Current Abduction of 4yo Blowholes Shacks WA *Terence Kelly Convicted

[Kurve]

MEDIA
Current - The Bunker Part 2

 

[John Kasich]

Was there actual visual footage of Cleo on the CCTV, or was it just audio only?

Were there other young kids at the camp site that could of sounded like Cleo? Could the cops be trying to hide something by saying they have audio of Cleo at the campsite?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Where are we up to now with an abduction scenario?

Looks like we've ruled out petty thief turned child abductor by chance meeting so we'll go straight to child abductor with/without priors.

This guy goes to a camp ground which may or may not contain children, a week after school holidays i might add which you'd assume would be a better time to find children camping but anyway, he leaves his phone at home or switched off, because he doesn't want to leave an electronic footprint on any of those towers whilst he abducts a child, parks his car well away so it isn't linked to his impending child abduction and goes wandering around a remote campground at 1am in the morning.
By chance he happens to hear a child wake up and the ensuing exchange with her mother who gets her a drink.
He's amped up and decides to hide for however long it takes them to all go back to sleep, but not too far away as he's able to see the divider that provides him the required cover to abduct a child a mere meter away from her parent/s within a tent and he needs to know when they do finally fall back asleep to take his opportunity.
When the coast is clear, he sneaks over, unzips the tent and see's a child lying under an unzipped sleeping bag thats neatly tucked under the mattress by Mum.
He reaches in but rather than pull back the sleeping bag and take the child he decides to untuck the sleeping bag and take that too which naturally disturbs the now light weight air mattress.
He then carries the child and unzipped sleeping bag all the way back to the car he left a long way away to prevent it being seen and linked to the child abduction he's just committed and disappears into the night without leaving a trace and 12 days later is still undetected.

 

[JWS2019]

So to be honest I’m surprised that anyone questions any scenario ? These are not normal people that take kids and opportunities arise to them in very different scenarios that the Normal “whatever normal is” person would understand or consider.

 

[Wombot]

Ok
So he's a career offender of this type of crime, that just happened to be prowling around a camp ground at the exact moment a child wakes to need a drink and hears an exchange between child and Mother.
Even though he's amped up he decides to hide out of sight but close enough to see and hear when all are back asleep and in the dark overcast conditions he concludes that within the tent is a divider that provides him cover in order to unzip the tent and abduct a child a mere meter away from her parent/s, he then creeps over, unzips the tent, see's the child under the unzipped sleeping bag carefully tucked in by Mum and decides rather than simply pull back the sleeping bag and scoop up the child, he takes the child and untucks the sleeping bag which would have disturbed the then light weight air mattress and retreats to his vehicle which by this time has been sitting close by for an hour and disappears into the night and is undetected 12 days later.

The sleeping bag may have simply come along with the child, wedged between he and her.

 

[Wombot]

Where are we up to now with an abduction scenario?

Looks like we've ruled out petty thief turned child abductor by chance meeting so we'll go straight to child abductor with/without priors.

This guy goes to a camp ground which may or may not contain children, a week after school holidays i might add which you'd assume would be a better time to find children camping but anyway, he leaves his phone at home or switched off, because he doesn't want to leave an electronic footprint on any of those towers, whilst he abducts a child, parks his car well away so it isn't linked to his impending child abduction and goes wandering around a remote campground at 1am in the morning.
By chance he happens to hear a child wake up and the ensuing exchange with her mother who gets her a drink.
He's amped up and decides to hide for however long it takes them to all go back to sleep, but not too far away as he's able to see the divider that provides him the required cover to abduct a child a mere meter away from her parent/s within a tent and he needs to know when they do finally fall back asleep to take his opportunity.
When the coast is clear, he sneaks over, unzips the tent and see's a child lying under an unzipped sleeping bag thats neatly tucked under the mattress by Mum.
He reaches in but rather than pull back the sleeping bag and take the child he decides to untuck the sleeping bag and take that too which naturally disturbs the now light weight air mattress.
He then carries the child and unzipped sleeping bag all the way back to the car he left a long way away to prevent it being seen and linked to the child abduction he's just committed and disappears into the night without leaving a trace and 12 days later is still undetected.

I never said ‘petty thief turned child abductor’ myself.

Likely he is a pedophile but was initially at that location for other reasons. No one here has given good reason to rule that out that I’m aware of.

I just don’t buy that he followed the family or targeted that victim prior to that night. That’s atypical for this kind of crime.

 

[Kurve]

If he had already knocked stuff off, he’d probably be out of there. So I doubt he stole anything prior to the

I noted it though that the police at a presser, when asked if anything else was missing, declined to answer and said they won't be commenting on that specifically. That led me to suspect that there might have been but it's this information they'll hold back as knowledge only the offender would have. (outside of the family)

 

[DropBearess]

No matter how much thought l put into this case; no matter how much l read about it; no matter how many theories arise; there's one thing that flummoxes me and gets in the way of everything every time.

The sleeping bag. Why take it? It just doesn't make sense. Taking an item of comfort to a child has been historically linked to cases where the abductor has some feelings for the child, or needs a covering for the child because he can't face what he's about to do, or has already done.

Jon Benet Ramsay was found wrapped in her own blanket. Jaidyn Leske was found in his own sleeping bag. This has to be someone who knew little Cleo.

 

[Collie_wobbles]

Was there actual visual footage of Cleo on the CCTV, or was it just audio only?

Were there other young kids at the camp site that could of sounded like Cleo? Could the cops be trying to hide something by saying they have audio of Cleo at the campsite?

No visual evidence only audio...but what's not to say it was a recorded video playing from a mobile phone or in fact another child at the campsite.

 

[deanc]

Where are we up to now with an abduction scenario?

Looks like we've ruled out petty thief turned child abductor by chance meeting so we'll go straight to child abductor with/without priors.

This guy goes to a camp ground which may or may not contain children, a week after school holidays i might add which you'd assume would be a better time to find children camping but anyway, he leaves his phone at home or switched off, because he doesn't want to leave an electronic footprint on any of those towers whilst he abducts a child, parks his car well away so it isn't linked to his impending child abduction and goes wandering around a remote campground at 1am in the morning.
By chance he happens to hear a child wake up and the ensuing exchange with her mother who gets her a drink.
He's amped up and decides to hide for however long it takes them to all go back to sleep, but not too far away as he's able to see the divider that provides him the required cover to abduct a child a mere meter away from her parent/s within a tent and he needs to know when they do finally fall back asleep to take his opportunity.
When the coast is clear, he sneaks over, unzips the tent and see's a child lying under an unzipped sleeping bag thats neatly tucked under the mattress by Mum.
He reaches in but rather than pull back the sleeping bag and take the child he decides to untuck the sleeping bag and take that too which naturally disturbs the now light weight air mattress.
He then carries the child and unzipped sleeping bag all the way back to the car he left a long way away to prevent it being seen and linked to the child abduction he's just committed and disappears into the night without leaving a trace and 12 days later is still undetected.

While most of that is conceivable and likely partly true - at the risk of sounding flippant, if you presented this as part of a screenplay for a TV series or movie, you'd get laughed out of the room, such is the implausibility/unlikelihood of such a scenario - but here we are...

 

[PenfoldsFan]

The sleeping bag may have simply come along with the child, wedged between he and her.

What do you mean?

Are you suggesting he just reached in and grabbed the whole lot and picked it up?
Im not sure if you've been camping before but sleeping bags and air mattresses make quite a bit of noise when being dragged or moved around against the typical bucket type floor of those tents, i know, i have a Coleman instant up gold series.
And thats before you even consider the noise of the zip being opened before he gets that far and the child when disturbed who's only recently fallen back to sleep.
None of which wakes up either parent who have also just gone back to sleep.

See if were going to accept the abduction theory then there needs to be a scenario that fits all the pieces and is basically fool proof as 12 days later there are virtually no leads.

 

[Wombot]

Why is it likely a child abductor/murderer is a campsite thief? I don't see how the two actions are in any way related.

I guess it’s because it’s likely he didn’t know the child previously so didn’t know that such an opportunity would arrive. If it was opportunistic, why else would someone be at that location. My first suggestion on this board was that he was peeping through caravans. As in a peeping tom. But would you put theft beyond someone like that? I wouldn’t. So I went along with potential thief too. Just a scumbag opportunist who was obviously already with pedophile tendencies.

 

[Rocky2014]

I’m saying he’s likely a pedophile who didn’t expect a child when he went to the camp but took the opportunity when it presented itself. He may have been there for theft initially.

Yep no argument on that from me

 

[skygem]

No matter how much thought l put into this case; no matter how much l read about it; no matter how many theories arise; there's one thing that flummoxes me and gets in the way of everything every time.

The sleeping bag. Why take it? It just doesn't make sense. Taking an item of comfort to a child has been historically linked to cases where the abductor has some feelings for the child, or needs a covering for the child because he can't face what he's about to do, or has already done.

Jon Benet Ramsay was found wrapped in her own blanket. Jaidyn Leske was found in his own sleeping bag. This has to be someone who knew little Cleo.

could it be that somewhere in the sleeping bag vicinity is where the parents kept their purse/handbag/wallet keys etc

 

[Wombot]

What do you mean?

Are you suggesting he just reached in and grabbed the whole lot and picked it up?
Im not sure if you've been camping before but sleeping bags and air mattresses make quite a bit of noise when being dragged or moved around against the typical bucket type floor of those tents, i know, i have a Coleman instant up gold series.
And thats before you even consider the noise of the zip being opened before he gets that far and the child when disturbed who's only recently fallen back to sleep.
None of which wakes up either parent who have also just gone back to sleep.

See if were going to accept the abduction theory then there needs to be a scenario that fits all the pieces and is basically fool proof as 12 days later there are virtually no leads.

It’s not fool proof to me as I think he will be caught.

It’s not so remarkable that he achieved it. He was bold, had a head start and is a loner in a sleepy backwater. Add a little luck and scumbags like this succeed for a while.

As to the sound in the tent well that’s why he chose the dead of night. He may have heard the snoring of a parent. I’m not going to think that the noise is enough to definitely wake someone up.

 

[Kurve]

If he had already knocked stuff off, he’d probably be out of there. So I doubt he stole anything prior to the

Then you're suggesting he went straight to their tent which implies he knew where and what he was looking for passing everywhere else that might have had opportunities.

My thoughts were that if it was totally random and he was creeping around thieving, that their tent probably wasn't the first one he went to.

 

[ChampRevesby]

I’m saying he’s likely a pedophile who didn’t expect a child when he went to the camp but took the opportunity when it presented itself. He may have been there for theft initially.

Was it unusual for this particular campsite to have children staying?

 

[Awakening]

If I go only on the information that WAPOL has released and what the mainstream media has reported on with supporting evidence - ie photos of the police with evidence bags - then I could personally argue most of the scenarios put out on forums and social media EXCEPT for "child wandering off on their own"

 

[broken paradigm]

You obviously can’t fault the police for this - they are just following every possible lead - but it sends a mixed message. On one hand, we think she’s been abducted but on the other we’ll search the parents’ house for seven hours.

There have been plenty of crimes where the police have been content for someone they suspect of committing a crime to think they are following other avenues, only to charge them when the case is strong enough. Hard not to think that’s possible here.

Police spoke to neighbours before the big forensic search. Could it be a neighbour that is one of the registered sex offenders of Carnarvon? One neighbour has a caravan were they at the camping ground? Were they the people that Ellie was referring to when she said they knew others at the camp?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I never said ‘petty thief turned child abductor’ myself.

Likely he is a pedophile but was initially at that location for other reasons. No one here has given good reason to rule that out that I’m aware of.

I just don’t buy that he followed the family or targeted that victim prior to that night. That’s atypical for this kind of crime.

So if he's not there for child abduction or theft why wouldn't he have a phone, or why would it be switched off and why would he park where no one noticed him?

I dont believe it was pre planned either, which leaves only someone already on site who see's her in the brief time before bed and either acts themselves or arranges someone else, both of which should have already found them in the net or its someone who rocks up to a remote campsite for some other reason and decides to park well away and either leave their phone at home or switch it off incase they commit a serious crime that would see a phone leave incriminating evidence on the towers.

 

[squashface]

No matter how much thought l put into this case; no matter how much l read about it; no matter how many theories arise; there's one thing that flummoxes me and gets in the way of everything every time.

The sleeping bag. Why take it? It just doesn't make sense. Taking an item of comfort to a child has been historically linked to cases where the abductor has some feelings for the child, or needs a covering for the child because he can't face what he's about to do, or has already done.

Jon Benet Ramsay was found wrapped in her own blanket. Jaidyn Leske was found in his own sleeping bag. This has to be someone who knew little Cleo.

Easier to scoop up a child without disturbing them by taking them and the sleeping bag rather than pulling it off then grabbing them I would suspect

 

[Redacted]

A male aged 40s with a beard driving a small red car was reported to Police in July 2014 for attempting to abduct a girl at the blow holes campsite.

Warning of attempted abduction at Cleo site years ago

Alarm bells of an attempted abduction at the Blowholes campsite — where it is believed four-year-old Cleo Smith was snatched — were raised more than seven years ago.

thewest.com.au

'A social media post on a local Carnarvon chat page revealed a girl was approached by a “male aged in his late 40s with a beard” and who was driving a “small red car” at the popular coastal campground in July 2014.
The girl’s mother said she reported the incident to police at the time.'

'“ATTENTION PLEASE BE AWARE...” the mother’s post started.
“The man asked her if she would get in the car and go for a drive.
“She said no and took off straight back to camp.
“Sorry I don’t have a better description as she was quite freaked out.
“The police have bn (sic) notified.
“Good time to remind our precious one (sic) of stranger danger.”'

View attachment 1268959

Cleo Smith search: Mother warns of attempted abduction at Blowholes campsite in 2014 https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cl...-at-blowholes-campsite-in-2014-ng-b882054828z

Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk

 

[PenfoldsFan]

While most of that is conceivable and likely partly true - at the risk of sounding flippant, if you presented this as part of a screenplay for a TV series or movie, you'd get laughed out of the room, such is the implausibility/unlikelihood of such a scenario - but here we are...

And thats my point, its ok to say, abduction, but then you have to say ok, how did it unfold in such a manner to leave no trace, no visuals of perp or vehicle, no physical evidence, no electronic evidence, nothing.

 

[Wombot]

So if he's not there for child abduction or theft why wouldn't he have a phone, or why would it be switched off and why would he park where no one noticed him?

I dont believe it was pre planned either, which leaves only someone already on site who see's her in the brief time before bed and either acts themselves or arranges someone else, both of which should have already found them in the net or its someone who rocks up to a remote campsite for some other reason and decides to park well away and either leave their phone at home or switch it off incase they commit a serious crime that would see a phone leave incriminating evidence on the towers.

If he’s going to be peeping in caravans or is there for any other nefarious reason, he doesn’t want his phone going off in the middle of it. Nor does he want something that falls out of his pocket if he has to run. He likely wouldn’t carry it. He may carry it in the car but do the towers pick up on phones which are off? He may be out of credit and left it at home. He may have simply forgot it at home.

 

[broken paradigm]

A big shoutout to WAPOL - AFP - ADF - Telstra and all the locals and local business with a helping hand or helicopter for all their hard and smart work in this case so far. Including all those who have helped by doing absolutely nothing to help and quietly got out of the way of police investigations.

WA’s top cop says Cleo’s parents not suspects

‘The parents have been nothing but helpful. We’ve worked very closely with them, they’ve let us into their home, they’ve let us into their cars, their phones, everything.’

thewest.com.au

'But Mr Blanch said the search at the home of Ellie Smith and Jake Gliddon was a routine investigative practice. After seven hours, forensic officers left the home with two evidence bags. It remains unclear as to what was in them.

“We must do a thorough investigation,” Mr Blanch told 6PR. “The parents have been nothing but helpful. We’ve worked very closely with them, they’ve let us into their home, they’ve let us into their cars, their phones, everything.

“Our job is to eliminate everyone that was at that campsite, and that is a systematic and thorough approach in doing so in any investigation. And that really is the focus of the investigation at the moment.”

But Mr Blanch said the search at the home of Ellie Smith and Jake Gliddon was a routine investigative practice. After seven hours, forensic officers left the home with two evidence bags. It remains unclear as to what was in them.

“We must do a thorough investigation,” Mr Blanch told 6PR. “The parents have been nothing but helpful. We’ve worked very closely with them, they’ve let us into their home, they’ve let us into their cars, their phones, everything.

“Our job is to eliminate everyone that was at that campsite, and that is a systematic and thorough approach in doing so in any investigation. And that really is the focus of the investigation at the moment.

Cleo being potentially abducted is the “highest probability” of what happened according to Mr Blanch, but police remain open-minded.”'

'Mr Blanch said the whole of Australia has come forward offering their services to help. Including the AFP who are reportedly using secret technology to aid investigators, as well as Telstra who have offered their phone services and tracking abilities to WA Police.

“Australia has stepped up and come to ask how can we help, and as tragic as this incident is, it is comforting to know that Australians and Aussies and businesses step forward to help when they can,” Mr Blanch said.'

https://www.6pr.com.au/acting-police-commissioner-gives-update-on-cleo-smith/

Acting Police Commissioner gives update on Cleo Smith - 6PR Breakfast with Gareth Parker - Omny.fm

Acting Police Commissioner Col Blanch says police are working on eliminating everyone as a suspect at the Blow Holes campsite the night four-year-old girl Cleo Smith disappeared.

omny.fm

View attachment 1268709

Looks like bags contain 'soft' items. Maybe laundry items.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

No matter how much thought l put into this case; no matter how much l read about it; no matter how many theories arise; there's one thing that flummoxes me and gets in the way of everything every time.

The sleeping bag. Why take it? It just doesn't make sense. Taking an item of comfort to a child has been historically linked to cases where the abductor has some feelings for the child, or needs a covering for the child because he can't face what he's about to do, or has already done.

Jon Benet Ramsay was found wrapped in her own blanket. Jaidyn Leske was found in his own sleeping bag. This has to be someone who knew little Cleo.

It went weird for me when Mum said she tucked the sleeping bag in, and im not doubting her recollection.
Before that i assumed, like many probably, that he just picked up the sleeping bag with Cleo in it, but now we're told the sleeping bag was tucked in, well, the only way you can tuck a sleeping bag in is if its unzipped and being used as a blanket/quilt etc. which brings us to why take the sleeping bag and how much noise would pulling it out from under a single bed mattress make as it would disturb the mattress which in turn would make noise against the PVC floor of the tent.