80k + crowds

[Domenic Fotia]

Since WW2 there have been 56 h & a games that have drawn 80k + crowds;

Break up by game;

15 - Coll v Ess
12 - Coll v Carl
4 - Ess v Rich, Coll v Geel, Ess v Carl, Coll v Melb
3 - Carl v Rich, Coll v Rich
2 - Coll v StK
1 - Geel v Haw, Ess v Geel, Coll v Haw, Geel v Melb, Ess v Melb

By Club

41 - Collingwood
25 - Essendon
19 - Carlton
10 - Richmond
7 - Geelong
6 - Melbourne
2 - St Kilda, Hawthorn

Note;

In the 50's and early 60's only Melbourne (obviously being the sole tennant of the MCG) was the only club that could draw the big h & a crowds. Melbourne have not played in a 80k + crowd since 1970.

The next change occurred when Richmond move to the MCG as a co-tennant. Their H & A games against Collingwood, Carlton and Essendong started to attract large crowds that previously could not be accomodated @ Punt Rd.

In the 1980's the then VFL started to move the big games from the suburban grounds to either the MCG or VFL Park. VFL Park regularly attracted 70k + crowds between the big clubs but only once did the ground go above 80k+ (Haw v Coll 90K+).

During the 70's, 80's and early 90's Carlton v Collingwood was the biggest drawing h & a clash. These games were the first to be moved from the small suburban grounds. This clash has drawn the most games with 70k + crowds as alot these games were transferred to VFL Park.

Essendon under Kevin Sheedy moved the Bombers from Windy Hill to the MCG and instigated their now annual clash with the Magpies on Anzac Day which draws 80k + every year (except MCG renos).

If you want to draw a big crowd a public holiday is the key. Aside from the now annual Coll v Ess game on Anzac Day these days have always been the best. ie Coll v Melb Queens B'Day through the 50's and 60;s including a massive 99k crowd, Rich v Coll Anzac Day 1977 90k plus, Ess v Geel Queens B'day 1989 87k , Carl v Ess 2 of their 4 80k plus crowds have been on Easter Monday.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Collingwood have been perfectly placed to draw the biggest crowds this century. Made the finals at least 8 times including this year.

 

[Koutou43]

Interesting post.

On those numbers you wonder why the AFL has moved Essendon and Carlton to the Docklands.

Would make more sense to have Collingwod, Carlton and Essendon all playing out of the MCG.

 

[Hawkk]

Calton and Essendon aren't really Docklands tenants though

Both clubs play 5 and 4 MCG home games a year specially for the purpose of crowd maximisation.

 

[Domenic Fotia]

Calton and Essendon aren't really Docklands tenants though

Both clubs play 5 and 4 MCG home games a year specially for the purpose of crowd maximisation.

Still both clubs play the likes of Hawthorn and Geelong @ the Docklands. If these games were played at the MCG you would expect at least 60k to 70k.

 

[gaelictiogar]

Calton and Essendon aren't really Docklands tenants though

Both clubs play 5 and 4 MCG home games a year specially for the purpose of crowd maximisation.

Absolutely true. I doubt very much if there are any examples of a Carlton game which was a legitimate chance of an 80K crowd ever being played at Docklands.

The fact is that all Melbourne clubs play more or less all their big games at the MCG. When was the last time Carlton played Essendon away from the G for example?

 

[gaelictiogar]

Still both clubs play the likes of Hawthorn and Geelong @ the Docklands. If these games were played at the MCG you would expect at least 60k to 70k.

Only in recent years and only because all the clubs you mention are finalling regularly with 2 having been recent premiers. Since WW2 the match ups between the three clubs have usually been nothing special as crowd draws and have rerely threatened the capacity at docklands pre 2008.

If EG Carl V haw become a regular draw you'll find it scheduled at the G more often than not.

 

[Domenic Fotia]

Absolutely true. I doubt very much if there are any examples of a Carlton game which was a legitimate chance of an 80K crowd ever being played at Docklands.

The fact is that all Melbourne clubs play more or less all their big games at the MCG. When was the last time Carlton played Essendon away from the G for example?

Probably not 80k plus but certainly 60k +. Last time we played Hawthorn at the MCG we drew 69k and Geelong 71k yet both are played at the Docklands this year.

 

[gaelictiogar]

Probably not 80k plus but certainly 60k +. Last time we played Hawthorn at the MCG we drew 69k and Geelong 71k yet both are played at the Docklands this year.

As I said form will impact and the Dome will impact both games this year. No doubt.

however what I'm saying is that those match ups are not "blockbuster" match ups as such. The 69K you mention is by miles the biggest Carl V haw at the G in recent times and there have been half a dozen very ordinary MCG attendances at the game since 2000. The most recent pre 2008 MCG Carl V Geel was 29,000 in 2001.

If those match ups continue to be good for 70K ( that is to say if all sides continue to be in good form ) then doubtless you'll see more at the MCG.

 

[Hawkk]

As I said form will impact and the Dome will impact both games this year. No doubt.

however what I'm saying is that those match ups are not "blockbuster" match ups as such. The 69K you mention is by miles the biggest Carl V haw at the G in recent times and there have been half a dozen very ordinary MCG attendances at the game since 2000. The most recent pre 2008 MCG Carl V Geel was 29,000 in 2001.

If those match ups continue to be good for 70K ( that is to say if all sides continue to be in good form ) then doubtless you'll see more at the MCG.

These are not quite 80,000 drawing games (the jist of this post is that unless its a hyped up 1 v 2 (i.e. Collingwood/Geelong or Hawthorn/Geelong in recent years) or a marquee fixture (ANZAC, Queens Birthday etc.) its very difficult to draw 80,000+ to a match

From a Hawks perspective we've played Carlton at Ethiad for most years since they made the move in 2005...all of these games have stretched the capacity (ditto Geelong V Carlton)

Hawthorn/Geelong regularly play Essendon/Carlton at Ethiad not because of its capacity but because Ethiad and the AFL have an agreement to play a number of attractive, high drawing fixtures at the venue.

That said, aside from the Fevola V Franklin match (or possibly the round 22 game later this season) I doubt any of the Blues/Hawks games would have drawn 75,000

 

[captain peanut]

Since WW2 there have been 112 h & a games that have drawn 80k + crowds;

Break up by game;

15 - Coll v Ess
12 - Coll v Carl
4 - Ess v Rich, Coll v Geel, Ess v Carl, Coll v Melb
3 - Carl v Rich, Coll v Rich
2 - Coll v StK
1 - Geel v Haw, Ess v Geel, Coll v Haw, Geel v Melb, Ess v Melb

By Club

41 - Collingwood
25 - Essendon
19 - Carlton
10 - Richmond
7 - Geelong
6 - Melbourne
2 - St Kilda, Hawthorn

Note;

In the 50's and early 60's only Melbourne (obviously being the sole tennant of the MCG) was the only club that could draw the big h & a crowds. Melbourne have not played in a 80k + crowd since 1970.

The next change occurred when Richmond move to the MCG as a co-tennant. Their H & A games against Collingwood, Carlton and Essendong started to attract large crowds that previously could not be accomodated @ Punt Rd.

In the 1980's the then VFL started to move the big games from the suburban grounds to either the MCG or VFL Park. VFL Park regularly attracted 70k + crowds between the big clubs but only once did the ground go above 80k+ (Haw v Coll 90K+).

During the 70's, 80's and early 90's Carlton v Collingwood was the biggest drawing h & a clash. These games were the first to be moved from the small suburban grounds. This clash has drawn the most games with 70k + crowds as alot these games were transferred to VFL Park.

Essendon under Kevin Sheedy moved the Bombers from Windy Hill to the MCG and instigated their now annual clash with the Magpies on Anzac Day which draws 80k + every year (except MCG renos).

If you want to draw a big crowd a public holiday is the key. Aside from the now annual Coll v Ess game on Anzac Day these days have always been the best. ie Coll v Melb Queens B'Day through the 50's and 60;s including a massive 99k crowd, Rich v Coll Anzac Day 1977 90k plus, Ess v Geel Queens B'day 1989 87k , Carl v Ess 2 of their 4 80k plus crowds have been on Easter Monday.

i'm pretty sure that if your 1st set of figures is correct then that's actually 56 games over 80k?

 

[telsor]

On those numbers you wonder why the AFL has moved Essendon and Carlton to the Docklands.

2 points.

Essendon & Carlton signed to play at Docklands, the AFL didn't 'move' them.

If you want those clubs to play out of the MCG, who would you move out? For scheduling and contractual reasons, almost half of all Melbourne games have to be played there.

 

[Domenic Fotia]

2 points.

Essendon & Carlton signed to play at Docklands, the AFL didn't 'move' them.

If you want those clubs to play out of the MCG, who would you move out? For scheduling and contractual reasons, almost half of all Melbourne games have to be played there.

You have to question why the second and third biggest drawing clubs are playing out of the smaller ground.

For the record Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond and Melbourne should play majority of home games at the MCG and the rest should play at the Docklands (Geelong excepted).

For the record the AFL was very influential in having Essendon move from the MCG to Docklands when the ground was established.

 

[Ant85]

I find it fascinating that Ess v Carl have drawn 80+ only 4 times, equal to us and Geelong.

And yes, Essendon and Carlton made the call to move to the Docklands. I'm sure the AFL gave them plenty of incentives, however, after we pulled out and they punished us by giving "our" home game to St.Kilda in 1999.

But I think Essendon have realised their mistake.

They know if they want to overtake Collingwood, they need to be in a stadium that caters for that expansion.

The Hawks made the right move. They had ambitions of being a big club, and chose to go to the MCG when they were a bottom 4 side. Now look at them. That's what you call a long-term strategy.

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

Good for Essendon

 

[hawker11]

You have to question why the second and third biggest drawing clubs are playing out of the smaller ground.

For the record Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond and Melbourne should play majority of home games at the MCG and the rest should play at the Docklands (Geelong excepted).

For the record the AFL was very influential in having Essendon move from the MCG to Docklands when the ground was established.

So what you're saying is Hawthorn should be shunted from the MCG, after being kicked out of Waverley approx ten years ago?

Carlton and Essendon both agreed to leave the MCG for what they thought was a better deal at the Docklands. They have made their beds...

 

[serenityNow]

Still both clubs play the likes of Hawthorn and Geelong @ the Docklands. If these games were played at the MCG you would expect at least 60k to 70k.

Agree.

Carlton vs Hawthorn have filled the dome twice to capacity in the last 4 years. How many more would have been at the G if it were there? last time we played Hawthorn at the G there were 69k,
I was turned away from the gate at the one where Buddy kicked his 100th and i wasn't the only one.
Geelong a few weeks ago another game that would have drawn 70k+ at the G, it did last year....and that was on a monday, a friday night always gets more.
Saying that Essendon and Carlton aren't hampered by the Domes capacity and fixturing is just ridiculous......


In the next negotiations i hope Carlton play the Interstaters at the Dome and all others at the G.

 

[Hawkk]

You have to question why the second and third biggest drawing clubs are playing out of the smaller ground.

For the record Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond and Melbourne should play majority of home games at the MCG and the rest should play at the Docklands (Geelong excepted).

For the record the AFL was very influential in having Essendon move from the MCG to Docklands when the ground was established.

If its based on drawing the most possible people through the gates what is the logic behind Melbourne playing at the MCG?

 

[Domenic Fotia]

So what you're saying is Hawthorn should be shunted from the MCG, after being kicked out of Waverley approx ten years ago?




Not now but when these things were being planned I find it strange both Carlton and Essendon are playing out of the smaller ground.

 

[Domenic Fotia]

I find it fascinating that Ess v Carl have drawn 80+ only 4 times, equal to us and Geelong.

Carlton and Essendon have drawn alot of games b/w 70k to 80k. Clearly the biggest non Collingwood game when it comes to crowds.

 

[serenityNow]

So what you're saying is Hawthorn should be shunted from the MCG, after being kicked out of Waverley approx ten years ago?

Carlton and Essendon both agreed to leave the MCG for what they thought was a better deal at the Docklands. They have made their beds...

Ian Collins made Carltons bed.

Carlton were never an MCG tenant. We simply had our 3 biggest drawing games fixtured there while being at PP (Pies,Bombers,Tigers). Collins wanted to get another big drawing club at the dome so he screwed us out of Princes Park and locked us into one of, if not the worst deals at the dome. A 42k crowd against the lions a few years back had us turn the tiniest of profits (cant remember how much, someone else may) according to Greg Swan on SEN the following day.

 

[Madtiger2006]

41 - Collingwood
25 - Essendon
19 - Carlton
10 - Richmond
7 - Geelong
6 - Melbourne
2 - St Kilda, Hawthorn

Reckon Collingwoods number has doubled after about 2001

 

[Domenic Fotia]

Reckon Collingwoods number has doubled after about 2001

You are correct. Until the mid 60's every big game involved Melbourne. From the mid 60's through to the early 80's every big game involved Richmond.

It was only when the Southern Stand was renovated (circa 1992) and the AFL moved all the Collingwood v Essendon / Carlton games to the MCG that the 80k + crowds became more regular.

 

[Blackas87]

Would like to see 80000 this queens birthday, after the 1 point margin and the draw last year and last weeks win over Essendon, Melbourne supporters will turn up, 2006 they got 78000 and now with collingwoods record membership and attendance this year I reckon its a pretty good chance they'll get there.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Would like to see 80000 this queens birthday, after the 1 point margin and the draw last year and last weeks win over Essendon, Melbourne supporters will turn up, 2006 they got 78000 and now with collingwoods record membership and attendance this year I reckon its a pretty good chance they'll get there.

Would be 20,000 less if it was on Sunday instead