Delisted #49: Jaiden Hunter - Heading home - 15/8

[VelvetSledge]

Contract Status: Out of contract 2024
2024 My Boy Draft: Who dares wins

 

[ghostdog]

Awful news for the kid.
What's that now? 4 back injuries?

Forget the logo Dave. Fix this shit.

 

[bombreys]

He only was offered a really short contract - something like 6 months from memory so maybe we knew about this injury before we picked him up…
Likely we just pay out the contract now and move on as list spots will be at a premium in 2024

Stewart, Baldwin, Bryan, AMT, Montgomerie, Voss and Lord are nearly all certain to go.

Massimo and Tex possibly too.

That’s before talking about Heppell and Phillips who wouldn’t be anywhere near any other sides 22 - but given Scott’s infatuation they will probably stay on.

We should have a lot of list spots.

 

[bennyg12]

Hope we keep him

 

[Lore]

Stewart, Baldwin, Bryan, AMT, Montgomerie, Voss and Lord are nearly all certain to go.

Massimo and Tex possibly too.

That’s before talking about Heppell and Phillips who wouldn’t be anywhere near any other sides 22 - but given Scott’s infatuation they will probably stay on.

We should have a lot of list spots.

Tex and Stewart are contracted for 2024, though you could pay them out I guess.

Bryan is a long term project so unless he's asking to leave it would be a waste of all the time, money and effort we've spent developing him instead of someone else. And the stage he's at now you'd be lucky to get back the pick we used to get him. Need to finish the development project and then either put him to work or trade him for his proper value.

And AMT is another project (fitness this time) that we actively recruited back to the club last year knowing it was going to take a fair amount of time to get him back up to speed (remembering that he wasn't up to speed for over a year before he retired, and was even further back than that when he was asked to come back). So that doesn't make sense either.

There is the possibility that Walla and Stewart might agree to be demoted to the rookie list I guess.

 

[Wakwahn]

I love airports for their complete lack of regard for time

Well other than sitting in a dark empty terminal for a few hours in the evening, waiting for a connecting flight at Schiphol one time. That was weird. At a time when you'd expect stuff to actually be open...

Time and money really goes out the window at airports doesn’t it haha.. Pint at 7 AM? Of bloody course. Ham and cheese toastie for $15.00? You betcha. International travel especially is absolutely lawless


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[bombreys]

Tex and Stewart are contracted for 2024, though you could pay them out I guess.

Bryan is a long term project so unless he's asking to leave it would be a waste of all the time, money and effort we've spent developing him instead of someone else. And the stage he's at now you'd be lucky to get back the pick we used to get him. Need to finish the development project and then either put him to work or trade him for his proper value.

And AMT is another project (fitness this time) that we actively recruited back to the club last year knowing it was going to take a fair amount of time to get him back up to speed (remembering that he wasn't up to speed for over a year before he retired, and was even further back than that when he was asked to come back). So that doesn't make sense either.

There is the possibility that Walla and Stewart might agree to be demoted to the rookie list I guess.

I could have swarn Tex was out of contract but you’re correct - he obviously stays. Probably lucky he’s contracted.

I don’t think Stewart will be on the list next year - the injury list now also notes his absense reason as ‘personal’. I just get the feeling he’s gone.

Bryan’s never going to get senior games at Essendon - and his value will never be as high as it is now. We just need to cut our losses there and move on. Also need to remember he’s not an 18 year old in his first year, as much as the club tries to jam down our throats the idea we’re a ‘young side’.

 

[Lore]

I could have swarn Tex was out of contract but you’re correct - he obviously stays. Probably lucky he’s contracted.

I don’t think Stewart will be on the list next year - the injury list now also notes his absense reason as ‘personal’. I just get the feeling he’s gone.

Stewart's Dad died last week. I'd take some time off from team meetings and watching cuts of footage too, especially if I'm already rehabbing an injury with no prospect of playing either way for at least a couple more weeks.

Bryan’s never going to get senior games at Essendon - and his value will never be as high as it is now. We just need to cut our losses there and move on. Also need to remember he’s not an 18 year old in his first year, as much as the club tries to jam down our throats the idea we’re a ‘young side’.

You're right, he was not a fully developed midfielder or small forward that finished growing when he was 15 and spent the next three years honing his craft and building muscle mass.

He quite obviously was drafted as a 202cm ruck who was still growing and 10-15kg below playing weight even after putting on 12kg in his draft year. He was likely not used to his bigger frame, and probably not used to playing ruck either, since kids that grow that tall typically grow late and are not the tallest kid in the team through their junior career. He was always going to take time.

He is now a 21 year old developing third ruck with 7 AFL games under his belt, at a club with a 32yo second ruck, a healthy (until now) 1st ruck, and a 2-ruck game plan. Bryan's time will come, and it's not far away.

Here's a post from about six weeks ago, in the Reid thread. Bryan was 19 when he debuted:

I got half way through doing this and then got bored and gave up.. been sitting in my drafts.

I think there’s a pattern emerging though

All players listed at 200cm+ in the league atm (sorted by tallest)

Player Name	Age at debut	AFL games played before age 22
Mate Colina	-	-
Mason Cox	25y	0
Alex Mirkov	-	-
Lachlan McAndrew	-	-
Max Gawn	19y	26
Ned Reeves	22y	0
Jarrod Witts	20y	27
Rory Lobb	21y	2
Timothy English	19y	27
Samson Ryan	20y	1
Braydon Preuss	21y	4
Max Knobel	-	-
Henry Smith	-	-
Sam Darcy	19y	6 (so far)
Jordon Sweet	23y	0
Sam Hayes	22y	0
Ned Moyle	21y	2 (so far)
Toby Conway	-	-
Sam Draper	21y	8
Kalin Lane	-	-
Max Heath	-	-
Ivan Soldo	21y	7
Brynn Teakle	22y	0
Lachlan Keeffe	21y	8
Nick Madden	-	-
Jonathon Ceglar	22y	0
Sam De Koning	20y	24
Liam Reidy	-	-
Darcy Cameron	23y	0
Harry McKay	19y	35
Darcy Fort	25y	0
Oscar McInerney	23y	0
Kieran Strachan	24y	0
Cameron Owen	-	-
Scott Lycett	18y	21
Thomas Scully	-	-
Brodie Grundy	19y	43
Lloyd Meek	22y	0
Max Ramsden	20y	1 (so far)
Shannon Neale	19y	2 (so far)
Sean Darcy	19y	17
Peter Wright	18y	49
Nick Bryan	19y	6 (so far)
Darcy Moore	19y	47
Tom De Koning	19y	16
Eric Hipwood	18y	74
Reilly O'Brien	20y	2
Nicholas Naitanui	19y	60
Harry Barnett	-	-
Peter Ladhams	21y	5
Tom Hickey	20y	12
Max King	19y	53
Dante Visentini	-	-
Jacob Edwards	20y	5 (so far)
Hamish Free	-	-
Ben King	18y	53
Zach Reid	19y	8 (so far)
Marc Pittonet	19y
Hudson O'Keeffe
Harris Andrews
Riley Thilthorpe
Bailey Williams
Rowan Marshall
Tom Campbell
Kyle Marshall
Todd Goldstein
Ben McKay
Tristan Xerri
Josh Schache
Matthew Flynn
Kieren Briggs
Mac Andrew
Alex Pearce
Andrew Phillips
Billy Frampton
Oscar Steene
Lewis Young
Joe Daniher
Callum Jamieson
Harry Edwards
Charlie Dixon
Callum Coleman-Jones
Ben Brown
Max Lynch
Mabior Chol
Rhys Stanley
Nikolas Cox
Harry Lemmey
Tom Fullarton
Elliott Himmelberg

And to bring us back to the point of the thread, all of the same things pretty much apply to 21 year old key forwards in the mid-season draft.

 

[Maddogm]

Club seems very keen to point out that it was acquired before joining us!

Well they know what our fans are like, I mean you just have read the last few pages of this thread to see what they're dealing with.

 

[eth-dog]

Stewart, Baldwin, Bryan, AMT, Montgomerie, Voss and Lord are nearly all certain to go.

Massimo and Tex possibly too.

That’s before talking about Heppell and Phillips who wouldn’t be anywhere near any other sides 22 - but given Scott’s infatuation they will probably stay on.

We should have a lot of list spots.

Stewart, Bryan, Baldwin, Montgomerie, Voss, Massimo and Tex are far from guaranteed. Two of them are contracted.

I'd say the only guarantees are Heppell, Walla and Lord

 

[Don Won]

And if your final list I’d say that Lord is the only one that is guaranteed. Walla and Heppell should retire/be retired, but I suspect Walla might have club support for another year and Heppell could make a case for postponing retirement.

 

[ghostdog]

Stewart, Baldwin, Bryan, AMT, Montgomerie, Voss and Lord are nearly all certain to go.

Massimo and Tex possibly too.

That’s before talking about Heppell and Phillips who wouldn’t be anywhere near any other sides 22 - but given Scott’s infatuation they will probably stay on.

We should have a lot of list spots.

Why would Bryan, Montgomerie and Baldwin be 'certainties' to go?

Is that your word rather than the club's word?

 

[ant555]

Why would Bryan, Montgomerie and Baldwin be 'certainties' to go?

Is that your word rather than the club's word?

word of someone who clearly has not taken a close interest in the VFL

 

[P Money]

I'd be shocked if Walla doesn't play on. He's already said he wants to play for 'a couple more years' and I'm sure the club recognised where he was at physically when they signed him up to return. I'd assume the one year deal was to give him strong motivation to work on his fitness and show that he is serious about getting back to his best, and by all accounts he is putting in the hardest of hard yards.

 

[mike ross]

Time and money really goes out the window at airports doesn’t it haha.. Pint at 7 AM? Of bloody course. Ham and cheese toastie for $15.00? You betcha. International travel especially is absolutely lawless


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Except if you want to have a smoke. At Bangkok there was no where in that entire airport to light one up. At least in Vienna I got to. But now in Greece and talking about lawlessness, this place takes the cake. Double parking is common, streets are so narrow in some places that buses can't get through because of it. At intersections and roundabouts it's first in best dressed. No one wears seat belts, traffic lights are ignored, most drivers are super aggressive meanwhile the police are at the station drinking coffees and smoking. It seems enforcing the law is a little bit too strenuous. I did drive here over 20 years ago when I lived in Greece for a few years but I'm a little bit older now and I can't be stuffed dealing with these idiots.

Another point, at least those woke nutters haven't gotten here yet. It seems kinda normal lol well except the driving bit.

 

[Vander18]

I'd be shocked if Walla doesn't play on. He's already said he wants to play for 'a couple more years' and I'm sure the club recognised where he was at physically when they signed him up to return. I'd assume the one year deal was to give him strong motivation to work on his fitness and show that he is serious about getting back to his best, and by all accounts he is putting in the hardest of hard yards.

I dunno….we are a fair way down the track and he’s still not in AFL shape.

Understand it might be harder for him than others but I suspect the club thought he’d be further along at this stage than he is right now.

If he’s not a regular for the last 4-5 rounds then I think you look at whether we double down or cut our losses.

 

[Vander18]

Feel like there are some unanswered questions re what has happened here (apologies of discussed earlier in thread). Thoughts are:

1) If this was a pre-existing issues we must have been unaware of it right?

2) Who was supposed to disclose it to us?

3) If someone has failed to disclose something that should have been disclosed….are we entitled to revisit the pick?

 

[Lore]

Feel like there are some unanswered questions re what has happened here (apologies of discussed earlier in thread). Thoughts are:

1) If this was a pre-existing issues we must have been unaware of it right?

2) Who was supposed to disclose it to us?

3) If someone has failed to disclose something that should have been disclosed….are we entitled to revisit the pick?

1) who knows

2) the AFL did medicals on 12 MSD prospects, including Hunter. It was apparently being managed in the WAFL in the first half of the year, so if we spoke to any coaches or family they may also have mentioned it. But the medical would be the time to disclose it so that whatever club drafts him can manage it accordingly, set up his health insurance and all that.

3) not likely. I mean St Kilda didn't get to give Carlisle back, did they?

 

[Vander18]

1) who knows

2) the AFL did medicals on 12 MSD prospects, including Hunter. It was apparently being managed in the WAFL in the first half of the year, so if we spoke to any coaches or family they may also have mentioned it. But the medical would be the time to disclose it so that whatever club drafts him can manage it accordingly, set up his health insurance and all that.

3) not likely. I mean St Kilda didn't get to give Carlisle back, did they?

St Kilda had the opportunity to test Carlisle themselves though. The failure was their own.

 

[Lore]

St Kilda had the opportunity to test Carlisle themselves though. The failure was their own.

I was referring to the white powder video that was published hours after the trade went through

 

[Vander18]

I was referring to the white powder video that was published hours after the trade went through

Sorry - I’m with ya now

 

[yodellinhank]

I was referring to the white powder video that was published hours after the trade went through

If they didn't understand buyer beware after Lovett...

 

[Vander18]

I still don’t understand what happened here.

Can someone tell me how this situation - a mid season draft pick going down with a PRE EXISTING stress fracture to his back, after two games - is not the result of somebody’s colossal incompetence? Am I missing something?

With no Jones, no Reid, no Stewart and Weidemann in career worst form, this does actually matter.

 

[Lore]

I still don’t understand what happened here.

Can someone tell me how this situation - a mid season draft pick going down with a PRE EXISTING stress fracture to his back, after two games - is not the result of somebody’s colossal incompetence? Am I missing something?

With no Jones, no Reid, no Stewart and Weidemann in career worst form, this does actually matter.

We don't know anything else... we don't have access to the attachments and schedules of the CBA such as the 'Medical Examination Guidelines', so can't even guess at what was asked or required to be disclosed in the medical examination.

In this case the medical examination was performed by someone appointed by the AFL on behalf of multiple clubs interested in drafting him, so whatever we knew or didn't know is the same as what everyone else knew who was prepared to draft him. So it's not the club's fault, we just get left to pick up the pieces.

It's probably like finding out he has a heart defect or diabetes or something, where it existed before but no one was especially aware of it. Maybe he had a bit of a sore back or something, maybe thought it was bruised. But who doesn't have something minor like that from time to time?

Given we haven't heard anything else about it, I'm guessing nothing else will come of it. Our approach to the mid-season draft has always been with a long-term view to who we wanted to add to our list, so we may well have drafted him anyway as we have done in the past with Lachlan Johnson, Kaine Baldwin, Jayden Davey.

 

[Duckworth]

I would keep him on the list, showed something in his limited time.
Surely get a bulk discount on the back repairs jobs. Dodo working the angles…

 

[Vander18]

We don't know anything else... we don't have access to the attachments and schedules of the CBA such as the 'Medical Examination Guidelines', so can't even guess at what was asked or required to be disclosed in the medical examination.

In this case the medical examination was performed by someone appointed by the AFL on behalf of multiple clubs interested in drafting him, so whatever we knew or didn't know is the same as what everyone else knew who was prepared to draft him. So it's not the club's fault, we just get left to pick up the pieces.

It's probably like finding out he has a heart defect or diabetes or something, where it existed before but no one was especially aware of it. Maybe he had a bit of a sore back or something, maybe thought it was bruised. But who doesn't have something minor like that from time to time?

Given we haven't heard anything else about it, I'm guessing nothing else will come of it. Our approach to the mid-season draft has always been with a long-term view to who we wanted to add to our list, so we may well have drafted him anyway as we have done in the past with Lachlan Johnson, Kaine Baldwin, Jayden Davey.

View attachment 1722299

I never said club was at fault, although that’s still a possibility.

Question for anyone with a background in sports medicine, would you expect a pre-draft medical to identify a stress fracture in a players back?