Past #9: Jess Sinclair - traded to NM as part of Bell deal - 142 games for NM - delisted/retired end '08

[BB gun]

try supporting freo

 

[Event Horizon]

I believe they had a go at our clubs ability when it comes to trading, not our ability to spot talented juniors and I tend to think its a pretty fair assessment. We have made one bad trade after another over the last five odd years.

I don't think we got market value for Bell. I don't think we got market value for Pickett, the Carey deal was okay, made to look a lot better by Carlton found cheating. Corey McKernan has been a pain in the rear end, we gave too much to trade for Porter and then gave to much to get Corey back. I think we paid far too much for Thompson, dont mind him being at the club but first and second round pick.... it was too generous. We got blown out of the water with the Rawlings deal (probably thankful for that), traded for the dud Harvey and passed on someone we had a lot more knowledge about.

It all doesn't inspire me with confidence in the our recruiting department come trade period.

As for Jess, he is a fair-weather player. He never is part of the reason the team liftsm he is loose and unaccountable as a defender. I dont think he is a defender, more a wingman, but he wasn't getting the ball there either this year.

Grant was a straight swap for Schwass, we benefitted because Grant is a much younger player but overall that was a even trade. Every other player you mention I believe is a draft recruit.

Our trading has been less than stellar.

Tas, now lets look at some facts:

1. Bell deal - you reckon we got under the market value? We got Sinclair who if traded today would command a late first or second round selection. And that after an ordinary year. After the 2002 season Sinclair was rightly a top 10 player at North. Picks 6 and 8 gave us a go at some of the best talent in the league. Motlop and Smith may not be ideal result (ei Smith) but has nothing to do with the Bell trade. Think about it! Bell was 26. We got a top 10 player in terms of our list and picks 6 and 8!.

2. Now compare that to the Thommo deal who is also 26. Also a tall, which means a lot these days. We give picks 10 and 26. I know you may value Bell higher, but Thompson at his best is pretty good. How can you say that Sinclair, 6 and 8 is under the market and 10 and 26 is over is beyond me.

3. You claim the Carey deal was made to look better by Carlton's fu#k up. True, but if you don't think that picks 4 and 20 were a good deal for a 31 yo Carey with a dodgy body, who hasn't played a decent game for 2 years and wasn't gonna play for us no matter what then I don't know what is a good deal.

4. You reckon we paid too much for Porter? We gave them McKernan who you claim to be a pain in the b#tt, and we got their first 2 picks while giving them our second and third, thus having 2 first round selections in the draft. Porter was younger and considered a better ruckman than McKernan. What is wrong with that deal?

5. Getting McKernan back was the only questionable deal IMO, and not because we paid too much. IMHO neither Teague nor Morrell would have made our best side anyway, and I agree with trading them while they still had some value. (eg. If we traded Baird 2 years ago after realising he'll never be a gun KP defender we would have got something. Now he is not worth anything). The problem with that deal was McKernan. Was he the player we needed? But I guess if he helps us make the finals in his second year (2005) then I would say the deal was ok.

 

[mav-1]

As for Jess, he is a fair-weather player. He never is part of the reason the team liftsm he is loose and unaccountable as a defender. I dont think he is a defender, more a wingman, but he wasn't getting the ball there either this year.

Sure we all want up backs to be accountable, but we also require run out of defense. If Jess has the ball in his hands, is openent doesn't, thats accountable. Just need the forward to hold the ball in the forward line a bit better (our biggest down fall this year IMO).

One quick question, did you ever have a go at Pickett being unaccountable? At least he count another premeship and a norm smith to his name (oh and another write off!!)

 

[Tas]

Tas, now lets look at some facts:

1. Bell deal - you reckon we got under the market value? We got Sinclair who if traded today would command a late first or second round selection. And that after an ordinary year. After the 2002 season Sinclair was rightly a top 10 player at North. Picks 6 and 8 gave us a go at some of the best talent in the league. Motlop and Smith may not be ideal result (ei Smith) but has nothing to do with the Bell trade. Think about it! Bell was 26. We got a top 10 player in terms of our list and picks 6 and 8!.

Bell left us as a champion on a high, he has been one of the few consistant and fantastic performers for Fremantle since leaving us aswell. He was worth a top 3 pick, the other picks are hit or miss, you get decent talent within the first 3 picks in any given trade year. Once you start drifing out of the top 3 you really need an exceptional year to get something guaranteed out of it. I am not saying I am unhappy that we have motlop, but I think other clubs would have got a better deal.

Sinclair was never a great player for Freo, otherwise they wouldn't have got rid of him, he took years of development to get his skills, fitness and discipline where it is acceptable at AFL level, but he was not a top 10 player. They may have drafted him high but he didn't play like one and after this year I am disappointed in his lack of discipline last year and the way he played this year. He is a good average player, nothing wrong with that.

2. Now compare that to the Thommo deal who is also 26. Also a tall, which means a lot these days. We give picks 10 and 26. I know you may value Bell higher, but Thompson at his best is pretty good. How can you say that Sinclair, 6 and 8 is under the market and 10 and 26 is over is beyond me.

This is a bad comparison because I don't think Thompson is worth what we paid for him. I dont mind that he is at North but I think a top 10 first round pick is generous enough. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire at Hawthorn. Comparing him to Bell is a little comical because Bell is an AA player, a club champion and has played in our premiership era, Thompson has really achieved little at the hawks. Again, he is another good average player. Nothing wrong with that either, i think he is probably a tad more valuable than when we first got Rocca after Collingwood dumped him. Thankfully we didn't have to give the world to get Sav.

3. You claim the Carey deal was made to look better by Carlton's fu#k up. True, but if you don't think that picks 4 and 20 were a good deal for a 31 yo Carey with a dodgy body, who hasn't played a decent game for 2 years and wasn't gonna play for us no matter what then I don't know what is a good deal.

It is not the number of picks, it is the opportunity of replacing a player you are losing with someone else of value. We only came out of that deal well off because of Carlton's blunder. The guy the Bulldogs got for round 4 pick I believe hasn't played a game for them. It wasn't a fantastic year to draft that year so anyone out of the top 2 (Goddard and Wells I believe) was going to be a hit or miss affair.

Carey is the greatest player to ever play the game, even in his diminshed physical capacity and with age he still tore our defense to pieces on several occassions. He was never going to star being the only functional forward, he was meant to help a solid forward line have that extra class and danger about it which is what you need to win a flag. If he had gone to a club with a much better forward line like for example Collingwood with 2 other competitive forwards there aswell then I think Collingwood could have won a flag or two with his class there during the finals. Adelaide just didn't have the players around to support him and make the most of trading him, that is Adelaide's fault and not a problem with Wayne.

4. You reckon we paid too much for Porter? We gave them McKernan who you claim to be a pain in the b#tt, and we got their first 2 picks while giving them our second and third, thus having 2 first round selections in the draft. Porter was younger and considered a better ruckman than McKernan. What is wrong with that deal?

LOL, I know what the trade was. McKernan plus pick 23 and 39 for Porter plus pick 14 and 30. We hot a marginal improvement on our second and third round picks but Porter's career was thought to be over after his injuries and despite Corey's fade out of form he was still the same guy who should have won a Brownlow and had significant performances in our two flags. The washup of that trade was pretty poor for us especially with him winning the B&F for Carlton after leaving. Perhaps it was only Pagan haunting him and following him to Carlton that caused a relapse in his lack of form.

Several years older and now in the twilight of his career after another season in the slums under Pagan and we trade for him again to fill a hole created by Burton's retirement and the lose of most of our tall forwards over the years.

It was a huge gamble to trade him back. I could understand swapping McKernan with Digby, but giving Teague away aswell made me angry at the time of the trade and annoys me to this day after the year he has had after he was given the opportunity to play. Teague always gave 100% for us, put his body on the line like Archer and he had good skills. There is something wrong at the club when guys like him are not given the opportunity in favour of soft unaccountable defenders.

Yes, its good to have run out of defense but if you can't stop the opposition scoring whenever they go forward because your defenders are unaccountable then that run has little value.

Laidley really hasn't got the best out of anyone so far, how many players have seen their careers really move forwards significantly over the last two years? Most of our players are stagnant or have gone backwards over the last few years and that is disturbing to me. We need a massive reversal of form in 2005.

5. Getting McKernan back was the only questionable deal IMO, and not because we paid too much. IMHO neither Teague nor Morrell would have made our best side anyway, and I agree with trading them while they still had some value. (eg. If we traded Baird 2 years ago after realising he'll never be a gun KP defender we would have got something. Now he is not worth anything). The problem with that deal was McKernan. Was he the player we needed? But I guess if he helps us make the finals in his second year (2005) then I would say the deal was ok.

I do not agree with you on that. Teague showed plenty of potential under Pagan, he had limited exposure because Denis never played any kids unless he had to and at the time there was no room in our defense.

I did not mind the club taking the punt on McKernan. My only grief was that we gave him far more than he was worth, it is not a decision based on how Teague played this year but how I felt at the time of the deal. I believe a Morrell/McKernan swap was fair enough. Digby was pretty good for us, not very consistant but i believe he played every game for Carlton this year which is more than what we got out of Corey.

 

[hurricane]

Laidley really hasn't got the best out of anyone so far, how many players have seen their careers really move forwards significantly over the last two years?

Rawlings, Harris, Motlop and Wells unquestionably.
Shannon Watt.
Petrie made huge strides in 2003 but trod water this season.
Leigh Brown (compared to last year, and anything he produced at Freo)
Firrito has moved from a Box Hill listed player to a rising star nominee.
And that's not counting draftees like Urch, Grima, etc, who haven't established themselves yet, but have made significant progress.

throwaway line, Tas, and not backed up by the facts.

 

[spurs]

Shannon Watt, give me a break

 

[hurricane]

Shannon Watt, give me a break

You don't think he's made progress? I'm not saying that he's the answer, but we've gone from a guy who struggled to get a game, let alone a kick, two years ago, to someone who's managed a series of credible performances on the league's best forwards. Sure, he's had some shockers too, but he's a world ahead of where he was under Pagan...

The question wasn't "who is a world beater" it was whether anyone's career had made significant steps forward.

 

[windsock]

At work we have decided to label a colleague "Harry", as in "Harry Potter". He just seems to pot everyone.

Tas, you are a "Harry".

Read Vlad76 and Hurricane's posts. You might learn something about fact and reality.

 

[spurs]

You don't think he's made progress? I'm not saying that he's the answer, but we've gone from a guy who struggled to get a game, let alone a kick, two years ago, to someone who's managed a series of credible performances on the league's best forwards. Sure, he's had some shockers too, but he's a world ahead of where he was under Pagan...

The question wasn't "who is a world beater" it was whether anyone's career had made significant steps forward.

I understood your question and i dont think he has made SIGNIFICANT steps forward. He has the build and agility to be a very good fb, so i can see where Laidley was coming from, but he is not the answer. Hasnt got the football brain or the agro.

Hope he proves me wrong as i dont know you else to put in his place.

 

[hurricane]

We'll beg to differ on the meaning of 'significant' then. No problem.

FWIW I still hold hopes for him. Your assessment of his strengths/weaknesses is pretty accurate, but it's worth remembering that almost no-one has all these qualities early in their career. A natural 'footy brain' can't be picked up, but you can certainly become confident and practised enough to make the correct decision in 95% of cases. Jason Mc. was a good case in point.

I guess we'll see over the next season or two. I'm hoping I'm right, because guys with those athletic gifts + size don't come along too often. It'd be a real waste!

 

[roo9699]

Sinclair to remain a Kangaroo
12:04:56 PM Wed 27 October, 2004
Sportal
Related Content:

Watch the best of Jess Sinclair

Midfielder Jess Sinclair has re-signed with the Kangaroos for a further two seasons, the club announced on Wednesday.

In a statement, the 26-year-old denied he had entertained thoughts of moving to another club, stressing it was always his preference to remain at Arden Street.

"I never had the intention of the leaving the Kangaroos, and the speculation that raged about me wanting a three-year deal was not true," Sinclair said.



"I am very happy with this deal which allows me to continue my career with the club."

"Now this is all over, I can concentrate on having a big pre-season so I can get back into the form I know I am capable of," he added.

The former Docker has clocked up 70 matches with the Kangaroos and has 120 in his career. He played 17 matches in 2004.

Coach Dean Laidley is hopeful of getting more from Sinclair on the back on a good pre-season campaign.

"We are expecting a big season from Jess in 2005 and we are very happy he will be continuing on with our club," Laidley said.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Sinclair to remain a Kangaroo
12:04:56 PM Wed 27 October, 2004
Sportal
Related Content:

Watch the best of Jess Sinclair

Midfielder Jess Sinclair has re-signed with the Kangaroos for a further two seasons, the club announced on Wednesday.

In a statement, the 26-year-old denied he had entertained thoughts of moving to another club, stressing it was always his preference to remain at Arden Street.

"I never had the intention of the leaving the Kangaroos, and the speculation that raged about me wanting a three-year deal was not true," Sinclair said.



"I am very happy with this deal which allows me to continue my career with the club."

"Now this is all over, I can concentrate on having a big pre-season so I can get back into the form I know I am capable of," he added.

The former Docker has clocked up 70 matches with the Kangaroos and has 120 in his career. He played 17 matches in 2004.

Coach Dean Laidley is hopeful of getting more from Sinclair on the back on a good pre-season campaign.

"We are expecting a big season from Jess in 2005 and we are very happy he will be continuing on with our club," Laidley said.

Where are we at with Corey Jones?

 

[Roobunny]

Hurrah! Especially if we have foiled some evil plans by Sheedy!

 

[glen dean]

good news. ... important for our depth. adds flexibility. hopefully can find the touch he had in 2003

 

[kangafruity]

Hey Glen Dean your not a Dugdale are you?

Good news about Jess though, my 12 yr old daughter is over the moon

 

[glen dean]

Hey Glen Dean your not a Dugdale are you?

Good news about Jess though, my 12 yr old daughter is over the moon

sorry kangafruity didnt see your message earlier.. no i am not a dugdale.
glad your daughter is happy. we all will be if he plays to his potential.

 

[Roonaldo!]

Where is Miss I love jess sinclair #9 ?

 

[Shakey]

She's probably too busy to type right now.

 

[lana16]

Where is Miss I love jess sinclair #9 ?

Probably on TSK

 

[benno87]

It was mentioned during the call Friday Night that Laidley has used Sinclair as our loose man back very effectivley, creating a Quarter Back like role for him. Obviously every team now uses a loose man back, and we have used COlbert and Brown in previous times also. But with 22 uncontested possesions [26 total] and 14 marks, Jess was very effective Friday Night.

How have you rated him this season? I know he hasn'thad an opponent, but IMHO he is in our top three players right now, probably with Archer and Grant. Great to see him back in form.

He is creating the play, pushing forward, very much intitating the switches of play and has a lot of composure with the footy. Love wathing Makepeace and Sinclair use each other, they have a fantastic understanding, especially with the kic kout situation, using the short option and giving the 1,2 to run it out of the D50.

Anyway thought he deserved a bit of praise, well done Jess.

 

[superstar]

Wouldn't be surprised if we tagged him this weekend.

Clarke did an excellent defensive job on Chris Johnson yesterday. A similar tactic may used again. Good player is Sinclair.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Wouldn't be surprised if we tagged him this weekend.

Clarke did an excellent defensive job on Chris Johnson yesterday. A similar tactic may used again. Good player is Sinclair.

I agree, it's a tactic more coaches seem to be using. We used Sansbury to tag both Kennelly and Jones against Sydney and the Saints, and he kept them both to eight and 10 touches respectively, and added three goals in the two games. Big win there.

A lot of teams these days have one or two guys in their back half that they'll designate to try and find space, and can be very dangerous setting up play further up the ground. Sinclair has great disposal and is a master of finding space to pick up cheap possessions, and he rarely wastes it.

 

[benno87]

Clarkson just needs to make him accountable, ditto with Makepeace. And assuming Clarkson watched the game Friday Night, i'm sure he will.

You force Makepeace to take a dangerous small forward (Matera, Milne) he will worry himself out of a good game, where as SInclair is a little better at playing defensive, but still not great. I guess this is why Pratt has been so good for us, as we lacked accountable HBFers.

 

[Star]

Great season by Jess so far, was really at the crossroads 10 - 15 games ago. The suspension was a huge hurdle in his career which he has made it over.

Hopefully he can give us 5-6 years of this.

 

[Groucho]

Wouldn't be surprised if we tagged him this weekend.

Clarke did an excellent defensive job on Chris Johnson yesterday. A similar tactic may used again. Good player is Sinclair.

Clarke's gunna be very busy! One other Hawker said they'd use him to tag Wells.
Good idea to tag Jess though. The concept of the "quarterback" in AFL can quickly be rendered redundant by applying a tag. Jason Cloke got away with it for virtually the whole of the 2002 season but once he started to be tagged he became a permanent fixture in the Willy side. Similarly Aussie Jones has been less effective since he started to have a defensive forward placed on him.