Moved Thread #7: Jack Ziebell [Part I] © -

[Hazey1977]

Yes but we keep coming back to the same issue here - i.e. how did it end up this way?

How has the list been so mismanaged over the past 10 years that we end up with all the same types of players in the midfield? You couldn't do a worse job in selecting a 'mix' of midfielders than what we have done - no spread, no elite foot skills, no running power, no one over 6' 2. And worse we haven't even tried to mix it up by putting an Atley, Wood or such player in there - we just keep going with the same old Cunners, JZ, Swallow, Dumont types. Higgins improves it at the margin but just too little too late.

Best...ahem... supposedly best available.

 

[shinboner magic]

Best...ahem... supposedly best available.

I reckon that's a crock that list managers hang their hats on.

Ffs we have enough slow contested mids that can't kick or find the ball

 

[ferball]

I reckon that's a crock that list managers hang their hats on.

Ffs we have enough slow contested mids that can't kick or find the ball

Which of our slow contested mids can't find the ball?

 

[ferball]

My missus came to the game yesterday. She sees one game a year if she is lucky but has watched lots of local and junior footy over a couple of decades and used to do some stats for teams I played for or coached.

I asked her to "watch no. 7 a bit" and tell me what she thought. 5 minutes later -

"Whats wrong with him. Is he injured. He can't run and his upper body has nothing seems to be struggling to breathe and move." or wtte.

This was in the first quarter.

Just put him in for surgery and get him right for next year. Please ffs.


Playing someone like that into the ground for no effective reason is a disgrace. Especially someone who will never give up and never stop no matter how sore or broken.

 

[shinboner magic]

Which of our slow contested mids can't find the ball?

Dumont, jack, spitta and cunners on occasions- with their lack of speed these guys need to be getting first hands on the ball and averaging close to 30 touches a game. Not getting high 20s once a month and the rest around 20.
Other than cunners/higgo the footy IQ going through there isn't high.

 

[ferball]

Dumont, jack, spitta and cunners on occasions- with their lack of speed these guys need to be getting first hands on the ball and averaging close to 30 touches a game. Not getting high 20s once a month and the rest around 20.
Other than cunners/higgo the footy IQ going through there isn't high.

Spitta had 7 clearances this week and 7 clearances last week (the only games he's played since coming back from VFL,) and Cunners is a find the ball machine. I agree Jack is really struggling and I'm starting to doubt that Dumont will give us anything really valuable. But even he has had only 2 games with less than 15 possies and 3 less than 20 this year.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Y'know, sometimes I wonder if his heart is really in it.

 

[Route57]

Has anyone thought about disregarding midfield/forward - but trialling him as a hbf? Big body, hard hitting tackles and can kick, well more so bomb it.

 

[FastLife]

Half Back or Half Forward is where I see JZ playing in the future.

 

[ripperpart]

Has anyone thought about disregarding midfield/forward - but trialling him as a hbf? Big body, hard hitting tackles and can kick, well more so bomb it.

I hate seeing jack in the middle but id hate it even more if he was in the backline.
His no look bomb kicks and hard tackles are always dangerous in a bad way when hes in defence.
Its either forward or nothing sadly.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Umm ... Wells, Harvey, Dal Santo just left. They were 3 fairly handy receiver types I would imagine. You don't replace these guys overnight, but you can aggressively re-set over 1-2 seasons.

Add the fact we chased a plethora of outsiders :- Treloar and Heeney are 2 examples.

 

[Horizons_00]

My missus came to the game yesterday. She sees one game a year if she is lucky but has watched lots of local and junior footy over a couple of decades and used to do some stats for teams I played for or coached.

I asked her to "watch no. 7 a bit" and tell me what she thought. 5 minutes later -

"Whats wrong with him. Is he injured. He can't run and his upper body has nothing seems to be struggling to breathe and move." or wtte.

This was in the first quarter.

Just put him in for surgery and get him right for next year. Please ffs.


Playing someone like that into the ground for no effective reason is a disgrace. Especially someone who will never give up and never stop no matter how sore or broken.

We have a history of doing this, under Brad

 

[Psicosis]

Ahh half back? Did none of you see him hacking the ball out of defence last week? It's a thing of nightmares.

 

[Mav]

Half Back or Half Forward is where I see JZ playing in the future.

A team of flankers, it's sad that this is the story of the last 10 years. Even our Captain, a bullocking inside mid, has been turned into a flanker.

 

[King Corey]

We have a history of doing this, under Brad

Possibly a negative by-product of a player-centric culture.

A bit like the "keep playing them out of form until they find form" thing.

At a high level Brad probably asks Jack "are you good to play", Jack of course says "yes". Being the "back them in with little discretion" type Brad then plays Jack until his form turns so putrid it can't be ignored or he physically can't take the field.

 

[Horizons_00]

Possibly a negative by-product of a player-centric culture.

A bit like the "keep playing them out of form until they find form" thing.

At a high level Brad probably asks Jack "are you good to play", Jack of course says "yes". Being the "back them in with little discretion" type Brad then plays Jack until his form turns so putrid it can't be ignored or he physically can't take the field.

This not only ruins their confidence but also their ability to play footy later on. His body is ruined and a player is never going to come out and say "give me a rest" especially a captain

This reaks of the situation of black. He was run into the ground, played with a shoulder injury for the entire year, had a putrid season and has never gained his confidence back. He's done. Wonder what it would have been if they just put him into surgery when he was at his best?

Brad has NO duty of care for certain players and frankly I am ****ing sick of seeing him ruin players because of his stubbornness

 

[Orange Peanut]

We have a history of doing this, under Brad

I reckon we did it under Laidley too. I remember a couple of players (Boomer, maybe Stevo and I think Turtle) having a stinker of a year in the mid 00s only to find at the end of the year they'd all played with injury throughout. I just don't get it.

 

[Horizons_00]

I reckon we did it under Laidley too. I remember a couple of players (Boomer, maybe Stevo and I think Turtle) having a stinker of a year in the mid 00s only to find at the end of the year they'd all played with injury throughout. I just don't get it.

Insecurities. Not having any belief in our vfl players that can come in and play the role

 

[Grogg]

Looks like a guy completely devoid of confidence, which is understandable given he's a slow inside midfielder now being asked to run around on one lung.

Just get him in for surgery, give him a rest, whatever ffs.

 

[Only Forwards]

At a high level Brad probably asks Aaron "are you good to play", Aaron of course says "yes"(even when he says no we play him) . Being the "back them in with little discretion" type Brad then plays Aaron until his form turns so putrid it can't be ignored or he physically can't take the field.

Then we play him in the twos for a couple of years then trade him for a packet of chips.

 

[D23D]

Possibly a negative by-product of a player-centric culture.

A bit like the "keep playing them out of form until they find form" thing.

At a high level Brad probably asks Jack "are you good to play", Jack of course says "yes". Being the "back them in with little discretion" type Brad then plays Jack until his form turns so putrid it can't be ignored or he physically can't take the field.

Jack is probably a difficult man to say no to.
Jack has more desire, more heart and a bigger fire in the belly than any other North player at the moment.
And he is the skipper. He wants to lead. I assume this year is killing him more than me (just). He will always try to get on the park.

Still, if he can't carry out his duties then Brad needs to be firm. A week in the coaches box might do us all good.

 

[deano28]

Ahh half back? Did none of you see him hacking the ball out of defence last week? It's a thing of nightmares.

He would be very good across half back if he was used as the spare , exactly how Ross Lyon used Goddard .

 

[scooby1279]

Needs to be played in the middle / forward and needs to play with more desperation, forget about trying to do the outside stuff needs to feed it off but unfortunately we currently don't have many outside mids.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Been disappointed by the lack of support and respect shown to the skipper in his maiden year by the faithful on here.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

Been disappointed by the lack of support and respect shown to the skipper in his maiden year by the faithful on here.

Fair enough but i think supporters are happy with Jack as a captain - he is a very good leader of men - does things by example.

However by the same token i think there is frustration with Jack as a player - 150 odd games, plenty of opportunity but he delivers a very inconsistent performance.

The fact that we are openly discussing his best position 10 years into his career tells you a lot - he should be a dominant mid by now or a mid/forward in the mould of Dusty - but the reality is he is miles off that and it's a key factor in our demise. If he and Goldy were at the top of their game we would be in the 8 right now.

We all want to see Jack come good, show more consistency...but the question is - where is Jack's ceiling - has it been reached?

Yes he is captain so deserves additional respect - which I think he gets overall.