A question - How much credit should Peter Schwab get?

[Geelong_Sicko]

Having a beer with a Hawthorn mate. He's still rubbing it in, yeah yeah yeah... Anyway we got down to discussing how Hawthorn's list was built up. I noticed you only had one traded player in your Premiership side. My mate was all over this. I then had my head filled with all sorts of useless crap. One thing struck me though.

Now I haven't been paying attention to all things Hawthorn since the Granny, but I haven't heard much about Peter Schwab, the bloke Clarko took over from.

How much credit can Schwabby get for building his bits of your current list up?

 

[somocca]

Not a great deal. I loved Schwabby as a player, in fact he was one of my favourites. As a coach, he wasn't prepared to make the tough decisions though. I am sure he would be as happy as the next Hawk over the premiership win. Schwabby is a Hawk through and through but he cant take any credit for this Premiership. There was a complete overhaul done at the club when he left.

 

[carntheroos4eva]

Having a beer with a Hawthorn mate. He's still rubbing it in, yeah yeah yeah... Anyway we got down to discussing how Hawthorn's list was built up. I noticed you only had one traded player in your Premiership side. My mate was all over this. I then had my head filled with all sorts of useless crap. One thing struck me though.

Now I haven't been paying attention to all things Hawthorn since the Granny, but I haven't heard much about Peter Schwab, the bloke Clarko took over from.

How much credit can Schwabby get for building his bits of your current list up?

Probably about 50% of the credit. Schwabby did get about half of the guys on our list and Clarko was left to build up the rest.
Pete is one of the smarter guys that probably was a little unlucky in losing his job in the end. I know everyone thought that it was his coaching, really you can't do much with an aging list. So he tried putting in the youth which worked for a while, then we started to get injuries. I was at Pete's last game as coach which was a 55 point loss to port adelaide.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

He has had an effect in 2 ways.
Yes he picked up some handy players, but he also took us to near the bottom of the ladder giving us some handy picks.

FWIW I'm an unabashed fan of Peter Schwab the person and Peter schwab the footballer.
I'm 50/50 on his coaching, and funnily enough 50/50 was pretty much his win loss record.

 

[Loyal Hawk]

He helped bring some good kids to the club and traded back for croad. Surprisingly when you look at the hawks success most would say it is a result of the high draft picks since clarkson took over. However 11 of the hawks 22 on grand final day were drafted before he arrived and the high draft picks since Roughhead lewis and buddy didn't have much impact. Clarko does deserve some credit for turning average players into premiership players, Osborne, Brown, Ladson, Campbell, Sewell and Bateman have all improved out of site in the last couple of years. In the book the draft it was interesting to read that in 2005 Chris Pelchin ranked only 5 of the list as part of the hawks next premiership there was also only 5 probables. Shows that the level of improvement in some 2005 listed Schwab players has come a bit unexpectedly.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

He has had an effect in 2 ways.
Yes he picked up some handy players, but he also took us to near the bottom of the ladder giving us some handy picks.

FWIW I'm an unabashed fan of Peter Schwab the person and Peter schwab the footballer.
I'm 50/50 on his coaching, and funnily enough 50/50 was pretty much his win loss record.

Yeah, these were similar thoughts to mine.

 

[Tricky]

Sorry, not a lot. But just be thankful we weren't under the "guidance" of fellow ABC "experts" Alves and Mclure.

I can't, off the top of my head, think of anyone who has gone backwards under Clarko, other than those few that have suffered injuries or old age.

We tried to trade Sewell for a guy that hardly played a game for Melbourne again after that, so not sure we had much clue how good he was going to be.

Campbell and Ladson have really only arrived since Schwab has gone and Osborne likewise - though that may be more do do with being injury free?

Cheers

 

[RustyHawk]

S2C wrote 06.10.08 16:21

Probably about 50% of the credit. Schwabby did get about half of the guys on our list and Clarko was left to build up the rest.
Pete is one of the smarter guys that probably was a little unlucky in losing his job in the end. I know everyone thought that it was his coaching, really you can't do much with an aging list. So he tried putting in the youth which worked for a while, then we started to get injuries. I was at Pete's last game as coach which was a 55 point loss to port adelaide.

 

[FisherHawk]

In hindsight, it's easy to think that Schwab wasn’t capable of making the hard decisions. He made a few. How many people supported him when he went to trade Croady to Freo for pick 1? Not many I'm sure and certainly not me. He and the recruiting staff obviously realised the talent of that draft and knew they had to take action.

Hawthorn had some fairly handy players running around in the 01 prelim. Unfortunately, most never realised their full potential. Hay, Rawlings, Barker, Holland, Thompson, Lekkas, Chick, Smith have all long gone, but seemed the goods at the time. At what point was Schwab supposed to delist or trade these players?

He has to take some credit for the recruiting of Bateman, Willo, Hodge, Mitch, Browny and Ladson. He just stopped using the draft after 01 and thought we could go onto bigger things with the then current group of players/mates.

Yes, Schwaby, a true Hawthorn man deserves some credit. Not as much as Clarko sure, but I reckon he would have had an ear to ear grin on GF day knowing he did play a small part.

 

[Neville Bartos]

He got us Hodge, so he's A-OK in my books

 

[asanque]

Didn't think much of Schwab's coaching tactics.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

Not a great deal. I loved Schwabby as a player, in fact he was one of my favourites. As a coach, he wasn't prepared to make the tough decisions though. I am sure he would be as happy as the next Hawk over the premiership win. Schwabby is a Hawk through and through but he cant take any credit for this Premiership. There was a complete overhaul done at the club when he left.

.

Exactly, somocca.

 

[Boyler_Room]

He got us to the point of no return, so........maybe some but not a good some.

 

[Elliot G]

He got us Hodge, so he's A-OK in my books

and our captain......

 

[Hawkk]

Has there ever been a club that swept up on a draft more then we did in 2001?

- Hodge VC (pick 1 2001)
- Ladson (pick 16 2001)
- Brown (pick 32 2001)
- Mitchell CAPT (pick 36 2001)
- Williams (pick 43 2001)
- Campbell (rookie 2001)
- Osborne (rookie - 2001)

7/22 Premiership players came from the one draft including the captain and vice captain

 

[Dr.J]

In the cold hard light of day very few players improved under Schwabby
In fact you could argue that many either marked time or went backwards.
(There are plenty of reasons for that - lack of adequate funding being one of them.)

As much as I love Schwabby the player, as a coach he was a disaster.
He presided over a club culture where the individual became more important than the team.
He trusted the senior players and they let him down badly.
Couple that with a simplistic game plan and you have the ingredients for the train wreck that took place.
He allowed Babba to prepare the players as athletes and then wondered why we had record soft tissue injuries.

The damage done under his regime far outweighs any benifits.
Put simply by the end of his reign the club was a rabble.

 

[carntheroos4eva]

In the cold hard light of day very few players improved under Schwabby
In fact you could argue that many either marked time or went backwards.
(There are plenty of reasons for that - lack of adequate funding being one of them.)

As much as I love Schwabby the player, as a coach he was a disaster.
He presided over a club culture where the individual became more important than the team.
He trusted the senior players and they let him down badly.
Couple that with a simplistic game plan and you have the ingredients for the train wreck that took place.
He allowed Babba to prepare the players as athletes and then wondered why we had record soft tissue injuries.

The damage done under his regime far outweighs any benifits.
Put simply by the end of his reign the club was a rabble.

Mate he got us to a Prelim Final in 2001. That's something that shouldn't be sneezed at.

 

[Brown Blood]

In the cold hard light of day very few players improved under Schwabby
In fact you could argue that many either marked time or went backwards.
(There are plenty of reasons for that - lack of adequate funding being one of them.)

As much as I love Schwabby the player, as a coach he was a disaster.
He presided over a club culture where the individual became more important than the team.
He trusted the senior players and they let him down badly.
Couple that with a simplistic game plan and you have the ingredients for the train wreck that took place.
He allowed Babba to prepare the players as athletes and then wondered why we had record soft tissue injuries.

The damage done under his regime far outweighs any benifits.
Put simply by the end of his reign the club was a rabble.

I don't think it is quite as black & white as you say doc.

I think he started of quite well, remember we only missed playing off in a GF due to one-sided umpiring and a goalpost under his reign - of course after that the team (and club) got way ahead of themselves - we also had in fact peaked and combined with some issues out of his control (injuries, reports, off field resignations) led to him quite rightly not having his contract renewed and in fact being released early when the club (dicker & dunstall) realised it needed to make a fresh start.

At the end of the day I think he (just like knights) are perhaps not quite suited to the caper of coaching and all it entails.

 

[t3te50]

I remember going to the games when Schwabby was coaching. It was horrendous..the players were disinterested, but he kept playing them week in week out.

 

[carntheroos4eva]

I remember going to the games when Schwabby was coaching. It was horrendous..the players were disinterested, but he kept playing them week in week out.

He had to play them. It was the only way how we could win games.

It was an aging list problem that got him sacked, not his coaching.