Conspiracy Theory 9/11 - Part 2

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Just so I understand the point of this thread your asking posters to "prove"
The official story of 9/11

Now as I don't run a forensic science lab myself or have access to any of the evidence in the first place can I use official government released to the public, high light any of the myriad of tv specials and shows like zero hour etc for proof?

Can I point to dozens of books written by seasoned investigators and academics that support the official story

Or do I like the rest of you have to resort to posting YouTube video's filled with text eriey music and in most cases the person posting doesn't identify themselves let alone provide empirical proof to support their claims.
 

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Sydney Bloods said:
Just so I understand the point of this thread your asking posters to "prove"
The official story of 9/11

Now as I don't run a forensic science lab myself or have access to any of the evidence in the first place can I use official government released to the public, high light any of the myriad of tv specials and shows like zero hour etc for proof?

Can I point to dozens of books written by seasoned investigators and academics that support the official story

Or do I like the rest of you have to resort to posting YouTube video's filled with text eriey music and in most cases the person posting doesn't identify themselves let alone provide empirical proof to support their claims.
Click to expand...

Welcome
This is thread for you to come in with your mind open and actually ponder some of the questions presented and ask yourself whether what you think you know and have been told actually makes any sense
Read what's presented, ask questions and above all question yourself
A lot on here have their minds made up, but the better posters present all sorts of information that even if it doesn't sway you, at the very least is interesting and actually may make you want to delve in and study more
Don't get me wrong, there are also plenty of trolls who waste their time with closed minds , so if you are prepared to open yours then you might find it a good read ,if you just close your mind then you are wasting your time here
Cheers
 
Glacier said:
Welcome
This is thread for you to come in with your mind open and actually ponder some of the questions presented and ask yourself whether what you think you know and have been told actually makes any sense
Read what's presented, ask questions and above all question yourself
A lot on here have their minds made up, but the better posters present all sorts of information that even if it doesn't sway you, at the very least is interesting and actually may make you want to delve in and study more
Don't get me wrong, there are also plenty of trolls who waste their time with closed minds , so if you are prepared to open yours then you might find it a good read ,if you just close your mind then you are wasting your time here
Cheers
Click to expand...

G'day Glacier :thumbsu:

Good post mate, but are you saying I'm a troll :confused:
 
Glacier said:
Welcome
This is thread for you to come in with your mind open and actually ponder some of the questions presented and ask yourself whether what you think you know and have been told actually makes any sense
Read what's presented, ask questions and above all question yourself
A lot on here have their minds made up, but the better posters present all sorts of information that even if it doesn't sway you, at the very least is interesting and actually may make you want to delve in and study more
Don't get me wrong, there are also plenty of trolls who waste their time with closed minds , so if you are prepared to open yours then you might find it a good read ,if you just close your mind then you are wasting your time here
Cheers
Click to expand...

I my self have a very open mind about the whole thing mainly building 7 and the pentagon, but this thread says prove the official when there has been plenty of information releases "proving" the official story.

You can deny its laughable to use a poorly made anonymous you tube video that makes dozens upon dozens of claims passes them off as fact but doesn't use anything to back them up, as proof some sort of proof that the entire thing was a false flag event.

Conspiracy claims are just that claims no proof or analysis are brought to bear on them and so they are free to constantly spout crap

The imaginary plane theory being one of the worst attempts out their along with the suit case nuke.

Yet people believe this because some guy on the Internet posted a video the vast majority of so called "truthers" aren't interested in finding out the truth to them 9/11 was 100 percent false flag operation carried out by the US as an excuse to start endless and remove liberties from US citizens.

All the videos and analysis is done from this view point and YouTube videos and dossiers and rants are made to support this view.

Less then 10% percent of truther videos have any credibility.

Example that a plane simply couldn't bring down the twin towers and that they were built to withstand the impact of a 747.......... Lets be clear about this, this came from an Alex jones special a man who doesn't even pretend to have an open mind about 9/11.

Supposedly towers 1 and 2 were built specificity not to with the impact of a large passenger plane but to withstand the impact of a 747.

His evidence? Some guy in a interview claiming to be responsible for building the towers.

No evidence has been found or revealed to support this theory those that subscribe to it, simply say the government covered up the evidence so that's why we haven't found and any paper work or structural plan's to support that the towers could in fact with stand the impact of the planes and were designed that way.
 
Sydney Bloods said:
I myself have a very open mind about the whole thing mainly building 7 and the pentagon, but this thread says prove the official when there has been plenty of information releases "proving" the official story.
Click to expand...

Building 7 wasnt hit by any planes during the September 11th attacks, but still totally collapsed (into its own footprint) later the same day. This collapse was not investigated by the 9/11 Commission so you'd have to agree there was no information "proving" the official story released on its demise.o_O
 
This fell out of the sky in august 1940 in what was probably an uncontrolled dive. It has just been pulled out. If you watch air crash investigation and the stories of airliners that hit the ocean. They say its like hitting concrete.
4745128-3x2-700x467.jpg



One of these planes in her heyday.

dornier-do-17-z-2-bomber-02.png


Somethings not right with flight 93 and 77
 
Something not right when DNA can be used to ID bodies from a plane that apparently is so hot it melts !
Something is not right when a passport survives an aircrash and the planes black box does not
Something is not right when " terrorists" who are supposedly dead come fwd to report they are in actual fact very much alive but are still officially pronounced dead, and dead terrorists at that
Something is not right when an engine part ends up 5 miles away from a plane that supposedly collides with the ground
Something is not right when a hole in a building supposedly made by a plane is not big enough for that plane to fit through

A lot of things are not right
 

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Just on Black Ops, False Flags, Whistle Blowers....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko


Career in Russian security services

In 1991, Litvinenko was promoted to the Central Staff of the Federal Counterintelligence Service, specialising in counter-terrorist activities and infiltration of organised crime. He was awarded the title of "MUR veteran" for operations conducted with the Moscow criminal investigation department, the MUR.[13] Litvinenko also saw active military service in many of the so-called "hot spots" of the former USSR and Russia.[14] During the First Chechen War Litvinenko planted several FSB agents in Chechnya. Although he was often named "Russian spy" by western press for propaganda reasons, throughout his career he was not an 'intelligence agent' and did not deal with secrets beyond information on operations against organised criminal groups.[10][15][16][17]

Litvinenko met Boris Berezovsky in 1994 when he took part in investigations into an assassination attempt on the oligarch. He later began to moonlight for Berezovsky and was responsible for the oligarch's security.[3][10] Litvinenko's employment under Berezovsky and other security services personnel was illegal, but the state somewhat tolerated it in order to retain staff who were at the time underpaid.[3][10] Thus, Litvinenko's employment for the controversial businessman and others was not investigated. Often such inquiries in Russia were selective and targeted only at those who had stepped out of line.[10]

In 1997, Litvinenko was promoted to the FSB Directorate of Analysis and Suppression of Criminal Groups, with the title of senior operational officer and deputy head of the Seventh Section.[18] According to Dimitri Simes, the Directorate was viewed as much as a part of organised crime as it was of law enforcement.[19]

Claims against FSB leadership

According to Litvinenko's widow Marina, while her husband was employed in the FSB he discovered numerous links among members of the top brass of Russian law enforcement agencies and Russian mafia groups, such as the Solntsevo gang. Berezovsky arranged a meeting for him with FSB Director Mikhail Barsukov and Deputy Director of Internal affairs Ovchinnikov to discuss the alleged corruption problems, with no result. This led him to the conclusion that the entire system was corrupt.[20]

In December 1997 Litvinenko claimed he received an order to kill Berezovsky. He did not inform his part-time employer until 20 March 1998.[10][21] According to his widow, on 25 July 1998, the day on which Vladimir Putin replaced Nikolay Kovalyov as the Director of the Federal Security Service, Berezovsky introduced Litvinenko to Putin. Berezovsky claimed that he had helped Putin to take the Director's position.[22] According to his widow, Litvinenko reported to Putin on corruption in the FSB, but Putin was unimpressed.[22] According to Litvinenko, Putin was involved with a corrupt military general in the Russian army when Putin was a Deputy for Economic Affairs to the Mayor of St. Petersburg. Litvenenko was doing an investigation into the general and Uzbek drug barons and believed that Putin tried to stall the investigation in order to save his reputation.[23]

On 13 November 1998, Berezovsky wrote an open letter to Putin in Kommersant. He accused heads of the Directorate of Analysis and Suppression of Criminal Groups Major-General Yevgeny Khokholkov, N. Stepanov, A. Kamyshnikov, N. Yenin of ordering his assassination.[24]

Four days later Litvinenko and four other officers appeared together in a press conference at the Russian news agency Interfax. All officers worked for both FSB in the Directorate of Analysis and Suppression of Criminal Groups and for Boris Berezovsky.[10] They repeated the allegation made by Berezovsky.[10][21] The officers also claimed they were ordered to kill Mikhail Trepashkin who was also present at the press conference, and to kidnap a brother of the businessman Umar Dzhabrailov.[21]

In 2007, Sergey Dorenko provided The Associated Press and The Wall Street Journal with a complete copy of an April 1998 interview he conducted for ORT television station with Litvinenko and his fellow employees. The interview, of which only excerpts were shown in 1998, shows the FSB officers, who were disguised in masks or dark glasses, claim that their bosses had ordered them to kill, kidnap or frame prominent Russian politicians and businesspeople.

Jim Heintz of the Associated Press opined that although Berezovsky does not appear in the interview, he has an omnipresence in it, given that the officers worked for him, and the interview was taped by Dorenko, a Russian journalist who was an employee of ORT owned in part by Berezovsky.[25]

Dismissal from the FSB

After holding the press conference, Litvinenko was dismissed from the FSB.[26] Later, in an interview with Yelena Tregubova, Putin said that he personally ordered the dismissal of Litvinenko, stating, "I fired Litvinenko and disbanded his unit ...because FSB officers should not stage press conferences. This is not their job. And they should not make internal scandals public."[27] Litvinenko also believed that Putin was behind his arrest. He said, "Putin had the power to decide whether to pass my file to the prosecutors or not. He always hated me. And there was a bonus for him: by throwing me to the wolves he distanced himself from Boris [Berezovsky] in the eyes of FSB's generals."[28]

Flight from Russia and asylum in the United Kingdom


This section requires expansion. (March 2009)

In October 2000, in violation of an order not to leave Moscow, Litvinenko and his family traveled to Turkey, possibly via the Ukraine.[29] While in Turkey, Litvinenko applied for asylum at the United States Embassy in Ankara, but his application was denied.[29] Henry Plater-Zyberk opined that the denial may have been based on possible American opinions that Litvinenko's knowledge was of little benefit and that he might create problems.[10] With the help of Alexander Goldfarb, Litvinenko bought air tickets for the Istanbul-London-Moscow flight,[30] and asked for political asylum at Heathrow Airport during the transit stop on 1 November 2000.[31] Political asylum was granted on 14 May 2001,[32] not because of his knowledge on intelligence matters, but rather on humanitarian grounds.[10] While in London he became a journalist for the separatist Chechenpress and a controversial author. He also joined Berezovsky in campaigning against Putin's government.[33][34] In October 2006 he became a naturalised British citizen with residence in Whitehaven.[35]

Cooperation with MI6

On 27 October 2007, the Daily Mail, citing "diplomatic and intelligence sources," stated that Mr Litvinenko was paid about £2,000 per month by MI6 at the time of his murder. John Scarlett, the head of MI6 (who was once based in Moscow), was allegedly personally involved in recruiting him.[16] The Independent stated that whilst cooperation of Litvinenko with MI6 will likely never be confirmed, an MI6 retainer for Litvinenko suggests systematic cooperation, because MI6 usually makes irregular payments to exiles in exchange for information.[36]

Litvinenko's widow Marina Litvinenko has admitted that her husband co-operated with the British MI6 and MI5, working as a consultant and helping the agencies to combat Russian organized crime in Europe.[37][38]

In February 2012, Litvinenko's father Valter apologized for what he called his personal "slander campaign" against the Russian government. Before the confession by Marina Litvinenko, he had publicly blamed the Russian security services for his son's death. In an interview Valter Litvinenko said that if he had known at the time that his son was a British intelligence agent, he would not have made such accusations.[39]

Alleged threats against Litvinenko

Former FSB officer Mikhail Trepashkin stated that in 2002 he had warned Litvinenko that an FSB unit was assigned to assassinate him.[40] In spite of this, Litvinenko often travelled overseas with no security arrangements, and freely mingled with the Russian community in the United Kingdom, and often received journalists at his home.[10][41] In January 2007, Polish newspaper Dziennik revealed that a target with a photo of Litvinenko on it was used for shooting practice by the Vityaz Training Centre in Balashikha in October 2002.[42] The centre, run by Sergey Lyusyuk, is not affiliated with the government, and trains bodyguards, debt collectors and private security forces,[43] although in November 2006 the centre was used by the Vityaz for a qualification examination due to their own centre being under renovation.[43] The targets, which Lyusyuk says were bought in the Olympic Market, were also photographed when the chairman of the Federation Council of Russia Sergei Mironov visited the centre and met Lyusyuk on 7 November 2006.[42][43] When asked why the photographs of Mironov's visit were removed from the centre's website Lyusyuk stated, "(T)hose Poles are up to something" and added that Mironov didn't see the targets and knew nothing about them.[43]

Alleged blackmail activities

According to Julia Svetlichnaya, a Russian doctoral candidate at the University of Westminster's Center for the Study of Democracy, Litvinenko told her that he was planning to blackmail or sell sensitive information on a wide range of people, including oligarchs, allegedly corrupt official and figures within the Kremlin hierarchy, in which he would extort £10,000 per instance to have him stop publication of alleged documents. Svetlichnaya noted that Litvinenko didn't have a steady income and was certain he could obtain the necessary files for this purpose.[44] According to The Observer, Litvinenko's alleged threats and access to FSB materials might have turned him into an enemy of big business and the Kremlin.[44]

Conviction in Russia

In 2002 Litvinenko was convicted in absentia in Russia and given a three and a half year jail sentence for charges of corruption.[45][46]
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Allegations

45px-Unbalanced_scales.svg.png

This section's representation of one or more viewpoints about a controversial issue may be unbalanced or inaccurate.

Please improve the article or discuss the issue on the talk page. (April 2010)

Litvinenko regularly told people about his theories relating to the power structures in Russia, and would bombard his contacts with information relating to his theories.[10][41][47] In a report for the Conflict Studies Research Centre, Henry Plater-Zyberk, a lecturer at the Defence Academy of the United Kingdom and Russian politics expert, described Litvinenko as a one-man disinformation bureau, who was at first guided by Berezovsky but later in possible pursuit of attention for himself. Plater-Zyberk notes that Litvinenko made numerous accusations without presenting any evidence to give credence to his claims, and these claims which became increasingly outlandish were often accepted by the British media without question.[10] According to Michael Mainville, Litvinenko knew the secret to a conspiracy theory is that they are based upon an absence of proof, and that the more outlandish the claim, the harder it is to disprove.[47] This has led to some political analysts dismissing his claims as those of a fantasist.[44]

Armenian parliament shooting

Main article: 1999 Armenian parliament shooting
Litvinenko accused the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General-Staff of the Russian armed forces of having organised the 1999 Armenian parliament shooting that killed Prime Minister of Armenia Vazgen Sargsyan and seven members of parliament, ostensibly to derail the peace process which would have resolved the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, but he offered no evidence to support the accusation.[10][48][49] The Russian embassy in Armenia denied any such involvement, and described Litvinenko's accusation as an attempt to harm relations between Armenia and Russia by people against the democratic reforms in Russia.[50]

Russian apartment bombings

Main article: Russian apartment bombings

Litvinenko alleged that agents from the FSB coordinated the 1999 Russian apartment bombings that killed more than 300 people, whereas Russian officials blamed the explosions on Islamic terrorists. This version of events was suggested earlier by David Satter.[51]

Moscow theatre hostage crisis

Main article: Moscow theatre hostage crisis

In a 2003 interview with the Australian SBS TV network, and aired on Dateline, Litvinenko claimed that two of the Chechen terrorists involved in the 2002 Moscow theatre siege — whom he named "Abdul the Bloody" and "Abu Bakar" — were working for the FSB, and that the agency manipulated the rebels into staging the attack.[52] Litvinenko said, "[W]hen they tried to find [Abdul the Bloody and Abu Bakar] among the dead terrorists, they weren't there. The FSB got its agents out. So the FSB agents among Chechens organized the whole thing on FSB orders, and those agents were released." This echoed similar claims made by Mikhail Trepashkin.[53] The leading role of an FSB agent Khanpasha Terkibaev ("Abu Bakar") was also described by Anna Politkovskaya, Ivan Rybkin and Alexander Khinshtein.[54][55][56][57] In the beginning of April 2003 Litvinenko gave "the Terkibaev file" to Sergei Yushenkov when he visited London, who in turn passed it to Anna Politkovskaya.[27] A few days later Yushenkov was assassinated. Terkibaev was later killed in Chechnya. According to speaker of the Russian State Duma Ivan Rybkin, "The authorities failed to keep [the FSB agent] Terkibaev out of public view, and that is why he was killed. I know how angry people were, because they knew Terkibaev had authorization from presidential administration."[58]

Beslan school hostage crisis

Main article: Beslan school hostage crisis

Alexander Litvinenko suggested in September 2004 that the Russian secret services must have been aware of the plot beforehand, and therefore that they must have themselves organized the attack as a false flag operation. He spoke in an interview before his death with Chechenpress news agency, and said that because the hostage takers had previously been in FSB custody for committing terrorist attacks, it is inconceivable that they would have been released and still been able to carry out attacks independently. He said that they would only have been freed if they were of use to the FSB, and that even in the case that they were freed without being turned into FSB assets, they would be under a strict surveillance regime that would not have allowed them to carry out the Beslan attack unnoticed.[59] Ella Kesayeva, co-chair of the group Voice of Beslan, formalized Litvinenko's argument in a November 2008 article in Novaya Gazeta, noting the large number of hostage takers who were in government custody not long before attacking the school, and coming to the same conclusion that Beslan was a false flag attack.[60]

Support of terrorism worldwide by the KGB and FSB

Litvinenko stated that "all the bloodiest terrorists of the world" were connected to FSB-KGB, including Carlos "The Jackal" Ramírez, Yassir Arafat, Saddam Hussein, Abdullah Öcalan, Wadie Haddad of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, George Hawi who led the Communist Party of Lebanon, Ezekias Papaioannou from Cyprus, Sean Garland from Ireland and many others. He said that all of them were trained, funded, and provided with weapons, explosives and counterfeit documents in order to carry out terrorist attacks worldwide and that each act of terrorism made by these people was carried out according to the task and under the rigid control of the KGB of the USSR.[61] Litvinenko said that "the center of global terrorism is not in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan or the Chechen Republic. The terrorism infection creeps away worldwide from the cabinets of the Lubyanka Square and the Kremlin".[62][63]

Alleged Russia-al-Qaeda connection

In a July 2005 interview with the Polish newspaper Rzeczpospolita, Litvinenko alleged that Ayman al-Zawahiri, a prominent leader of al-Qaeda, was trained for half a year by the FSB in Dagestan in 1997 and called him "an old agent of the FSB".[61][64] Litvinenko said that after this training, al-Zawahiri "was transferred to Afghanistan, where he had never been before and where, following the recommendation of his Lubyanka chiefs, he at once ... penetrated the milieu of Osama bin Laden and soon became his assistant in Al Qaeda."[65] Former KGB officer and writer Konstantin Preobrazhenskiy supported this claim and said that Litvinenko "was responsible for securing the secrecy of Al-Zawahiri's arrival in Russia; he was trained by FSB instructors in Dagestan, Northern Caucasus, in 1996–1997.".[66] He said: "At that time, Litvinenko was the Head of the Subdivision for Internationally Wanted Terrorists of the First Department of the Operative-Inquiry Directorate of the FSB Anti-Terrorist Department. He was ordered to undertake the delicate mission of securing Al-Zawahiri from unintentional disclosure by the Russian police. Though Al-Zawahiri had been brought to Russia by the FSB using a false passport, it was still possible for the police to learn about his arrival and report to Moscow for verification. Such a process could disclose Al-Zawahiri as an FSB collaborator. In order to prevent this, Litvinenko visited a group of highly placed police officers to notify them in advance." According to FSB spokesman Sergei Ignatchenko, al-Zawahiri was arrested by Russian authorities in Dagestan in December 1996 and released in May 1997.[67]

When asked in an interview who he thought the originator of the 2005 bombings in London was, Litvinenko responded saying,[61] "You know, I have spoken about it earlier and I shall say now, that I know only one organization, which has made terrorism the main tool of solving of political problems. It is the Russian special services."

On 1 September 2005, al-Zawahiri and Mohammad Sidique Khan allegedly claimed responsibility for the attacks for Al Qaeda on a videotape which aired on al-Jazeera.[68] In actual fact, the Khan portion of the videotape is of dubious provenance and contains no references to London, bomb attacks, suicide attacks, violent Jihad, domestic terrorism or his own martyrdom and is widely believed to have been the result of Khan being duped into recording the incriminating tape under false pretenses, most likely by his intelligence service handlers, believing it would be used for training purposes. Kahn can be seen throughout reading from a pre-scripted text written on a piece of paper and his statement makes no claim of responsibility for the July 7th Attacks or any other.

Danish cartoon controversy

According to Litvinenko, the 2005 controversy over the publication in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten of editorial cartoons depicting the Islamic prophet Muhammad was orchestrated by the FSB to punish Denmark for its refusal to extradite Chechen separatists.[47]
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Assassination of Anna Politkovskaya

Main article: Anna Politkovskaya assassination

Two weeks before his poisoning, Alexander Litvinenko accused Vladimir Putin of ordering the assassination of Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya and stated that a former presidential candidate Irina Hakamada warned Politkovskaya about threats to her life coming from the Russian president. Litvinenko advised Politkovskaya to escape from Russia immediately. Hakamada denied her involvement in passing any specific threats, and said that she warned Politkovskaya only in general terms more than a year ago.[69] It remains unclear if Litvinenko referred to an earlier statement made by Boris Berezovsky who claimed that former Deputy Prime Minister of Russia Boris Nemtsov received word from Hakamada that Putin threatened her and like-minded colleagues in person. According to Berezovsky, Putin uttered that Hakamada and her colleagues "will take in the head immediately, literally, not figuratively" if they "open the mouth" about the Russian apartment bombings.[70]

Allegations concerning Romano Prodi

Main article: Italian Mitrokhin Commission

According to Litvinenko, FSB deputy chief General Anatoly Trofimov said to him, "Don’t go to Italy, there are many KGB agents among the politicians. Romano Prodi is our man there,"[71][72] meaning Romano Prodi, the Italian centre-left leader, former Prime Minister of Italy and former President of the European Commission. The conversation with Trofimov took place in 2000, after the Prodi-KGB scandal broke out in October 1999 due to information about Prodi provided by Vasili Mitrokhin.[22]

In April 2006, a British Member of the European Parliament for London, Gerard Batten of the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP), demanded an inquiry into the allegations.[71][72] According to Brussels-based newspaper, The EU Reporter on 3 April 2006, "Another high-level source, a former KGB operative in London, has confirmed the story."[73] On 26 April 2006, Batten repeated his call for a parliamentary inquiry, revealing that "former senior members of the KGB are willing to testify in such an investigation, under the right conditions." He added, "It is not acceptable that this situation is unresolved, given the importance of Russia's relations with the European Union."[74] On 22 January 2007, the BBC and ITV News released documents and video footage from February 2006, in which Litvinenko repeated his statements about Prodi.[75][76]

A report by the Conflict Studies Research Centre of the Defence Academy of the United Kingdom from May 2007 noted that Trofimov was never the head of the FSB, which did not oversee intelligence operations, had never worked in the intelligence directorate of the KGB or its successor the SVR, nor had he worked in the counterintelligence department of the intelligence services, nor had he ever worked in Italy, making it difficult to understand how Trofimov would have had knowledge about such a recruitment. Henry Plater-Zyberk, the co-author of the report, suggested that Trofimov was "conveniently dead," so "could neither confirm nor deny the story," and noted Litvinenko's history of making accusations without evidence to back them up.[10]

Cooperation with Spanish authorities

Shortly before his death Litvinenko tipped off Spanish authorities on several organised crime bosses with links to Spain. During a meeting in May 2006 he allegedly provided security officials with information on the locations, roles, and activities of several "Russian" mafia figures with ties to Spain, including Izguilov, Zahkar Kalashov, and Tariel Oniani.[77]

Other allegations

In his book Gang from Lubyanka, Litvinenko alleged that Vladimir Putin during his time at the FSB was personally involved in protecting the drug trafficking from Afghanistan organized by Abdul Rashid Dostum.[78] In December 2003 Russian authorities confiscated over 4000 copies of the book.[79]

Litvinenko commented on a new law that "Russia has the right to carry out preemptive strikes on militant bases abroad" and explained that these "preemptive strikes may involve anything except nuclear weapons." Litvinenko said, "You know who they mean when they say 'terrorist bases abroad'? They mean us, Zakayev and Boris and me."[27] He also said that "It was considered in our service that poison is an easier weapon than a pistol." He referred to a secret laboratory in Moscow that still continues development of deadly poisons, according to him.[80]

In an article written by Litvinenko in July 2006, and published online on Zakayev's Chechenpress website, he claimed that Vladimir Putin is a paedophile.[81] Litvinenko also claimed that Anatoly Trofimov and Artyom Borovik knew of the alleged paedophilia.[82] The claims have been called "wild"[41] and "sensational and unsubstantiated"[83] in the British media. Litvinenko made the allegation after Putin kissed a boy on his belly while stopping to chat with some tourists during a walk in the Kremlin grounds on 28 June 2006.[83] The incident was recalled in a webcast organised by the BBC and Yandex, in which over 11,000 people asked Putin to explain the act, to which he responded, "He seemed very independent and serious... I wanted to cuddle him like a kitten and it came out in this gesture. He seemed so nice... There is nothing behind it."[84] It has been suggested that the incident was a "clumsy attempt" to soften Putin's image in the lead-up to the 32nd G8 Summit which was held in Saint Petersburg in July 2006.[83]

Poisoning and death

Main article: Alexander Litvinenko poisoning


Alexander Litvinenko at University College Hospital

On 1 November 2006, Litvinenko suddenly fell ill and was hospitalised. His illness was later attributed to poisoning with radionuclide polonium-210 after the Health Protection Agency found significant amounts of the rare and highly toxic element in his body. However, the London coroner's inquest is yet to be completed. Media claims of polonium poisoning, therefore, lack official substantiation.[85][86][87] In interviews, Litvinenko stated that he met with two former KGB agents early on the day he fell ill – Dmitry Kovtun and Andrei Lugovoi. Though both denied any wrongdoing, a leaked US diplomatic cable revealed that Kovtun had left polonium traces in the house and car he had used in Hamburg.[88] The men also introduced Litvinenko to a tall, thin man of central Asian appearance called 'Vladislav Sokolenko' who Lugovoi said was a business partner. Lugovoi is also a former bodyguard of Russian ex-Acting Prime minister Yegor Gaidar (who also suffered from a mysterious illness in November 2006). Later, Litvinenko had lunch at Itsu, a sushi restaurant in Piccadilly in London, with an Italian acquaintance and nuclear waste expert, Mario Scaramella, to whom he made the allegations regarding Italy's Prime Minister Romano Prodi.[89] Scaramella, attached to the Mitrokhin Commission investigating KGB penetration of Italian politics, claimed to have information on the assassination of Anna Politkovskaya, 48, a journalist who was killed at her Moscow apartment in October 2006. In Litvinenko's last known public statement, he indicated that he believed it was Scaramella who poisoned him.[90]

Marina Litvinenko, widow of the deceased, accused Moscow of orchestrating the murder. Though she believes the order did not come from Putin himself, she does believe it was done at the behest of the authorities, and announced that she will refuse to provide evidence to any Russian investigation out of fear that it would be misused or misrepresented.[91]
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Who wrote that? David Petraus or John Mcain? You know how they say you follow the money trail, see who profits from it and that is more than likely the chief protagonist? Reading that (which supplies some really good insights into Russian matters) It's apparent there's a goal trying to be reached with the way fiction is mixed in with science fiction and non fiction.

Hussiens ba'ath party was given a list of soviet friendly politicians and leaders by the CIA in the 60's-70's (full of Germans at that point) and it become an assassination list. Thatcher was a staunch anti communist and trained various anti communist groups (khmer rouge,al queda,apartheid south africa) all over the globe. Al queda was set up and funded by the CIA as part of a multi pronged endevour at squeezing the economy of soviet Russia.They carried out some really horrible crimes against soviet friendly politicians and elders in the late 70's and early 80's.They wanted war.

Litvenko sounds like the propaganda tool (for the British) Field marshal Paulus was for the Russians at the end of ww2
 
"There must be some kind of way out of here,"
Said the joker to the thief,
"There's too much confusion,
I can't get no relief.
Businessman they drink my wine,
Plowman dig my earth
None will level on the line, nobody offered his word, hey"

"No reason to get excited,"
The thief, he kindly spoke
"There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late"

All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Barefoot servants, too

Outside in the cold distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
And the wind began to howl
*buisness man there, drink my wine,
Come and take my herb.
 
Donstuie said:
Who'd have thought a thread that blatantly disrespects victims, families, emergency services workers and peddles blatant untruths at every turn for crackpot agendas could simultaneously be so amusing and entertaining :thumbsu:
Click to expand...

Tell me
What's so amusing about 3 thousand people dying in circumstances that are so unclear and events that are so open , even 12 years later, to such confusion , suspicion and conjecture
Go ask the families of loved ones if its so funny that even after all this time their questions are still not suffiently answered
 
Glacier said:
Tell me
What's so amusing about 3 thousand people dying in circumstances that are so unclear and events that are so open , even 12 years later, to such confusion , suspicion and conjecture
Go ask the families of loved ones if its so funny that even after all this time their questions are still not suffiently answered
Click to expand...
Way to miss the point there (I sense on purpose).

First, the families have every right to demand answers about why their Government failed them, but to lump them in with your agenda is a slap in the face to them. Hell, according to some of you, their friends and family never died to begin with, and are "in on it". Way to show respect there.

Second, what's amusing is the endless crackpot theories, the blatant stupidity and ignoring of facts, and the immature, pre-pubescent argumentative techniques that the ever-dwindling "Truth movement" continue to spew out. It has gone from being a mild curiosity, an outright annoyance and now an amusing (there's that word again) source of light entertaining reading like New Idea or TMZ. This is the Truthers' eternal legacy to one of the biggest events in history, reducing it to tabloid trash. I'm sure the families are proud.

The entertainment value of the 'Truth movement' is the only joy most of us can ever salvage from one of history's most devastating, world-changing events. So why not take what we can.
 
Donstuie

No, I didn't miss the point at all
Perhaps it is you who simply refuses to ask the questions that so many around the globe want answers to
Perhaps if you were a little less inclined to label those who do ask as crackpots and nutters etc, and actually thought if there was anything about the events of that time that don't add up, maybe you would surprise yourself a little
I think 3000 people and there families deserve that
 
GG said:
Anyone who thinks the govt played no part in 9/11 is a fool.
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I actually don't believe the government did, I believe that tyrants inside had something to do with it.The Bush administration was not democratically elected. One of the things the event achieved was everyone forgot about that.
 
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