Current Abduction of 4yo Blowholes Shacks WA *Terence Kelly Convicted

[Kurve]

MEDIA
Current - The Bunker Part 2

 

[broken paradigm]

Then you're suggesting he went straight to their tent which implies he knew where and what he was looking for passing everywhere else that might have had opportunities.

My thoughts were that if it was totally random and he was creeping around thieving, that their tent probably wasn't the first one he went to.

Do we know how many campers were using tents on Friday night? Maybe they were the only family doing so? In media photos I haven't spotted another tent.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

If he’s going to be peeping in caravans or is there for any other nefarious reason, he doesn’t want his phone going off in the middle of it. Nor does he want something that falls out of his pocket if he has to run. He likely wouldn’t carry it. He may carry it in the car but do the towers pick up on phones which are off? He may be out of credit and left it at home. He may have simply forgot it at home.

So he's a peeping tom who's escalated to child abduction by chance encounter?

A possibly amped up peeping tom who's decided to hide in the bush very close to his intended target who he hasnt actually seen while he waits for her and her parent/s to go back to sleep so he can unzip their tent and abduct her from a mere meter away from her parent/s because he knows the tent has a divider which provides him cover.

 

[broken paradigm]

It went weird for me when Mum said she tucked the sleeping bag in, and im not doubting her recollection.
Before that i assumed, like many probably, that he just picked up the sleeping bag with Cleo in it, but now we're told the sleeping bag was tucked in, well, the only way you can tuck a sleeping bag in is if its unzipped and being used as a blanket/quilt etc. which brings us to why take the sleeping bag and how much noise would pulling it out from under a single bed mattress make as it would disturb the mattress which in turn would make noise against the PVC floor of the tent.

Cleo may have untucked the sleeping bag whilst getting her drink. Sounds to me like neither parent actually got up to give Cleo her drink. Mum said she told Cleo to go back to bed and then said she stuck her head around the divider to check if the baby was still asleep.

Edit. Above in 2nd media interview on 7.

 

[Kurve]

Do we know how many campers were using tents on Friday night? Maybe they were the only family doing so? In media photos I haven't spotted another tent.

Even if there wasn't, caravans have annexes and gear lying around outside with even better cover than creeping around a tent.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Just on the CCTV, based on what we've been told.

The parent's vehicle passed the shack on the right hand side (RHS when looking at the shack from the front), which is the opposite end to the camera. This activated the motion sensor on the camera and it started recording. It didnt pick up Cleo in the vision. The police said the voice was recorded soon after arrival, which I assume to be just as they got out of the car - whilst the camera was still recording from the motion activation.

You can set most cameras to record for a set period of time before and after an activation event, so we could assume that the shack had it set to at least a minute or two post-activation. That's why they say it's limited - enough to capture her voice for a short period of time and prove she was there.

Again, based on what we've been told, voice/noise activation doesn't appear to have been how this camera was set up at the time. And the vision is relatively narrow - the camera has a maximum 110 degree field of vision, and that's before you consider it being set back in a box, obstructions from the shack verandah timber and the angle it was pointing down at.

Unfortunately, unless the car they are chasing also passed by the same side of that shack, I don't think they'd get anything else from the camera.

not sure if this has been covered since I stopped reading al this thread, but there is a bunch of talk about Field of View, does anybody know what the Depth of Field is of that Camera?

The Depth of Field could be quite shallow, with the focal length near the house, this would makes sense for identifying potential intruders clearly.

In that case, irrespective of field of view, most anything further distant from the door would not be in focus.

I think it depends on the aperture diameter/F-stop for the lens on that camera...or something..gets confusing.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

No visual evidence only audio...but what's not to say it was a recorded video playing from a mobile phone or in fact another child at the campsite.

This is something I’ve wondered about since early on.

 

[broken paradigm]

No visual evidence only audio...but what's not to say it was a recorded video playing from a mobile phone or in fact another child at the campsite.

Was there another child at the camp site? I am sure they have checked with other people who knew Cleo to verify the voice was hers.

 

[tenderwarrior]

So he's a peeping tom who's escalated to child abduction by chance encounter?

I am guessing that is generally how it goes? Not so much the chance encounter, but the escalation.

 

[Anja_Nees]

I appreciate the article earlier in the thread regarding the profile of the average child abductor and how they often have not previously offended.

While I’m sure that’s true, it’s still worth keeping in mind the likes of Brett Cowan. He’d viciously r*ped two boys previously but spent a paltry amount of time in jail. While not an abduction, Masa Vukotic’s killer had a similarly horrific criminal record.

Once someone has started down that path, the odds they’re going to become a vaguely useful member of society are not high. It must be absolutely galling for their families that they were out in the community.

A discussion for another thread, but there’s a good argument for dramatically harsher sentences or indefinite detention for repeat violent sex offenders.

 

[broken paradigm]

Even if there wasn't, caravans have annexes and gear lying around outside with even better cover than creeping around a tent.

Experienced caravaners and RV owners don't leave much lying around . If they did that would be an easier target than unzipping a tent imo.

 

[broken paradigm]

I appreciate the article earlier in the thread regarding the profile of the average child abductor and how they often have not previously offended.

While I’m sure that’s true, it’s still worth keeping in mind the likes of Brett Cowan. He’d viciously r*ped two boys previously but spent a paltry amount of time in jail. While not an abduction, Masa Vukotic’s killer had a similarly horrific criminal record.

Once someone has started down that path, the odds they’re going to become a vaguely useful member of society are not high. It must be absolutely galling for their families that they were out in the community.

A discussion for another thread, but there’s a good argument for dramatically harsher sentences or indefinite detention for repeat violent sex offenders.

Very well articulated!

I have had thoughts if any of the registered sex offenders living in Carnarvon area had spent time in same Qld prison as Cowan or had been acquainted.

 

[BigPond101]

The timeline is so weird the step father went to bed at 8pm and didn't get up until 6am? That's 10 continuous hours in bed ? For a young fit guy ? And not even his regular comfy bed, in a tent ? Even if he works a physical job at the mine I can't buy that. I've worked around a lot of physical tiring jobs you don't collapse into bed at 8pm and not get up until 6am.

I don't think he's guilty but there must be so much the police aren't telling us about what happened that night. The step father didn't go into in some zombie state for 10 hours on the other side of the tent

 

[Anja_Nees]

Very well articulated!

I have had thoughts if any of the registered sex offenders living in Carnarvon area had spent time in same Qld prison as Cowan or had been acquainted.

It’s an interesting one. I’m aware there is provision for indefinite detention at least in some jurisdictions but the bar is (understandably) high. Still, if people like the above (and say Adrian Bayley) are not caught by it something is wrong.

Cowan has apparently had a torrid time in prison, including being scalded etc. I do wonder whether some of these guys swap notes behind bars though.

 

[broken paradigm]

I am guessing that is generally how it goes? Not so much the chance encounter, but the escalation.

Given there had been an alleged prior tent invasion at same campsite not long ago that wasn't reported maybe there were other invasions as well.

 

[tenderwarrior]

Very well articulated!

I have had thoughts if any of the registered sex offenders living in Carnarvon area had spent time in same Qld prison as Cowan or had been acquainted.

 

[broken paradigm]

The timeline is so weird the step father went to bed at 8pm and didn't get up until 6am? That's 10 continuous hours in bed ? For a young fit guy ? And not even his regular comfy bed, in a tent ? Even if he works a physical job at the mine I can't buy that. I've worked around a lot of physical tiring jobs you don't collapse into bed at 8pm and not get up until 6am.

I don't think he's guilty but there must be so much the police aren't telling us about what happened that night. The step father didn't go into in some zombie state for 10 hours on the other side of the tent

As far as I am aware it is said Cleo went to bed at 8pm. I dont recall a time for parents being said.

 

[Rocky2014]

It went weird for me when Mum said she tucked the sleeping bag in, and im not doubting her recollection.
Before that i assumed, like many probably, that he just picked up the sleeping bag with Cleo in it, but now we're told the sleeping bag was tucked in, well, the only way you can tuck a sleeping bag in is if its unzipped and being used as a blanket/quilt etc. which brings us to why take the sleeping bag and how much noise would pulling it out from under a single bed mattress make as it would disturb the mattress which in turn would make noise against the PVC floor of the tent.

The sleeping bag was an adult one, and we don’t know the size of the mattress - it could have been a very small one, rather than a full single mattress. So it could still have been zipped up.

Also, I think I recall the mum saying Cleo got out of bed to get water (or at least that after she gave her water, she told her to go back to bed, which I assume to mean she had gotten out of the sleeping bag) - if that’s the case, I doubt she would have been as tightly tucked in second time around.

 

[Wombot]

Then you're suggesting he went straight to their tent which implies he knew where and what he was looking for passing everywhere else that might have had opportunities.

My thoughts were that if it was totally random and he was creeping around thieving, that their tent probably wasn't the first one he went to.

No, it doesn’t imply that he went straight to their tent. I presume that thieves may search an entire location (in this case campground) and not find anything. So he could have been around the camp or not. Either way I think that he heard the interaction at 0130hrs. But maybe not. I guess it’s possible he simply peeked through the open tent door and saw two children and no adults in the front room.

I’m not saying you’re wrong that he had stolen something already from another camp and taken it to his vehicle but probably not. A smart thief would depart after taking something valuable. He may have been confident but going back and forth to the car like he’s shopping is unlikely. Not impossible mind you.

The cops should ask everyone there if anything was stolen, you’re right, but don’t count on it is what I’m saying.

 

[broken paradigm]

It’s an interesting one. I’m aware there is provision for indefinite detention at least in some jurisdictions but the bar is (understandably) high. Still, if people like the above (and say Adrian Bayley) are not caught by it something is wrong.

Cowan has apparently had a torrid time in prison, including being scalded etc. I do wonder whether some of these guys swap notes behind bars though.

Scalded with boiled jam!

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Cleo may have untucked the sleeping bag whilst getting her drink. Sounds to me like neither parent actually got up to give Cleo her drink. Mum said she told Cleo to go back to bed and then said she stuck her head around the divider to check if the baby was still asleep.

Edit. Above in 2nd media interview on 7.

In the first interview Mum says she got up to get her some water, if she'd untucked herself surely Mum would have tucked her in so she was warm and safe, thats what she said she did when putting her to bed at 8pm in the second interview.
You'd imagine it'd be even colder at 1.30am so more incentive to tuck her in wouldnt you say?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I am guessing that is generally how it goes? Not so much the chance encounter, but the escalation.

Agreed.

 

[Zing13]

They simply might not even own a mobile phone. Who they going to call/text anyway? I assume they don't have many friends/family especially if they can drop off the face of the earth no leads....

 

[Zing13]

And if the early 90s Ford Falcon that popped up on that mine site HSE poster is their car maybe their even less likely of owning a mobile.... Old school? Hermit?

 

[Collie_wobbles]

Do we know how many campers were using tents on Friday night? Maybe they were the only family doing so? In media photos I haven't spotted another tent.

Was reported they were the only campers in a tent that night

 

[PenfoldsFan]

As far as I am aware it is said Cleo went to bed at 8pm. I dont recall a time for parents being said.

In the first interview they say cleo had dinner and went to bed at 8pm, their little one had dinner, she went to bed, they had dinner, they went to bed.
Sounds to me like it wasnt much later.