Current Abduction of 4yo Blowholes Shacks WA *Terence Kelly Convicted

[Kurve]

MEDIA
Current - The Bunker Part 2

 

[Kurve]

Hey Woosh hope you are well.

I totally get the anger and 100% agree that people need to be accountable for their actions regardless of what led them there but I do think there is merit in understanding a perps background, motives etc to understand the who what where when why.

Indigenous Australians have generational trauma hard wired into their neurology and no doubt TK has a lot of other childhood trauma too growing up in an under privileged regional area in a split parent household.

Does that make him any less accountable for his actions? No

Does that reduce the impact on Cleo, her family and the Australian community? No

What it does do is help understand what drove TK to do what he did, what his prospects of reoffending/rehabilitation are like and how we prevent future offences like this down the track.

We have a long way to go in understanding how childhood trauma hard wires peoples brain and what it means for them over their lifespan.
Hopefully as mentioned earlier the media leave Ellie, Cleo and fam alone and they get a fu** load of support to ensure she isn't scarred from this.

The background of the offender is something we're generally prohibited from discussing anyway under rules of sub judice and only factors in at sentencing. Bradley Robert Edwards the Claremont killer was of Aboriginal descent, we all knew and it didn't come onto the board. Delving into anybody's background usually requires looking into their family as well, we can't do that either as they're not on trial.

We had someone yesterday lob in with a comment that the only reason this is grabbing so much press is because the offender is Aboriginal and 'white supremacy'. That would have sent this thread sideways.

We're in a bit a tough spot here.

 

[broken paradigm]

Hey Woosh hope you are well.

I totally get the anger and 100% agree that people need to be accountable for their actions regardless of what led them there but I do think there is merit in understanding a perps background, motives etc to understand the who what where when why.

Indigenous Australians have generational trauma hard wired into their neurology and no doubt TK has a lot of other childhood trauma too growing up in an under privileged regional area in a split parent household.

Does that make him any less accountable for his actions? No

Does that reduce the impact on Cleo, her family and the Australian community? No

What it does do is help understand what drove TK to do what he did, what his prospects of reoffending/rehabilitation are like and how we prevent future offences like this down the track.

We have a long way to go in understanding how childhood trauma hard wires peoples brain and what it means for them over their lifespan.
Hopefully as mentioned earlier the media leave Ellie, Cleo and fam alone and they get a fu** load of support to ensure she isn't scarred from this.

Dont forget and HOW! Thoroughly agree with your sentiment.

 

[broken paradigm]

The background of the offender is something we're generally prohibited from discussing anyway under rules of sub judice and only factors in at sentencing. Bradley Robert Edwards the Claremont killer was also of aboriginal descent, we all knew it and it didn't come onto the board. Delving into anybody's background usually requires looking into their family as well, we can't do that either as they're not on trial.

We had someone yesterday lob in with a comment that the only reason this is grabbing so much press is because the offender is Aboriginal and 'white supremacy'. That would have sent this thread sideways.

We're in a bit a tough spot here.

I personally don't believe the ethnicity background of the alleged offender - the only person currently charged - had anything to do with his actual offending. It is his mindset and motive and how his background enabled a whole pile of factors fed into the cauldron for him to morph into what is said to have occurred; as the most critical and important aspect.

It is absolutely critical that lessons are learned (legally and for all parents and the public at large) from this atrocious matter. I can't imagine for a nanosecond what the outcome would have been if the final pieces of the puzzle hadn't fell into place at the particular point in time they did.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Dogs_R_Us doesn't looked photoshopped much to me, this was a still pic from a newsreport on TV

You might be right. I don’t mean it was falsified but enhanced?

 

[Lions777]

The other day I saw a boy who was quite young playing by a drain on his own. One car pulled up and a lady got out assuming she was checking on him. I did the same. Moments later his mum came around the corner. Still it pays to check and keep an eye out I mean in a non creepy way. I don’t really care if I’m perceived that way. As long as our littlest are safe.

 

[BFew]

I’m more interested in how he managed to get a 4 year old out of a tent so quietly and keep her for so long in the middle of a town that was madly looking for her…

Probably more luck than anything else.

Replay this child stealing event again, and it would be remarkable if things ended up where they are now, let alone in the same timeframe.

 

[BFew]

We need the mods to tell us maybe TW, but did a regular contributor to this thread suddenly stop contributing, oh, just a few days ago?!

This thread might get a little busier with posters who checked out recently, coming back to post at least once, to signal that they are not currently in Casuarina.

 

[Eagle Wrath]

I expect a few cold cases up the Carnarvon way to be solved as a result of this Child stealing investigation. They have taken so many peoples DNA, that they will most likely solve a few cases as a result.
Could be just burglaries and such but perhaps some major crimes may be solved too. This case provided a great reason for police to take DNA from whoever they pleased, which is not normally allowed without a charge.

 

[zedx]

The background of the offender is something we're generally prohibited from discussing anyway under rules of sub judice and only factors in at sentencing. Bradley Robert Edwards the Claremont killer was of Aboriginal descent, we all knew and it didn't come onto the board. Delving into anybody's background usually requires looking into their family as well, we can't do that either as they're not on trial.

We had someone yesterday lob in with a comment that the only reason this is grabbing so much press is because the offender is Aboriginal and 'white supremacy'. That would have sent this thread sideways.

We're in a bit a tough spot here.

This case received huge media attention from the 'get go'. The reason being a small child was stolen from within a tent just metres from her parents in the middle of night at a popular camping ground with barely a clue to be found. Within days Police realized she was most likely not missing and had more likely been abducted. It was a mystery. At this point the Police requested/pleaded the public's help and public rallied. No one had any idea who the perp was, let alone their ethnicity. Now that the perp has been caught and publicly revealed, we know.
Back ground, ethnicity etc will come in question, but at the end of the day its about who he is as an individual.
BF mods have done a wonderful job censoring and ensuring that certain 'points' have not escalated this forum into a vile dialogue.
Well done and thank you.
I just hope now, the media will stop plastering Cleo and her families pictures all over the media and let them move and heal in private.

 

[BFew]

Who else wrongly assumed that the accused would have been held in a padded cell right from the start to reduce the risk of him self-harming in such a high profile case?

Although being a small town like Carnarvon, maybe all the padded cells there were occupied when he was first detained.

How the escort of Cleo’s kidnap accused played out

‘Thank God he’s gone.’ That was the reaction of one senior police officer as Terence Darrell Kelly – the man accused of abducting little Cleo Smith – flew out of Carnarvon on Friday.

thewest.com.au

'He had harmed himself twice in his holding cell — bashing his head against the wall — which required two trips to hospital.
A short but belligerent appearance in court, where Mr Kelly abused journalists, was followed by more erratic behaviour in the cell on Thursday night.
This time however, the cell Mr Kelly was being held in was padded.'

 

[Kurve]

Who else wrongly assumed that the accused would have been held in a padded cell right from the start to reduce the risk of him self-harming in such a high profile case?

Although being a small town like Carnarvon, maybe all the padded cells there were occupied when he was first detained.

In a small town, I'm surprised if they had a padded cell.

 

[Kurve]

At about 5.20min on, reports he mimed a gun with his fingers and pointed it towards 9 News. He mimed shooting someone in the court.

 

[BFew]

In a small town, I'm surprised if they had a padded cell.

Maybe depends on the rates of mental illness and propensity of the likely detained to require one, due to factors that would include the demographics of the local population.

Does anywhere in Australia have padded cells that can be assembled at short notice with removable padding to quickly convert a non-padded cell into a padded one?

 

[TheJanuaryMan]

One odd thing about the picture of him sitting in the car with the dolls.

That looks like it is taken with him in the passenger seat rather than the drivers seat.

Does that suggest that someone else was driving him around on these doll trips? If so - who?

I really apologise the photo also has Cleo in it - I couldn't find one with just him in the car.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Terrific work in here Kurve
It really is such a bizzare story.

Someone said they had sympathy for the perp earlier because of some hardships, but what’s coming out is a cold, calculating deceitful man who held a little girl for 17 days while all around him people were beside themselves with distress….indeed the whole country was distressed. This has got nothing to do with a difficult life and everything to do with plain evil. His outbursts in court are violent and if he’s threatening to come after photographers when he gets out how the hell are Cleo and her family ever going to feel safe

If he gets a soft touch on this case a lot of people are going to be very angry.
I’ll say it again… fu** him.

Yes, I tend to agree. Empathy and understanding are valuable traits to possess, but I grew up in a world where there was far greater expectation placed on people to do the right thing. Do the crime, you did the time.

Far too much desire to understand what makes a person behave the way they do when performing anti-social acts. "Why did this man do what he did, was he mistreated as a child, etc?". I'm sorry, but I don't care. He has placed two parents, not to mention an entire community under great stress, and nobody knows if, or how much, this will impact subconsciously on Cleo in her formative years.

As a society, IMHO we are way too soft on crime, a major contributing factor in recidivism. Penalties are way too often not meeting the severity of the crime. It seems we are always way too concerned about the perpetrator. Maybe I'm hard, but I have no sympathy whatsoever. What he did was wrong, and if he doesn't know that already, then he has to learn the hard way.

In my employment, I had cause to spend considerable time in courts of law. What used to fill my mouth with bile was seeing genuine scum turning up to court shaved, washed and in suits, looking as though butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. And to see the slaps on wrists and bags of lollies handed out as punishment was even more distasteful. Start handing out tougher penalties and I promise you, crime would decrease. The criminal element see soft penalties as low risk and they take their chance.

Anyway, rant over. It's just something I feel very strongly about.

 

[RobbyRoy]

In a small town, I'm surprised if they had a padded cell.

Almost certainly no padded cell in Carnarvon.

 

[Collie_wobbles]

Yes, I tend to agree. Empathy and understanding are valuable traits to possess, but I grew up in a world where there was far greater expectation placed on people to do the right thing. Do the crime, you did the time.

Far too much desire to understand what makes a person behave the way they do when performing anti-social acts. "Why did this man do what he did, was he mistreated as a child, etc?". I'm sorry, but I don't care. He has placed two parents, not to mention an entire community under great stress, and nobody knows if, or how much, this will impact subconsciously on Cleo in her formative years.

As a society, IMHO we are way too soft on crime, a major contributing factor in recidivism. Penalties are way too often not meeting the severity of the crime. It seems we are always way too concerned about the perpetrator. Maybe I'm hard, but I have no sympathy whatsoever. What he did was wrong, and if he doesn't know that already, then he has to learn the hard way.

In my employment, I had cause to spend considerable time in courts of law. What used to fill my mouth with bile was seeing genuine scum turning up to court shaved, washed and in suits, looking as though butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. And to see the slaps on wrists and bags of lollies handed out as punishment was even more distasteful. Start handing out tougher penalties and I promise you, crime would decrease. The criminal element see soft penalties as low risk and they take their chance.

Anyway, rant over. It's just something I feel very strongly about.

So well said and yes I totally agree our justice system needs a huge overhaul with more tougher penalties. Sometimes they get off on lenient sentences due to the fact there is no where to place them, the jails are too full. It's time our government focus on building more prison's and amend the law so criminals are sentenced to what they truly deserve for the crime they have committed.

 

[BFew]

One odd thing about the picture of him sitting in the car with the dolls.

That looks like it is taken with him in the passenger seat rather than the drivers seat.

Could it have been a selfie taken in a different country where they drive on the other side of the road?

Or was he just trying to fool ppl into thinking he was a passenger, by appearing to be in the passengers seat, because he did not have a registered car or even a drivers licence ?

 

[BFew]

Almost certainly no padded cell in Carnarvon.

Then were did the padded cell come from that WAPOL reportedly put him in, in Carnarvon on his 2nd day/night? locked up there?

 

[BFew]

It's time our government focus on building more prison's and amend the law so criminals are sentenced to what they truly deserve for the crime they have committed.

If it's anything like virus/disease human quarantine solutions, and hospitalisation in the home, the push will probably be for more home based detention solutions using technology to manage things for a whole lot of criminals that would have previously have either been in a jail or not locked up at all.

 

[MsTeschmacher]

Could it have been a selfie taken in a different country where they drive on the other side of the road?

Or was he just trying to fool ppl into thinking he was a passenger, by appearing to be in the passengers seat, because he did not have a registered car or even a drivers licence ?

Hasn't rotated the selfie camera setting so looks like he's the passenger instead of the driver.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Yes, I tend to agree. Empathy and understanding are valuable traits to possess, but I grew up in a world where there was far greater expectation placed on people to do the right thing. Do the crime, you did the time.

Far too much desire to understand what makes a person behave the way they do when performing anti-social acts. "Why did this man do what he did, was he mistreated as a child, etc?". I'm sorry, but I don't care. He has placed two parents, not to mention an entire community under great stress, and nobody knows if, or how much, this will impact subconsciously on Cleo in her formative years.

As a society, IMHO we are way too soft on crime, a major contributing factor in recidivism. Penalties are way too often not meeting the severity of the crime. It seems we are always way too concerned about the perpetrator. Maybe I'm hard, but I have no sympathy whatsoever. What he did was wrong, and if he doesn't know that already, then he has to learn the hard way.

In my employment, I had cause to spend considerable time in courts of law. What used to fill my mouth with bile was seeing genuine scum turning up to court shaved, washed and in suits, looking as though butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. And to see the slaps on wrists and bags of lollies handed out as punishment was even more distasteful. Start handing out tougher penalties and I promise you, crime would decrease. The criminal element see soft penalties as low risk and they take their chance.

Anyway, rant over. It's just something I feel very strongly about.

I agree on soft sentencing...and lenient bail omg...dont know how some magistrates sleep at night sometimes.

but the perp in this case, I mean this guy is mentally ill, way beyond the current usage of 'mental health issues'.

He is nowhere near a normal functioning adult, and pretty obviously from his online presence, lives in a delusional fantasy world.

Can you see the state being able to demonstrate that he is culpable for his actions?

The Facebook sleuths on here alone have dug up enough for the Defence's psych report imo.

 

[darklake]

Having 2 four year old girls at the moment, it absolutely tugs at the heart strings.
I cannot even imagine what Chloe went through, even if things weren’t of a sexual nature (and I hope like hell they weren’t) no one of that age should have to go through anything like that.

The girl's name is CLEO. NOT Chloe.

 

[Collie_wobbles]

I agree on soft sentencing...and lenient bail omg...dont know how some magistrates sleep at night sometimes.

but the perp in this case, I mean this guy is mentally ill, way beyond the current usage of 'mental health issues'.

He is nowhere near a normal functioning adult, and pretty obviously from his online presence, lives in a delusional fantasy world.

Can you see the state being able to demonstrate that he is culpable for his actions?

The Facebook sleuths on here alone have dug up enough for the Defence's psych report imo.

I started looking at the Facebook trail again last night and the more you look the more you find. I just can't work out how he managed to maintain so many, I'm flat out trying to keep up with this thread at time's...he sure isn't short of a quid and certainly maintained them all so well...I wonder if he was writing an instruction manual each time he created a new profile

 

[Kurve]

I agree on soft sentencing...and lenient bail omg...dont know how some magistrates sleep at night sometimes.

but the perp in this case, I mean this guy is mentally ill, way beyond the current usage of 'mental health issues'.

He is nowhere near a normal functioning adult, and pretty obviously from his online presence, lives in a delusional fantasy world.

Can you see the state being able to demonstrate that he is culpable for his actions?

The Facebook sleuths on here alone have dug up enough for the Defence's psych report imo.

Collecting dolls does nothing to support a defence of insanity - mental impairment or diminished responsibility. In fact if what we've seen put forward as his doll collection, where there's a place for everything in a perfect arrangement, it won't help one bit.

I've been right over this and at this stage, I can't see where a defence might be raised. These weren't the actions of a man who didn't know what he was doing was wrong without the ability to plan and prepare.

Here's some reading anyway, I think this is up to date but even if it's since been tweaked or not followed through on all recommendations, it probably won't make much difference. It provides a good understanding.

https://www.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-04/LRC-Project-097-Final-Report-CH5.pdf