NO TROLLS Aboriginal names for AFL clubs

[Sth Melb Hellas]

Ahhh, look im happy to be proven wrong here but most of the reading ive done on this very clearly atriculates that at a minimum its a very close relation and likely a forefather.

You care to expand on it having zero to do with Aussie Rules?

This is no factual evidence that Australian Rules stemmed from or was created with any influence from marngrook. Mark Pennings and Trevor Ruddell's research shows there is no link, and if you had time and did you own research, you'll also find no link. It's a fanciful story.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Marngrook has ZERO to do with Australian Rules.

You can blame Martin Flanagan for flogging this over the years.

Even if it's not really related, I think both parties would be better off if we linked the two.

Indigenous and non-indigenous people need more shared cultural identity

 

[burge13]

Even if it's not really related, I think both parties would be better off if we linked the two.

Indigenous and non-indigenous people need more shared cultural identity

Why? I dont identify with anything from that culture any more than I do chinese or Indian. People are allowed to have their own culture/interests/whatever without thinking others need to have it

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Why? I dont identify with anything from that culture any more than I do chinese or Indian. People are allowed to have their own culture/interests/whatever without thinking others need to have it

Ok mate

 

[South of the Yarra]

This is no factual evidence that Australian Rules stemmed from or was created with any influence from marngrook. Mark Pennings and Trevor Ruddell's research shows there is no link, and if you had time and did you own research, you'll also find no link. It's a fanciful story.

You may wish to look at deeper research from Poulter, Judd and Hocking. Why did Wills remain silent on the origin of the game? Marngrook was played in Western Victoria on Mukjarrawaint lands. Wills grew up on Lexington and La Rose-Mokepilli stations where Marngrook was played. Johnny Connolly's first-hand accounts places Marngrook in the exact area where Tom grew up. He was clearly a witness to the game. You may want to research a little more on the silencing of Aboriginal history.

 

[Sth Melb Hellas]

Even if it's not really related, I think both parties would be better off if we linked the two.

Indigenous and non-indigenous people need more shared cultural identity

You may wish to look at deeper research from Poulter, Judd and Hocking. Why did Wills remain silent on the origin of the game? Marngrook was played in Western Victoria on Mukjarrawaint lands. Wills grew up on Lexington and La Rose-Mokepilli stations where Marngrook was played. Johnny Connolly's first-hand accounts places Marngrook in the exact area where Tom grew up. He was clearly a witness to the game. You may want to research a little more on the silencing of Aboriginal history.

Yes, I'm quite sure the Tom Wills, that saw his family slaughtered at the hand of the natives would have been overly keen to include a native ball game in the creation of Australian Rules. There's no correspondence from him. The father of the game, HCA Harrison nothing, Hammersley and Co nothing. They were all English rugby school boys and that's where our game comes from.

Read Running With The Ball and discard the seductive myth.

 

[phantom13]

I’d openly admit to not having gone further than the internet to “do my own” research but damn near every link I can find seems pretty adamant that Marngrook was, at the very least, a forefather to what became Aussie rules. I’m quite happy to say that there is not definitive evidence to confirm that was but it seems extremely naive to catagorically state it had nothing at all to do with it.

If nothing else it’s an extremely similar (more so than the scotch v Melbourne) game to Aussie Rules and ignorning that fact looks a lot like more white washing to me.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Yes, I'm quite sure the Tom Wills, that saw his family slaughtered at the hand of the natives would have been overly keen to include a native ball game in the creation of Australian Rules. There's no correspondence from him. The father of the game, HCA Harrison nothing, Hammersley and Co nothing. They were all English rugby school boys and that's where our game comes from.

Read Running With The Ball and discard the seductive myth.

Yes, I am sure he would have been. The Cullin-la-ringo massacre you refer to where 19 'colonists; were killed in revenge for the murder of an Aboriginal man. It should be noted that the Gayiri were hunted to near extinction as a result with 370 slaughtered. You infer that Wills would have nothing to do with Aboriginals after the slaughter, yet he went on to coach Aboriginal cricket teams on his return to Victoria. He had a heavy Aboriginal involvement post Cullin-la-ringo.

 

[Sth Melb Hellas]

I’d openly admit to not having gone further than the internet to “do my own” research but damn near every link I can find seems pretty adamant that Marngrook was, at the very least, a forefather to what became Aussie rules. I’m quite happy to say that there is not definitive evidence to confirm that was but it seems extremely naive to catagorically state it had nothing at all to do with it.

If nothing else it’s an extremely similar (more so than the scotch v Melbourne) game to Aussie Rules and ignorning that fact looks a lot like more white washing to me.

Tom Wills Country or how the legend has taken over

www.footyalmanac.com.au

 

[phantom13]

Tom Wills Country or how the legend has taken over

www.footyalmanac.com.au

Yeh, I mean I could supply about 70 links that note marngrook absolutely is the forefather to Aussie rules. The wiki entry alone on Aussie Rules notes the link between marngrook and Wills. Respectfully this isn’t definitive at all and broadly just about everything is at least willing to at least acknowledge marngrook is VERY similar and absolutely pre dated Aussie Rules.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

What is it that you hate about it?

The need to change stadium names and Club names to appease a certain group of people or have it to appear that its to please certain people. there actually is no reason to do it.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Why?

I answered Chiefs same question as the reasons

 

[Bostonian]

We don't have an indigenous name.

We were named after a man from California.

 

[Chief]

The need to change stadium names and Club names to appease a certain group of people or have it to appear that its to please certain people. there actually is no reason to do it.

Then you'd be shouting about the Footscray/Western Bulldogs name change loudly and often wouldn't you?

Stadium naming rights get your goat?

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Then you'd be shouting about the Footscray/Western Bulldogs name change loudly and often wouldn't you?

Stadium naming rights get your goat?

Footscray/Western bulldogs is irrelevant to this discussion, let me know then in your opinion what's the reasoning behind changing stadium and club names now to those names? and what purpose does it serve.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Footscray/Western bulldogs is irrelevant to this discussion, let me know then in your opinion what's the reasoning behind changing stadium and club names now to those names? and what purpose does it serve.

It serves the purpose of respecting 60,000 years of continuous Aboriginal history. It shows that a lot of clubs want to move forward from a racist past and acknowledge not only a colonial / invader history but also the the incredible Aboriginal history we have.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

It serves the purpose of respecting 60,000 years of continuous Aboriginal history. It shows that a lot of clubs want to move forward from a racist past and acknowledge not only a colonial / invader history but also the the incredible Aboriginal history we have.

So might as well acknowledge them by having only indigenous players able to play the game then would that suffice , I mean how much is to much, i think that lines been crossed for a while now. But changing club names and stadium names that have been created at not the expense of their people to there names is ridiculous.

 

[kickazz]

So might as well acknowledge them by having only indigenous players able to play the game then would that suffice , I mean how much is to much, i think that lines been crossed for a while now. But changing club names and stadium names that have been created at not the expense of their people to there names is ridiculous.

Why don't we go all the way and do XYZ?

How much is too much?

Where is the goddamn LINE?

This all reads like "conservative for the sake of conservative" 101.

It's a slippery slope dude, careful not to fall over.

 

[kickazz]

Maybe there should be trigger warnings at the games. "Indigenous references ahead"

 

[phantom13]

So might as well acknowledge them by having only indigenous players able to play the game then would that suffice , I mean how much is to much, i think that lines been crossed for a while now. But changing club names and stadium names that have been created at not the expense of their people to there names is ridiculous.

You think that a handful of clubs changing their name for a few weeks of the year and wearing an indigenous jumper is too much.

Wow.

How’s your works RAP going? Cause that might break your brain.

 

[Chief]

Footscray/Western bulldogs is irrelevant to this discussion,

No it isn't.

let me know then in your opinion what's the reasoning behind changing stadium and club names now to those names? and what purpose does it serve.

I like it. Apparently that's enough?

 

[South of the Yarra]

So might as well acknowledge them by having only indigenous players able to play the game then would that suffice , I mean how much is to much, i think that lines been crossed for a while now. But changing club names and stadium names that have been created at not the expense of their people to there names is ridiculous.

Oh my. I think you need some support around Aboriginal education. The line has been crossed lol. What is that line? The majority of people find it respectful, the others, well we will leave that.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Most people voting no, typical result for a racist country.

 

[Sth Melb Hellas]

Yeh, I mean I could supply about 70 links that note marngrook absolutely is the forefather to Aussie rules. The wiki entry alone on Aussie Rules notes the link between marngrook and Wills. Respectfully this isn’t definitive at all and broadly just about everything is at least willing to at least acknowledge marngrook is VERY similar and absolutely pre dated Aussie Rules.

Did you read the article supplied?

List those 70 articles.

Let me guess, Dark Emu is your favourite book.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Did you read the article supplied?

List those 70 articles.

Let me guess, Dark Emu is your favourite book.

Let me guess Andrew Bolt is your favourite opinion piece writer.