actual arguments. Suffice to say, officials with first hand experience don't agree with your take;

Indian diplomat likens Ivanka Trump to 'half-wit Saudi prince' as she leads US delegation

'It is a shame that the US should be compared to a kingdom,' says diplomat

www.independent.co.uk

'Painful to watch': The French government released a video of Ivanka Trump having an awkward chat with world leaders

Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ted Lieu took the video as a chance to confront the role of President Donald Trump's daughter in the US government.

www.businessinsider.com.au

"Not at all comparable"? C'mon mate, be serious. Very comparable.

Pray tell what would an investigation into Ivanka Trump's role in the white house find? At worst she's ineffective in her role as an advisor a role which she and her husband both forgo their salaries btw. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/01/the-highest-paid-staffers-in-the-trump-white-house-in-2019.html

Imagine trying to draw that parallel with a straight face.

Pray tell what would an investigation into Biden Jnr's role on the Ukraine board find? At worst he's ineffective in his role as a PR exercise board member, which began after the Ukraine investigation started btw.

The only difference I can see is the monetary benefit, which brings us back around to Ivanka's Chinese trademarks.

Imagine pretending you can't see the parallel with a straight face.

(In all seriousness, I can see how Biden's initial appointment to the board might warrant investigation, Trump should have gone for his life - perhaps at at time when his dad wasn't a leading democrat candidate lol)

 

[Andrew Birch]

So much for minorities hating Trump.

 

[Royces Hart]

Directly employing them as advisors to yourself in the whitehouse a role which whilst perhaps not perfectly suited for they are certainly not out of their depth in, a role in which they are clearly seen acting many times (much to the chagrin of the MSM and TDS sufferers). Ivanka + Kushner is not at all comparable to being employed by a foreign company into a role which you have no hope of fulfilling in a country whose language you don't speak in an industry you know nothing about and being fresh off rehab all while receiving extremely generous remuneration.

Pray tell what would an investigation into Ivanka Trump's role in the white house find? At worst she's ineffective in her role as an advisor a role which she and her husband both forgo their salaries btw. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/01/the-highest-paid-staffers-in-the-trump-white-house-in-2019.html

Imagine trying to draw that parallel with a straight face.

Or you could believe that a private company should be able to employ who they want.

Whereas people being appointed to high ranking public service jobs, with the ability to shape government narrative, should be held to the highest scrutiny.

The fact that they are willing to do so for no salary can be looked at two ways, are they doing it for their chance to serve their country, or because of what they can get back outweighs the salary they would have otherwise received.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

What a team!

Imagine what the two of you can achieve if you really put your minds to it.

Trump will be gone in no time.

We can only try! It’s not really about trump though, more so just the corrupt Republican Party in general, and specifically pushing back against falsehoods being pushed as facts. And that’s most definitely the domain of the right wing/conservative side of politics, throughout the western world. I’m not saying it’s all, or even most conservatives/right wing, but the ones that dominate in the media and online unfortunately are.

 

[Poor Form]

Yep, Jared as as middle east envoy in charge of brokering an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal, and Ivanka sitting in on meetings with world leaders just screams "certainly not out of their depth"

As soon as someone mentions MSM and TDS, I tend to believe they're out of actual arguments. Suffice to say, officials with first hand experience don't agree with your take;

Indian diplomat likens Ivanka Trump to 'half-wit Saudi prince' as she leads US delegation

'It is a shame that the US should be compared to a kingdom,' says diplomat

www.independent.co.uk

'Painful to watch': The French government released a video of Ivanka Trump having an awkward chat with world leaders

Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ted Lieu took the video as a chance to confront the role of President Donald Trump's daughter in the US government.

www.businessinsider.com.au

"Not at all comparable"? C'mon mate, be serious. Very comparable.



Pray tell what would an investigation into Biden Jnr's role on the Ukraine board find? At worst he's ineffective in his role as a PR exercise board member, which began after the Ukraine investigation started btw.

The only difference I can see is the monetary benefit, which brings us back around to Ivanka's Chinese trademarks.

Imagine pretending you can't see the parallel with a straight face.

(In all seriousness, I can see how Biden's initial appointment to the board might warrant investigation, Trump should have gone for his life - perhaps at at time when his dad wasn't a leading democrat candidate lol)

Lol you are on struggle street here. I don't even know what you could investigate Ivanka for, at the very least there'd have to be some foreign influence scam for Biden Jr at worst its not just ineffective it is corrupt influence buying from a foreign entity. One which resulted in a genuine quid pro joe arrangement as well.

Meanwhile you site awkward conversations in spite that Ivanka and Jared are at least successful in business. Just a note of what she was representing the US in when those indian comments were made a "Global Entrepeneurship Summit" perhaps one of the greatest fluff events the white house would deal with not some strategic trade summit and yet again it was an unnamed source.

Shame I have to be the one to inform you that you are blinded by hate but i think with a bit of time and after 2020 with no more elections to worry about you will start to come round.